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All Forums > Classic Cars > Ferrari 330/P4 replica > Post Reply
Post #1 Sat, Aug 9, 1:00 AM
ajzahn
Posts - 62717

colour Rosso Corsa
interior colour Rosso
drive RHD
type Cabrio / Roadster
year 1967
price P.O.R.
VAT No
country United Kingdom


Ferrari Sports Prototype

Built around the chassis of a 1967 Ferrari 330 GTS and rebodied in the style of the iconic 330/P4 prototype racing car of the sixties. Powered by recently rebuilt all aluminium 2.4 litre Ferrari Dino engine, and 5 speed gearbox. Exciting to look at and drive but at a fraction of the price of a real P4.

The interior is finished in authentic red leather with up to date Sabelt racing harnesses. Sitting on gold Cromodora original type wheels and Dunlop tyres, with disc brakes all round this car is a real head turner.

The car has been completely overhauled three years ago and is fully road legal, with current MOT and is of Historic Vehicle Road Tax classification. Complete with a large amount of bills and receipts for work carried out.


>>> www.classicdriver.com/uk/find/4100_results.asp?lCarID=1768617


Edited by ajzahn - Sat, Aug 9, 6:37 PM
Post #2 Tue, Aug 19, 1:18 AM
ajzahn
Posts - 62717

Faking supercars?

The face of auto manufacturing and retailing is changing fast--thanks to counterfeiters
By FREDERICK W. MOSTERT

In an unglamorous garage in London stands a fake 1967 Ferrari P4. The P4, Ferrari experts assure me, is one of the most beautiful Ferraris ever, with all of its curves in the right places. It also is one of the most expensive models in the Ferrari stable (estimated value: $15 million). Only three were ever made, but I own No. 4.

Fakes are my specialty. In the course of my work, I managed to meet with New York police commissioner Raymond Kelly, President Manuel Barroso of the European Union and high-kick wizard Jackie Chan. On each occasion, I dressed to impress: Armani suit, Alfred Dunhill shirt, Versace tie, Ferragamo belt, Louis Vuitton shoes, Givenchy socks. The commissioner wanted to arrest me, the president thought I was certifiable and Chan tore my outfit to shreds kung-fu-style and left me facing the press in my underpants. My entire ensemble was fake, and these gentlemen do not take kindly to counterfeits. Neither do I.

For the last 20 years, my job as an intellectual property lawyer has taken me from Paraguay's Ciudad del Este to Guangdong Province in China to Manhattan's Canal Street as I search for pirates of counterfeit goods.

Counterfeits often are associated with shady street vendors peddling imperfect copies. But in the last 18 months, I have witnessed a paradigm shift in the manufacturing of fakes. It is still only a ripple, but is set to become a tsunami. It will change the face of manufacturing and retailing, and it is fueled by a leap in technological engineering.

The story begins with the curvaceous Ferrari. I first learned of the car's existence after our investigators were tipped off during a counterfeit-watch investigation in central Thailand. Instead of timepieces, they found fake Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Lotuses. "Hogwash," I told the lead investigator when I got the report. Counterfeit supercars? Not possible. Their pride at stake, they returned to the workshop in the dead of night and sneaked a series of eye-popping pictures, which they sent to me in London.

I was intrigued. As a gearhead, I felt bound to broaden the scope of the investigation and asked the investigators to try to track down other cases. They found a factory in northeast China, which claimed to produce modern sports cars. Could they manufacture me a Mercedes-Benz SLR, I asked, even though it was not listed in their full-picture catalog? Within three days, I received a reply: No problem. I decided to raise the bar. How about a Maybach? The answer came back two days later by way of a question: Would I like a long or a short wheelbase?

But here's the problem with these fake cars: The gas tank could explode, the brakes might fail, the steering wheel is rickety, and, I am sad to report, the famous Ferrari red on my P4 is starting to peel. (By the way, I should make it clear that conscience keeps me from driving it, as well as the certain knowledge that my boss would kill me should I give in to the temptation of taking it for a spin.)

So, why has there been such a sudden surge and vast proliferation of almost copy-perfect fakes in the last 18 months?

First, there are two types of counterfeits. At the bottom of the pile, you find "genuine fakes." We are talking about the knock-off luxury watch, which, until recently, was sold on the street corners of New York, Milan and Hong Kong. Genuine fakes typically are made and sold by mom-and-pop enterprises. Both seller and buyer know the product is fake. A $20 Rolex? Yeah, right.

But a whole new wave of second-generation counterfeits has emerged: "digital fakes." The advent of digital technology has made perfect copies possible by the touch of a button on a keyboard. Never has copying been so easy, so quick and at such a high level. Digital fakes are immaculate in their appearance. Their packaging is superb and typically includes warranty cards of such high standard that they fool experts. Only upon closer scientific testing can the differences be distinguished between original and imitation.

LAT Photographic

The real Ferrari P4, driven in the 1967 Daytona 24 Hours by Mike Parkes and Ludovico Scarfiotti.
I first came across this new way of producing fakes about a year ago, during a raid on a factory in southern China. In the midst of all the commotion--raids are noisy and disorganized and happen really fast--I spotted, quite by chance, a stack of innocuous-looking software disks. After analyzing them, we discovered that the counterfeiters had made smart use of digital technology and laser scanners to reverse-engineer highly complicated mechanical watches.

I was so fascinated by this ingenious use of technology that I visited Minolta's laser-scanner labs after my return home. I will never forget the moment I was invited to remove my watch from my wrist and place it on the laser-scanner turnstile. Within five minutes, eerily, a picture-perfect 3-D digital version of the outside contours of my watch was produced: the ultimate, undetectable copy.

Armed with this knowledge, our investigators in Hong Kong tracked and traced the sources of the software-not to China, surprisingly, but to Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong. The crime syndicates in these locations are "outsourcing" their counterfeit manufacturing to the less expensive labor markets of China, Vietnam and Thailand.

And Asia should not be singled out. Organized-crime groups in other parts of the globe also have joined the digital-fake revolution. Not just pharmaceutical and luxury goods but every product known to mankind, including supercars, can be and is being perfectly copied. This is sure to have profound implications for many industries, including automobile manufacturing, in the future.

Buyer beware, indeed. (Autoweek)

Post #3 Fri, Sep 5, 2:19 PM
P4Registrar
Senior Member - 185

Damn, Axel. You're on the ball (as always).

My two worst 'nightmares' in one thread. LOL !!

Let me go and have a coffee and a cigarette, and I'll try to explain.

The Truth is out there .... (along with about 150 'missing' Noble P4 replicas) Yeh ... right Lee. ;)

Post #4 Fri, Sep 5, 3:18 PM
P4Registrar
Senior Member - 185

O.K. Where do I start ? Let's start with a simple statement.

Both cars referred to in your posts #1 and #3 are Noble P4 replicas. As in replicas built from kits supplied by Lee Noble (Motorsport) of Leicester, England, back in the late 1980's and early 90's. Trust me on this. I know my P4 replicas.

Admittedly, they are from opposite ends of the spectrum, appearance-wise, and described rather differently, but BOTH are definately Noble P4 replicas.

The link, from a 'Classic Driver' web advert, and photos that you posted in #1 are still live on the 'Net (at the time of writing):

http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/find/4100_results.asp?lCarID=1768617

The 'Classic Driver' advert was placed by Speedmaster Cars of Bradford, England at the beginning of August.

Here is a link to their own online advert (now suitably amended) as it appeared on their website:

http://www.speedmastercars.com/car_detail.cfm?PartNo=792DCB96-D613-F54B-A222EF346C3760BA&catID=2

If you check the wording of the description in the two adverts, you'll notice a subtle difference:

Classic Driver:
Built around the chassis of a 1967 Ferrari 330 GTS and rebodied in the style of the iconic 330/P4 prototype racing car of the sixties. Powered by recently rebuilt all aluminium 2.4 litre Ferrari Dino engine, and 5 speed gearbox. Exciting to look at and drive but at a fraction of the price of a real P4.

Speedmaster:
Built in the style of the iconic 330/P4 prototype racing car of the sixties, and powered by recently rebuilt all aluminium 2.4 litre Ferrari Dino engine, and 5 speed gearbox. Exciting to look at and drive but at a fraction of the price of a real P4.

This car is NOT rebodied (other than it had some remoulding of the rear bodywork, into a proper spyder tail, done in a previous ownership). Nor is it based on the chassis of a 1967 Ferrari 330GTS. It is built (quite conventionally for such a kit-built vehicle) on a Noble square-tube spaceframe chassis. It is Noble P4 chassis # 023, in fact. However, the car's current owner somehow illegally obtained the registration documents for a 1967 Ferrari 330GTS, and used these, together with that car's last-issued UK (1967 age-related) licence plate number (prior to export) to register the car in England. Other than that, this Noble P4 replica has no connection whatsoever with that 1967 Ferrari 330GTS (chassis # 9699), which incidentally still exists today in Germany.

You may notice that the Speedmaster advert no longer appears in the 'Heritage Cars' section of their website. The (archived) link I gave above shows the car not as £P.O.R., but £SOLD. In truth, the car was not sold, but was actually WITHDRAWN from sale by Speedmaster, after 'pressure had been bought to bear' on them, by a representative of Ferrari GB's Classiche department. Once they had been made aware of this car's true origins, Speedmaster probably also realised that the misleading wording of their advertisement's description was effectively tantamount to Fraud. Hence the subtle change, deleting the offending wording.

There are some other photos of this otherwise very pretty #23 Noble P4 replica to be found here in a Flickr 'P4 Replica' gallery:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/p4replica/pool/page2/

The Truth is out there .... (along with about 150 'missing' Noble P4 replicas) Yeh ... right Lee. ;)


Edited by P4Registrar - Fri, Sep 5, 4:32 PM
Post #5 Fri, Sep 5, 3:53 PM
P4Registrar
Senior Member - 185

There's a saying that I'm sure you're aware of, Axel: 'Publish and be damned'.

Well, I for one am rather disappointed in you for having published that load of garbage in post #3.

The article was originally published in Autoweek, issue 18-08-2008, and also online.

Here are a few of the photos of the Noble P4 in question, from the online version of that article:

The Truth is out there .... (along with about 150 'missing' Noble P4 replicas) Yeh ... right Lee. ;)

Post #6 Fri, Sep 5, 4:08 PM
P4Registrar
Senior Member - 185

That article, recently published in Autoweek, is a (poor) 'copy and paste' re-hash of an earlier, longer, article by Frederick Mostert, which appeared in Cigar Aficionado magazine, back in March / April of this year. Autoweek took a LOT of negative feedback for allowing themselves to be scammed (no other word for it) into running Mostert's B/S 'Faking Supercars?' article.

I'm not going to go into the details, because it's all been said before on FerrariChat.

If you're interested, check out these two threads:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209811

and this older one (with far more detail) from page 4 onwards:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187683&page=4

The car that Mostert is using to 'sensationalize' his anti-counterfeiting campaign is NOT a 'Fake Ferrari' made in China; Thailand, nor anywhere else in the Far East (he keeps changing his story).

It is a 'late model' Noble P4 replica, powered by a Subaru Flat-4 motor, and a pretty ropey example of the marque.
Unfortunately, Frederick Mostert's false claims, which he makes for the origins of 'his' car, are also tantamount to Fraud.

The Truth is out there .... (along with about 150 'missing' Noble P4 replicas) Yeh ... right Lee. ;)


Edited by P4Registrar - Fri, Sep 5, 4:24 PM
Post #7 Tue, Feb 22, 10:36 PM
sx4life
New User - 30

really a hot ride..
Post #8 Wed, Feb 23, 3:27 AM
Tipo F130A
Supercar Messiah - 9883

This thread is out of control.
‘It is very hard, noisy and mechanical, but unerringly honest and communicative,’ says Vivian, before declaring it ‘a proper, hairy-balled supercar’.

GT/PSN: TipoF130

Post #9 Wed, Feb 23, 4:12 AM
numbers
Secret Santas - 15614

haha
Don't post people's personal info and pictures, thanks - admin

christofurr owes me $20

"I suck." - Walperstyle

Post #10 Wed, Nov 16, 5:45 PM
mikeyp1011
New User - 1

really nice looking car
Post #11 Fri, Apr 27, 8:18 PM
numbers
Secret Santas - 15614

This, is, F1
Don't post people's personal info and pictures, thanks - admin

christofurr owes me $20

"I suck." - Walperstyle

Post #12 Sun, Apr 29, 6:26 PM
Veyronman
Hours wasted - 99363

lol
fat chicks have very warm and wet vaginas, from my experience

what's kraftwerk? A firm specialized with something related to protection of animals or training dogs?

Post #13 Tue, May 15, 11:51 AM
aleixpaum
New User - 10

what a shame...
Post #14 Tue, Nov 20, 2:26 PM
VF1Skullangel
New User - 12

Thats a damn well built replica!
Posted: Today
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Posted: Today
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