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All Forums > Boats, Planes, Other > Dreamliner grounded > Post Reply
Post #1 Thu, Jan 17, 12:38 AM
CitroenSM
Foose fan - 37977

Quote from cnn.com;

U.S., Japan ground Dreamliners over fire risk
By Aaron Cooper, CNN
January 17, 2013 -- Updated 0354 GMT (1154 HKT)

Washington (CNN) -- U.S. and Japanese authorities have ordered airlines to stop flying their Boeing 787s until they can show they've fixed a fire risk linked to battery failures aboard the closely watched Dreamliners.

The moves by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration and the Japanese government follow an emergency landing in Japan that prompted that country's two major airlines to ground their fleets of 787s, and a similar problem aboard a Dreamliner on the ground in Boston nine days earlier.

"The battery failures resulted in release of flammable electrolytes, heat damage, and smoke on two Model 787 airplanes," the FAA announced Wednesday evening. "The root cause of these failures is currently under investigation. These conditions, if not corrected, could result in damage to critical systems and structures, and the potential for fire in the electrical compartment."

The only U.S. carrier to operate the eagerly awaited, long-delayed jetliner is United Airlines, which said earlier Wednesday that it had inspected its fleet of six 787s and would continue flying them. United spokeswoman Christen David said Wednesday evening that the airline would comply with the order "and will work closely with the FAA and Boeing on the technical review."

The FAA noted that its directive also signals international aviation authorities to take "parallel action" regarding their own airlines.

The first commercial Dreamliner flight took off in October 2011, flying from Tokyo to Hong Kong, and the planes flew without major problems for more than a year.

Since July, the growing list of reported troubles aboard the planes include a fuel leak, an oil leak, two cracked engines, a damaged cockpit window and a battery problem. The FAA announced a safety review of the aircraft last week.

In the most serious incident so far, an All Nippon Airlines (ANA) 787 with 129 people aboard made an emergency landing after a battery alarm Wednesday morning. Those on board reported a burning smell in the cabin, and an alarm indicated smoke in a forward electrical compartment.

Hours later, ANA and Japan Airlines announced that they were grounding their Dreamliners pending an investigation.

And on Thursday, the Japanese government ordered that all 787s be kept out of service until battery safety could be assured.

A maintenance worker discovered an electrical fire aboard an empty Japan Airlines 787 slated for departure from Logan International Airport in Boston on January 7.

In a statement released Wednesday night, Boeing Chairman, President and CEO Jim McNerney said the company is confident that the planes are safe and is working with authorities to get them flying again.

"Boeing is committed to supporting the FAA and finding answers as quickly as possible. The company is working around the clock with its customers and the various regulatory and investigative authorities. We will make available the entire resources of The Boeing Company to assist," the statement said. "We are confident the 787 is safe and we stand behind its overall integrity. We will be taking every necessary step in the coming days to assure our customers and the traveling public of the 787's safety and to return the airplanes to service."

McNerney's statement Wednesday did not mention specifics about the recent incidents, but said the company "deeply regrets the impact that recent events have had on the operating schedules of our customers and the inconvenience to them and their passengers."

Boeing has delivered 50 Dreamliners so far and has more than 800 additional orders for the aircraft from airlines around the world.

On Wednesday night, Chile-based LAN Airlines said it was temporarily grounding its three Boeing 787 aircraft in compliance with the FAA's recommendation.

Boeing's shares -- which had previously been resilient in the face of this month's negative publicity over the Dreamliner -- sank 2% in after-hours trading Wednesday, after falling 3.4% during the trading day.

After last week's incident in Boston, Boeing chief engineer Mike Sinnett expressed confidence in the aircraft's battery system.

"I am 100% convinced the airplane is safe to fly," he said. "I fly on it all the time."

Asked last week whether he would consider grounding the jets, FAA Administrator Michael Huerta said there was "nothing in the data" that suggested the Dreamliner was unsafe.

Longtime commercial pilot and industry analyst Patrick Smith said the battery issue did not appear to be a major problem, but called the FAA order "a positive and pro-active step."

"I don't think that it was dangerous for the plane to be flying, but it probably wasn't the best thing to be flying it on the heels of this latest emergency landing in Japan," Smith said.

"All airplanes have their teething problems, and this was trending in a bad direction," he added. "Now the authorities have said, 'Stop,' and that's a good thing."

"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" - Sir Stirling Moss
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Post #2 Thu, Jan 17, 1:29 AM
CitroenSM
Foose fan - 37977

Quote from Boeing.com;


Boeing Statement on Federal Aviation Administration 787 Action

CHICAGO, Jan. 16, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing Chairman, President and CEO Jim McNerney issued the following statement today after the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) issued an emergency airworthiness directive that requires U.S. 787 operators to temporarily cease operations and recommends other regulatory agencies to follow suit:

"The safety of passengers and crew members who fly aboard Boeing airplanes is our highest priority.

"Boeing is committed to supporting the FAA and finding answers as quickly as possible. The company is working around the clock with its customers and the various regulatory and investigative authorities. We will make available the entire resources of The Boeing Company to assist.

"We are confident the 787 is safe and we stand behind its overall integrity. We will be taking every necessary step in the coming days to assure our customers and the traveling public of the 787's safety and to return the airplanes to service.

"Boeing deeply regrets the impact that recent events have had on the operating schedules of our customers and the inconvenience to them and their passengers."

Contact:
John Dern
Boeing Corporate Offices
312-544-2002

Marc Birtel
Boeing Commercial Airplanes
425-266-5822

SOURCE Boeing

"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" - Sir Stirling Moss
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Post #3 Thu, Jan 17, 6:28 AM
CitroenSM
Foose fan - 37977

Quote from cnn.com;

Dreamliner battery problems worry experts most
By Thom Patterson, CNN
January 17, 2013 -- Updated 0014 GMT (0814 HKT)

CNN) -- Mechanical problems aboard Boeing's new Dreamliner 787 airliner seem to be happening far too often for some. Fliers are concerned.

"They transport people, you, me, our loved ones... I think some of the strategies (how fast they are built and how thoroughly they are tested) should be more carefully examined," wrote CNN.com commenter disqus_L4S9enTRgr.

The Federal Aviation Administration is worried, too. On Wednesday, the FAA announced plans to ground U.S.-registered Dreamliners until they pass an emergency airworthiness inspection addressing the potential risk of battery fire.

Since September, the growing list of reported troubles aboard the Dreamliner include a fuel leak, an oil leak, two cracked engines, a damaged cockpit window and a battery problem.

FAA grounds Dreamliners

In the most serious incident so far, a battery alarm prompted an emergency landing in Japan Wednesday of an ANA 787 carrying 129 passengers.

Those on board reported a burning smell in the cabin, officials said, and the alarm indicated smoke in a forward electrical compartment. A few hours later, ANA and JAL airlines announced it was grounding its Dreamliners pending an investigation.

The incident comes about a week after the FAA announced a broad safety review of the aircraft.

Related: Japan carriers ground 787s

Consumer concerns are legitimate and understandable, say airline safety and engineering experts. Most of the troubles are relatively minor.

However, they say, if the Dreamliner has a battery system design problem, that would raise larger concerns.

Lithium ion batteries

"Any time you've got smoke or fire or odor of smoke and fire on an aircraft, that's a very serious situation," says Kevin Hiatt, veteran airline pilot and head of the Flight Safety Foundation. "You've got very little time to get an aircraft on the ground safely if something like that occurs in flight."

The batteries are critical to the plane because the 787 is thirsty for electrical power. The Dreamliner uses electricity to run more systems than any other Boeing airliner, says University of Dayton professor Raul Ordonez, an aircraft electrical and computer engineer who spent time observing Dreamliner development at Boeing's Seattle headquarters.

It takes lots of battery power to run electricity through those systems.

The 787 is unique because its batteries are lithium ion batteries. The batteries hold more energy for longer periods than the standard nickel cadmium airliner batteries. "These kinds of batteries," Ordonez says, "are slightly more likely to cause problems."

It's unclear whether the Dreamliner battery trouble in Japan was a charging problem or a battery overheating problem, says John Goglia, an ex-airline mechanic and former member of the nation's top aviation investigation agency, the National Transportation Safety Board. A charging problem wouldn't require an immediate landing, "but if I had a battery overheating -- given the history -- I'd be looking for the nearest place to put my butt on the ground."

Cracked engines and windshields, oil and fuel leaks

Other problems linked to Dreamliner -- such as oil and fuel leaks or damaged cockpit windows -- are operational issues that occur aboard "every airliner out there flying today," says Hiatt. "It just so happens that this aircraft is under such intense scrutiny."

For an oil leak in flight, a pilot responds depending on how much oil is leaking. "If it's a problem, you've got procedures to either put the engine in idle and land the aircraft or continue and monitor the amount of oil on board until you reach your destination."

"Fuel leaks -- whether they happen in the wing or near the engine or near the fuel tank area, those happen every day."

When mechanical problems occur, pilots rely on what's known as the Quick Reference Handbook -- an electronic checklist for troubleshooting.

"One guy flies while the other guy fixes, and then you make a decision," says Justin Schlechter, a 13-year airline pilot.

Schlechter remembers a problem aboard his aircraft in 2004 when a passenger looking out a window discovered a minor fuel leak near the wing. After referring to the checklist, Schlechter diverted the airliner and landed in nearby Richmond, Virginia, as a precaution.

Another time, a crack appeared in Schlechter's cockpit windshield. "It was a complete non-event," he says. The flight continued to its scheduled destination.

"Windshields crack all the time," says Gogila. Measuring inches thick and multilayered, airliner windshields are designed to take a beating from weather and the occasional bird.

The reports of cracked engines on Dreamliners in 2012 were likely isolated incidents, Ordonez says. As for random window cracks and fuel and oil leaks, Boeing can solve these kinds of troubles without much problem, he says. The focus, most everyone agrees, will be on the batteries.

The situation may prompt Boeing to do some additional testing to gain more trust for the Dreamliner among both airline companies and passengers. Worldwide, Dreamliners fly 150 flights daily, Boeing said last week. Chief engineer Mike Sinnett expressed confidence in the battery system. "I am 100% convinced the airplane is safe to fly. I fly on it all the time."

American travelers may wonder whether United Airlines -- the only U.S. carrier currently flying Dreamliners -- should follow Japan and ground its own 787 fleet. United -- which owns six Dreamliners -- said Wednesday it has inspected its fleet and will continue flying.

Hiatt says he doesn't necessarily see United grounding its fleet as the next step. "United has great procedures and policies and I'm sure they're watching the situation in Japan. That's up to United to make that decision."

"I still would get on the airplane," Hiatt says. It may be the most watched airliner in the world now. "That airplane is being looked at so closely both before and after every flight that it borders on the ridiculous."

"Now, I guess people should be a little concerned," says Ordonez. "And I hope that Boeing will take very decisive action and deal with this problem and make sure everybody's convinced it won't happen again." But bottom line, he says, "I'd fly it."

"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" - Sir Stirling Moss
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Post #4 Thu, Jan 17, 5:07 PM
CrystalBaller
Supercar Messiah - 36810

More like nightmare liner hahaha
Founding Member of the screaming Chicken Faction.

Is it a bird ... is it a plane ... no, it's Superbaby! -fump

Post #5 Fri, Jan 18, 3:23 AM
RLQ
new member - 71621

American quality.
"People who own guns but don't support abortion don't matter anyway because their penises are so small that they can't even get a girl pregnant." SupraMan

Post #6 Sat, Jan 19, 5:26 AM
Porsche addict
Supercar Messiah - 58132

Quote from RLQ
American quality.

sixspeedfirebird & Porsche Addict: members of the "Boxy Volvos suck and the F50 kicks the F40's ass" club.

beavis and butthead once transplanted a tattoo of a butt with a butt-shaped tattoo on it, and they transplanted it right on buttheads butt.

Post #7 Mon, Jan 21, 11:40 PM
CrystalBaller
Supercar Messiah - 36810

Quote from Porsche addict
do americns make lo quality aircraft
Founding Member of the screaming Chicken Faction.

Is it a bird ... is it a plane ... no, it's Superbaby! -fump

Post #8 Tue, Jan 22, 9:43 AM
CitroenSM
Foose fan - 37977

Quote from cnn.com;

Quick fix for Dreamliner looks less likely, experts say
By Melissa Gray and Thom Patterson, CNN
January 21, 2013 -- Updated 1454 GMT (2254 HKT)

(CNN) -- As the mystery deepened surrounding the new 787 Dreamliner battery system, U.S. transportation investigators were set to oversee more tests aimed at determining the cause of a fire central to the grounding of the Boeing jetliners.

The National Transportation Safety Board said the next round of testing was planned for Tuesday in Arizona.

Earlier tests conducted in Washington showed that a lithium-ion battery that caught fire aboard an empty Japan Airlines 787 in Boston this month was not overcharged, the board said on Sunday.

Dreamliner fix: 'It's not easy'

That determination ruled out one relatively simple explanation, potentially making the broader investigation more challenging and dragging out problems for the world's biggest aircraft manufacturer as well as the airlines globally that fly the technologically advanced wide body.

The Boston fire and a subsequent incident involving a battery alarm and a report of a burning smell on another 787 that made an emergency landing in Japan prompted the Federal Aviation Administration and other safety agencies globally to ground the Dreamliner last week.

The stakes for quickly and decisively figuring out what is wrong with the Dreamliner are enormous for Boeing, which has placed a huge commercial bet on the aircraft's success.

Only 50 have flown since the model entered service in 2012, but the manufacturer struggled for years to bring it on line and has several hundred orders in the pipeline.

The $200 million planes, including six flown by United Airlines, are grounded until the manufacturer can demonstrate that the problem is fixed and the plane safe to fly.

The Boston and Japan incidents were among a series of mechanical and other Dreamliner glitches that have been reported since it entered service.

Sunday's NTSB announcement "doesn't bode as well for a quick fix as Boeing would have liked," said John Goglia, a former member of the safety board, which investigates aviation and other transportation accidents.

"It's one step in the process. It's not great news, but it's not bad news either," Goglia said.

Mary Schiavo, a former U.S. Transportation Department inspector general who remains outspoken on aviation safety as a lawyer in private practice, agreed with Goglia.

"It does not sound like a quick resolution is in store for Boeing," the former watchdog said.

The main investigation, which also involves the FAA and Boeing, focuses on the 787's cutting-edge lithium ion battery system that powers the plane's auxiliary power unit. The APU, for instance, powers the plane's systems when the engines are idle.

The batteries in question are manufactured by Japan's GS Yuasa, under a subcontract to France-based Thales, Boeing said. But other companies, such as units of United Technologies and other vendors, contribute to the plane's extensive electrical system.

Officials from Japan's Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism Ministry and the FAA conducted a site inspection of GS Yuasa's headquarters in Kyoto, Japan, on Monday and Tuesday, said Yasuo Ishii of Japan's Civil Aviation Bureau. The inspections are expected to last several days, Ishii said.

GS Yuasa said it is "fully cooperating in the investigation to determine the cause" of the problem but "could not comment on the details" of the inspection.

The investigation aims to identify the problem. It will be up to Boeing and its partners to figure out a remedy satisfactory to the FAA.

The next step for the safety board will occur on Tuesday in Tucson, Arizona, where the battery charger and power starter unit will be tested and relevant data downloaded. Testing on other components will be conducted by various manufacturers.

CNNMoney: The battery that grounded Boeing

The examination of data from the Boston 787 indicated its APU battery did not appear to be overcharged by exceeding its designed voltage of 32 volts, according to Sunday's NTSB statement. But experts pointed out to CNN that there was no mention in the statement about how quickly the JAL 787 battery was discharging.

Discharging the battery too quickly, or with too low voltage, can also cause it to overheat, said University of Dayton professor Raul Ordonez, an aircraft electrical and computer engineer who spent time observing Dreamliner development at Boeing's Seattle headquarters.

Investigators in Washington have taken X-rays and CT scans of the lithium-ion battery that caught fire in Boston, the safety board said. They have also dismantled the battery and examined some of its individual cells.

The agency said it has also examined several other components from the plane, including wire bundles and battery management circuit boards.

"The fact that the NTSB is basically looking at every component around the battery, including the computer hardware and the (memory) software, means that they have no idea yet about a culprit and (they) suspect everything," Ordonez said.

Whatever the fix, Schiavo said any changes other than minor will require at least some re-engineering which will in turn require FAA approval. Both of those can result in a "slow process taking months, depending on the extent of engineering changes."

Boeing is using the lithium-ion batteries to electronically assist some of the functions that were previously performed using hydraulics. A lighter plane is more fuel efficient, which is one of the 787's main selling points.

There is no need to drain lithium-ion batteries fully before recharging, meaning less maintenance, though they can catch fire if overcharged.

CNNMoney: Dreamliner parts come from all over the world

Airbus uses lithium-ion batteries to power some systems aboard its A350 airliners. A spokeswoman said in a statement to CNN that Airbus "will carefully study any recommendations that come out of the 787 investigation and evaluate whether they apply to the A350 XWB," a new airliner still being developed by Airbus.

"Boeing was very, very lucky there was no catastrophic event," said Schiavo. "But, the luckiest of all is Airbus ... now they can make the fixes [to the A350 XWB] without the public relations hit Boeing has taken."

Boeing said Friday it will not deliver any Dreamliners to its customers as it works with the FAA over the battery concerns.

"We need to get the bottom of this," said Goglia. "We need to get comfortable with flying these airplanes again."

CNN's Aaron Cooper and Junko Ogura contributed to this report.

Read more : http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/21/travel/boeing-dreamliner/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" - Sir Stirling Moss
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Post #9 Fri, Jan 25, 8:50 PM
broken
Supercar Messiah - 15295

Again, all purchasers know the probability of airworthiness directives being issued on newly certified aircraft.
Post #10 Sat, Jan 26, 2:16 PM
Vanilla Ice
Supercar Messiah - 12426

Airbus and Bombardier are basically getting a free-ride on this one.
Posted: Today
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Posted: Today
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