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All Forums > 2005 Mosler MT900 S > Who says Americans can't build exotic supercars. > Post Reply
Post #1 Tue, Dec 17, 11:30 AM
SSwannabe
Member - 264

 In the January 2003 issue of Road and Track, they tested a Mosler MT900. First of all, SC.net made a couple errors. This car has 435hp coming out of a Z06 engine. Not 345hp. This car also weights 900kg's/1980lbs. Not 1089kg/2401lb. R&T says, "Mosler exhibits loads of grip" and "big brakes work well on the road," This car is amazing. Not to mention with the LS6 V8, you'll definately be able to make it even more powerful. And I don't wanna hear the crap "well its just a gas guzzling V8" Its the same engine as the Z06. The Z06 gets 19 mpg in city and 28 mpg on highway. If thats guzzling gas to you, then what are you driving? An Echo? Even though this car is meant for serious road and track use, it still has air conditioning and stereo and CD player. And still only weights 1980 lbs. What a car!
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Post #2 Sat, Dec 21, 6:29 PM
Gunman
Supercar Messiah - 2819

 Actually SC.net is correct, for the MT900 that is pictured. The silver prototype had a stock 345hp LS1, and weighed 2650lbs. The yellow MT900S that R&T tested was the special "Photon" edition, which like all new MT900S's, has the LS6, plus it has titanium springs, thinner wall subframes, and a few other "low fat" items to bring the weight down to 1980lbs.
Post #3 Wed, Jan 1, 9:56 PM
Prince Of Eternia
Senior Member - 170

 I'd stop well short of calling this car an 'exotic supercar' only because the engineering doesn't offer anything exotic. It used a pushrod activated engine for gods sake! Fast car? no worries, performance car? for sure but supercar? A supercar is supposed to be the embodiement of a rare, hyper-engineered car with technology and manufactoring process far removed from those of lesser, affordable cars.

The Porsche carrera GT and Ferrari Enzo are new 'Supercars' (to name but two examples).
Post #4 Thu, Jan 2, 8:32 AM
khari
Supercar Messi - 6761

 The car is an endurance racer, so it needed a dependable engine, and the Ls6 is just that. It's light and compact (for its output), gets nominal fuel milage (important in endurance), and is proven to be reliable. IMO the Ls6 is better engineered than a lot of the "high tech" engines people always talk about.

Engineering isn't just the engine, and that's what they focused on. The Photon weighs just 1980lbs, and even has an AC and cd player. There are very few cars that can claim as much. I don't think any lesser, affordable cars use a carbon fibre monocoque as their primary stucture.

So what you're saying is all that's keeping the Mt900 from being an exotic supercar is the engine? Even though it does its job VERY well?
Post #5 Thu, Jan 23, 5:51 PM
DrunkDriver
Member - 175

 i say they cant they build lil shit box cars
Post #6 Mon, Jan 27, 7:45 PM
Vette1
Supercar Messiah - 1684

 Go to Mosler's website, you can see for yourself...
Post #7 Mon, Jan 27, 9:51 PM
khari
Supercar Messi - 6761

 Thanks for proving me wrong, that was simply an amazing post. I can simply marvel at your incredible understanding and godly logic.


sigh
Post #8 Wed, Jan 29, 8:11 PM
the supercar specialist
New Member - 3

 cool interior on this car aswell,who design the car and Interior?
Post #9 Fri, Jan 31, 8:19 PM
Gunman
Supercar Messiah - 2819

 Rod Trenne did the exterior styling. Andy Harrison did the interior on the original silver prototype. I am doing the production dash, center console, and am currently working on the production door panels (almost ready to cnc the molds). I also did the new rear fascia (only seen on the latest burgandy streetcar, and 2 of the 4 racecars running at Daytona).
Post #10 Sat, Feb 1, 1:45 PM
Vette1
Supercar Messiah - 1684

 You are doing?
Post #11 Sat, Feb 1, 8:18 PM
Gunman
Supercar Messiah - 2819

 I am doing. The interior is all CAD designed(thats my job), then we cnc cut the molds(I do some of the programming), and make the pieces out of carbon fibre (or fibre glass).
Post #12 Sun, Feb 2, 3:19 PM
khari
Supercar Messi - 6761

 I wouldn't mind doing that for a living
Post #13 Mon, Aug 25, 7:35 AM
vette 67 427 435
Member - 95

 hahahahaha, bitter punk. He's so pissed because the increadible AMERICAN engineers could make an engine that is more reliable than a ferrari V-12, and then put in a car that is faster than a ferrari. sorry!!! Z06 all the way!!!!
1967 corvette- 427 cu. in., 435 hp. BIG BLOCK!!!!!
Post #14 Fri, Sep 5, 6:42 AM
Ozzzman
Senior Member - 374

 Americans can build supercars, but mostly they are different from Euro ones in a lot of ways. But apparently the Americans wanted it to look like a European car. Look at it, it looks exactly like the McLaren F1. But still the McLaren looks better.
Not many standard 1100cc road cars match the performance of my car:

Citroen AX 1.1i

0-62 in 11.9 sec

Max 105 mph
Post #15 Sat, Sep 6, 1:42 PM
Big hand
Member - 258

 since this car is already a 5.7L engine, so it doesnt matter if it is a V8 or V12. this car doesnt have as many cylinders as the ferrari, but the size of the engine is almost as big as the ferrari.
SO, SHUT UP
Post #16 Mon, Sep 8, 4:06 AM
Jon Gwynne
Senior Member - 552

 You know, if they'd gotten a decent engine, they could have had all the power in a much smaller, lighter package. Are they still using cast-iron for the engine block?

The idea of using a pushrod system to drive the valves is absurd. Jaguar was making OHC engines in the 1940s and Lotus engineers deveoped a 4-valve/cylinder production engine (also with OHC) in the early 1970s.

Anyone who knows the first thing about car engines will tell you that the higher you can rev the engine, the better your power output will be. Using a pushrod system limits the engine's max revs to 5,500 or 6,000 tops. A DOHC system would allow them to rev to at least 7,500 and maybe to 8,500 if the pistons were light and the right con-rods were used.

Four valves/cylinder will allow more air in and out of the engine which means even more power.

Then, a smaller-displacement engine could be used to produce the same power which would not only lighten the car but improve handling and fuel-economy as well.

Or, the displacement could stay the same and increased power could be had. Do you think the car would perform any better with 550bhp-600bhp?
Post #17 Mon, Sep 8, 4:48 PM
Gunman
Supercar Messiah - 2819

 The LS1/6 is an aluminum block.
Post #18 Sun, Sep 28, 10:37 AM
PandaGTI
New Member - 5

 Quote: "Its the same engine as the Z06. The Z06 gets 19 mpg in city and 28 mpg on highway. If thats guzzling gas to you, then what are you driving? An Echo?"


It is gaz guzzling to me, lol..

But then again, I drive a most pathetic little car. I drive a Fiat Panda. And it gets over 50MPG. Well, I guess I kinda have to drive that crapbox, since I'm just a poor student, and fuel prices here in Holland are in excess of US$5 per gallon..
|| NULLA TENACI INVIA EST VIA ||
Post #19 Wed, Oct 15, 1:31 AM
yay for pies
New Member - 6

 What is it with so many of you Americans? Why can't you just handle that your cars are old world lo-tech pieces of crap? The Europeans have always been the masters of the automobile, and always will be; never forget that your beloved Fords and whatever else you have started off as crappy little movers for the masses where Ferrari, Porsche, Maserati, Alfa, Jaguar, McLaren, BMW, Mercedes were all born out of motor racing.
"Reliable" is always the word that is liberally flung about when being compared against something way newer and cooler and more powerful. On the greater scale of automotive engineering, your Z06 is NOTHING. It is of no consequence, that is how lame it is. It may as well be a Honda Civic (which would actually make it considerably more advanced, in an engineering sense). Don't make a fool of yourself and compare anything american to Ferrari. If your automotive engineers are so great (and they obviously aren't, if they're still desperately clinging to their crusty old cliched recycled pushrod V8s from the 60s), why aren't they producing Porsche rivals? It is certainly a widely known FACT that american cars are still way behind the rest of the world in efficiency and technology, and they are seldom seen outside of the home country (thankfully).
Who says America can't build supercars? Just about anyone not from America, actually. Patriotism can really warp ones judgment, as you guys show all the time. I think the closest America got was that Saleen, but that too had OHV. So close, yet so far. Also remember that the fastest production cars in the world have all been European, so even in the big, burly power stakes America still can't win.
Just concede what is glaringly obvious, alright?
Post #20 Thu, Oct 16, 6:56 AM
DragStrip
Supercar Messiah - 3354

 Love your use of logic yay for pies. Now its time to open your eyes and see whats reality. I love european cars myself and also domestic, but when it comes to performance nothing can beat domestic bang for the buck. Who makes the quickest street legal car? America of course, Lingenfelter 427 TT, (yes it uses a pushrod) also the Hennessy Venom, another very american car. When it comes to production vehicles, the Vette and Viper keep up, and most of the time beat the overpriced european cars, in handeling, 0-60, and quartermile. You could spend 50k on a 12 second car with a skid pad of .99gs, or 150k on a 12 second car with a skidpad of .99gs, which would you prefer? And ofcourse reliability, everyone argues about this, the Corvette ZR1 was tested on a track at 170mph for over 24 hours strait(not including driver changing and refueling). And keep in mind the design of the Zr1 is over 10 years old, think of what they have now. Ive never heard of a car that could endure that, not even the belovid ferrari, lamborghini, or bmw. Don't get me wrong like I said I like european cars, but the statement you made above was ideotic.
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Post #21 Thu, Oct 16, 8:59 PM
Gunman
Supercar Messiah - 2819

 Actually...the VW supercar broke most, if not all of the ZR1's records, not once, but twice, BUT it was not a production car, like the ZR1.

As for the european cars being better, how much does it cost, and how often does a high reving non-pushrod Italian exotic need general maintance? and now how does that compare to the 'low tech' pushrod LS6 engine?
Post #22 Sat, Nov 1, 11:17 PM
katscratchedme
Senior Member - 269

 The only reason the American cars are always cheaper than the European cars is because they are mass produced low tech crap.

If your reason for buying a product is merely price I guess that's why you buy your clothes at K-Mart and Target - me, I'd rather pay more for something exotic. It may be better VALUE, that doesn't mean it's actually BETTER.

As far as Hennessey and Lingenfelter, the two names bandied around by you die hard Americans in a last ditch desperate breathless bid to salvage the names of your otherwise ineffective auto manufacturers, these are not indicative of your car manufacturers, they are non-production very limited hot-up jobs, and also well eclipsed by the European tuners such as Koenig, Hamann, Kleemann, Strosek, Carlson, Lorinser, Renntech, Techart, Gemballa, Sportech, Rinspeed, Lotec, Roock, Ruf, Cartronic, Breyton, Novitech, Brabus and the list goes on and on.

Though you've probably never heard of any of these, I guess....
Post #23 Sun, Nov 2, 8:25 PM
EliseS2
Posts Ignored - 14710

 Wow, you are one funny little boy. Actually the money that Henery Ford used to create the Ford Motor Company came from a race he entered.
Would you like to see my economic stimulus package?
Post #24 Sun, Nov 2, 8:50 PM
EliseS2
Posts Ignored - 14710

 This is great. What you need to realize is that DOHC engines came before pushrod engines. Pushrods were developed as a replacement.

The current M3 uses a cast iron block.


Lets do a fun exercise here.

Lets say that you want to design an engine. Lets come up with some criteria.

You want it to be light wieght.

You want it to be very compact.

You would want a low hieght, so you can make the hood lower for aerodynamic reasons.

You want good fuel economy.

You would want an engine that is easily to work on.

You would want one that has low end power, because you will not always be in the powerband when driving around town.

I think we can all agree on these. Notice that displacement is not a criteria. Any engine that fits this bill would be great.

Lets compare the 405hp LS6 to the 4.4l DOHC BMW V8. Now the BMW is fancy with its DOHC, variable valve timing, and that neat variable lift on the intake valve that takes away the need for the throttle. It produces a stagering 320hp. It weighs in at 470lbs. The LS6 produces more hp and wieghs in at 400lbs. The LS6 is also shorter because it does not need to run chains up to the cams on the top of the heads. It is also less wide because it does not have cams on top of the heads. It is also lower because it does not have cams on top of the heads. It also has a lower CG than BMW engine. It is also much simpler that makes it easier to work on and cheaper to make.

Now lets compare to technology favorite that is the S2000's mightly 2.0l 240hp wonder of tech. It wieghts in at a great 320lbs. Wow Eighty pounds less than the Old-tech V8. The Z06 also gets better gas mileage even though the entire car is heavier.

So lets look for the best power to weight it seems that the Pushrod has advantages because less parts means less wieght.
It also shows that the cam being put inside the V8 makes it more compact. Also they can achieve better gas mileage than the high-tech inline four, while making more power. Also with the increased didplacement you get more low end torque, which makes it easier to drive.

The LS6 is a very high tech engine. DOHC are not the only technology in an engine. That is similar to going the only technology in on a Computer is the monitor. The LS6 was designed using the most advanced finite element anaylsis available and using the best computational fluid analysis available. It is made with the best technology available. So the end is a high horsepower, compact, light, and fuel effecient engine, how is that not technology (ohh yea that is right it uses pushrods, so it is not technologicly advanced).

Lister who made race cars in England during the 60 originally used the OHC straight six from Jaguar. He stopped using it when the chevy small block became available, because the Chevy was 100lbs lighter and 100hp more powerful.
Would you like to see my economic stimulus package?
Post #25 Tue, Dec 2, 4:05 PM
ImGod
New Member - 21

 Down

With

Khari! Who does he think he is anyway, God?

Americans

Can

Make

Supercars! Like the Saleen S7.

Khari,

Go

To

#@*!

Will

You?
"You truly are clueless. Are you sure it's just your memory that's the problem?" Lulu-Final Fantsay X-best d@#n game I've ever played.
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All Forums > 2005 Mosler MT900 S > Who says Americans can't build exotic supercars. > Post Reply
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