Re: DOMESTIC VS IMPORTS

Discussion in '2002 Mazda RX-7 Spirit R' started by sparetire, Aug 10, 2002.

  1. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from v0locity</i>
    <b>so yea for you domestic people out there that like to argue about imports vs domestic. well i have a alot of reasons why domestic isnt as good as imports. First off hp/l does matter why it shows how efficient a car is. lets compare a next generation skyline to a Viper. Viper makes 50 some hp/l with a 450 hp V10 8.0 liter made by lamborgini and built by mitsubitshi and designed by dodge. the skyline V8 4.0 liter making 450 hp. ironic huh a engine half the displacement can make as much power... Second the reason why domestic cars have such poor hp/l is cuz they are still using the same old technology they are using 30 years back how sad huh. For that they gotta make such a huge engine to produce such poor numbers. And cuz of big engines making the car heavy, that means taking away the handling of hte car. To make up for in domestic companys have to put such big wheels on it. Third a viper runs what? 12.5 1/4 mile with a huge engine and huge displacement with 450 hp. a 2003 NSX Type R runs 12.4 with a V6 3.2 liter making about 290hp. And the NSX can out handle the viper by... alot. and the Rx7 is one of the best handling cars in this world. Cuz of the light engine and light car. and yet that car can still run 13.8 down the 1/4 mile huh isnt that nice a 2 rotor car can do so much. and the Supra it pulls a 1g skidpad with stock wheels can a domestic do that? and plus if the domestic can compare there wheels to the supra now who's bigger? lol i know there is gonna be alot of bullshit post on this one but oh wells </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    All sorts of ignorant, narrow minded people hate cars just for their country of origin, not just US car lovers.

    Well.... The Viper will take the Skyline in terms of peformance, its a fact. Don't say the Viper has bad handling because its heavy. Thats dumb, the Skyline is heavier than the Mustang, Camaro, Vette, or Viper. The old gen anyway. The old ones weighed in at 3900 lbs.

    The bigger domestic engines use less tech and more displacement, because it is proven and cheap and effective. The reason the Hp/Litre is lower is because the engines are generaly bigger. Think about it. Do you think it is fair to compare an inline 4 to 8 cylinder in terms of HP/Litre. It's not. Inline 4's suck compared to the average go kart engine in terms of power to weight, because they are bigger. This is a basic engineering fact. You dont bash inline 4's I bet.
    Not that the technology in the Chevy powerplants is amazing. 28 MPG on the highway from a 5.7 litre turning over 400 hp! Thats incredible. Get 400HP from a inline turbo intercooled 4 and it will not even approach that.
    Too many people just say, this is more high tech and therefore better, and that is a misconception. Most import sports cars are more high tech than their domestic competition, but that is just a matter of marketing. You like imports, so you talk about it alot. But good engineering is not just making the most complicated system possible, its making the best system possible, and that means good price, good performance, proven ideas. Domestics do that just like everyone else. Again I cite the 5.7 litre LS6 powerplant, which is very similar to the LS1.

    Take away the handling? How about 1G+ on the skid? Thats what the Viper and Vette turn in. Not that that is everything, but it is good. No why that is that? The weight distrabution of those cars is amazing. Its about 50-50 front to rear, perfect. They handle exceptionaly well. The stereotypes that domestics don't handle is false.

    Yeah, the NSX will beat the Viper, for 20 K more. It's a great vehicle, but don't forget that many cars compared to the domestics are way out of the domestics price range. This comparo is but one example.

    Basicly, Hp/Litre does not matter. Because if you have a car with low Hp/Litre that will kill, at a better price, a car with high Hp/Litre, it is a better car in terms of performance. The Skyline will lose to the Vette, and the Vette Z06 is cheaper. In terms of performance per dollar, the vette wins, with its "old tech" (which is not true) V8.

    Not trying to put you down, but you have been listening to the wrong people, namely the ones who hate all domestics or the ones who hate all imports. Both types of people are morons. Dont say I am just a muscle head, my next car will be a 1st gen Eclipse GSX.
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  2. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Ferrari4ever123</i>
    <b>where do I start....Tuscani...thank your for what you said


    and holy smoking shit....528...does that mean 528 CI?...that is like frgging 9.0L ...shit that is a friggin huge engine.....that isn't hard to get 740 HP out of.....no wonder...

    there are turbo 1.8L engines running that kind of HP ...
    Rod Millens Pikes Peak Celica runs 1000HP with no NOS...out of 2.1L turbo....that is about 1/4 - 1/5 the displacement of your Mopar motor.
    And for NA...Lambos new car produces 580 HP from 6.0L

    and I know that engine isn't road legal...there is no way..

    gun who cares if you can't rebuild a NSX engine...what does that mean...there are mechanics that can do that...I can rebuild a civic engine....but not a Lexus engine...but my brother can he is a class 1 mechanic for Lexus....

    I am not bashing you...but I am saying that ALot of forign cars have much much more efficient engines....Honestly there isn't any American car that I can think of that can boast 100 HP\L

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    And what does Rods car cost vs the 528? Make fair comparisons. As in price. For a budget, and sub 8 time slips, Displacement is the way to go. Sub 10 too. Domestics do very well in thier own price ranges, which the entire point of most domestics. This RX-7 is a very competetor for the same reason. These ran about 30K when the sold in the states, thats damn good. The same kind of benefit comes from say, a Camaro or Viper. Compare them to other 30K and 70K cars respectivly. <!-- Signature -->
     
  3. #3 SolidHPM, Aug 10, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from MR DRIFT</i>
    <b>IMPORTS ARE HI-TECH, ADVANCED, RELIABLE CARS. WHILE YOUR BIG, OLD, POSH ROD 1960'S ENGINES DON'T COMPARE.
    GT-RS CAN PUSH OUT MORE THAT 900KW AT THE WHEELS! WHERE NOT TALKING FLYWHEEL HERE!
    IMPORTS CAN GET ALOT OF POWER OUT OF SMALLER ENGINES, WE DON'T JUST ADD CYLINDERS TO ADD POWER, WE PERFECT EVERY PART TO ADD POWER.
    THOSE FWD DRAG CARS GET 850HP+ OUT OF 1.8-2.2L HONDA ENGINES. YOU NEED 6.0L+ V19+ TO GET THAT MUCH POWER!
    HAVE YOU SEEN THE TOP SECRET SUPRA THAT HAS A 4-CYLINDER AND GOES FROM 0-300KM/H IN 24 SECONDS! THE JUN SUPRA THAT GOES 401KM/H! OR THE BLITZ 300ZX THAT GOES 418KM/H!
    ROTORS HAVE ALOT OF POTENTIAL TOO, THE OLDER 12A's can make RX-2's do 9's
    http://www.pacperformance.com.au/pac_cust_cars.htm have a look at what those 13bs put out!
    if you want pay alot of money for a slow car with more cylinders then hp, drinks more then 100 people at a house with free beer and not even weight watchers can help go ahead and by a domestic
    BUT IF YOU WANT MOTORING EXCELENCE, TECNOLOGY AT YOUR FINGER TIPS, SPEED AND POWER BUY A IMPORT!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->What do you mean 'we'? I sincerely doubt you have done anything to any of the automobiles you mentioned. And those Hondas are quad turbos. If I slapped quad turbos onto a Viper V10 I'd have a 1200+hp monster on my hand. I hate people who just spit shit like this out. If we are going to throw tuner cars in here-oh look, Joe Amato's top fuel dragster has so many horses it can't be properly dynoed and does the quarter in 3 seconds. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH TUNER CARS. We are talking stock here. Christ, you are an embarassment to import lovers. Does the fact that you use the caps lock key to get your point across make you feel special? And just a note- as every senior member of sc.net knows-you better show the evidence to support those numbers, or they mean nothing. And a V19? Don't be an idiot.<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. There is no such thing as domestic vs import... if you like domestic go for it if you like import go for it... i'll see you at the track on friday<IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">!
     
  5. Same here- buy what you want, drive what you want. Don't disrespect any whole nation of cars, because each country has their own incredible automobiles. The man makes the car, and if you don't believe that maybe one day I'll see you at the track and prove you wrong.......<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. Even so....all u muscle fans have to admit that this is a hella sweet car <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"> <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"><!-- Signature -->
     
  7. Woohoo yeah thats right man thanks for backing me up i know im not the only one who doesn't understand this argument!
    PS the muscle fans don't have to admit anything
     
  8. GTR IS GOD.<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. As for me admitting that this is a sweet car-no. This is a hellasweet car! <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"><!-- Signature -->
     
  10. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gryphonlord2001</i>
    <b>i think the 22 mpg was on the highway...
    the part about an american inventing mass production - yes, that's true...but it is a huge step from inventing the automobile, which wasn't american...
    and toonediroc, as i'm sure you've heard very often but keep ignoring, the quarter-mile isn't everything!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->I know that we did not invent the car, i just wanted to poit that out.

    about the quarter mile thing? you are right about that too, but believe it or not Camaros are VERY capable handlers as well. I put in a strut tower brace this morning on mine (02 Z28) and i tested before and after using a Gtech windshield tester thingy which was my buddie's ( not the best description or the best tester, but believe it or not it is pretty accurate). Before the strut tower, when it was all stock i pulled.87 G and after i pulled .89 G, thats not bad at all, i dont really car what you think about it, "RX is better" (no shit), "my civic..." (dont care), "well a stock NSX or SUPRA..." (still dont care).... 0.89 G is mighty impressive for a car that i purchased and modified for less than 25,000 dollars. I love the curves almost as much as i love the feeling of being shoved in my seat from 306 STOCK rwhp, I like drifting corners, power on oversteer, apexing turns on curvy lakeside roads. Its all fun, thats why i bought MY Camaro.
     
  11. #11 bigrob, Aug 10, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Not really, there is so much hot air in that post it is disgusting. The viper and NSX are both very compitant handlers, in fact the viper was built from ground up to be a handler, as noted by the fully independant suspension and the fact that not many vipers are seen at the drag strip, sorry to burst your bubble. The vipe and the NSX both have very high handling stats for example....

    Motor trend tested their viper at 1.01 G on the skid pad and 72 mph through the slalom in the may of 1998 on a "regular" GTS viper.

    Motor trend tested the NSX as 0.94 on the skid and at 69.5 through the slalom in the May 97 issue.

    You can say that those tests dont mean shit, and someone will, but those numbers are what we have to compare with. You can compare it yourself at www.autosite.com the numbers are there in black and white.

    As for the the RX7, yes i am very impressedby it. It is an incredibly engineered car and it is a shame that it had to leave the states. The rotary motor is a marvel of modern technology, now if they could just keep those seals from breaking....

    The implications and the statements that have been made saying that a car is not good because it was engineered in a different style (aka more cubes) are asanine. The RX and the Supra and the NSX and etc... were designed to do what they do as were the vettes and vipers, they have just been designed in different styles. One style is no better than the other except in ones opinion.

    My opinion is obvious, thanks to the flashing Camaro name next to my posts. I have already made comments as to how retared it is to say that bigger tires alone make handling numbers, but very quickly let me reiterate, TORQUE, torque is what is needed to push those huge tires around in circles makeing the cars go forward. I sincerely doubt that the RX or any other car without similar toque could push those tires that are on the viper and still come up with any acceleration at all, it wont happen.

    Next, i dont believe you when you say that the supra makes 1 G on the skid stock, but i have no way to confirm it, all i know is that supras in general are not japans best example of a handling car, of a drag car yes. Supras can be made into hellacious dragsters.

    So in conclusion, that above post was not well said, it was biased, ignorant, and unsupported.

    P.S. Hp/L still doesnt matter unless you are entering your car into a displacement limited racing enviornment. if Hp/L wa sthe end all and be all of performance than you should go out and put a bunch of model airplane motors in your car. Due to the fact that they are the most "efficient" motors on the market producing close to 1100 hp/L.
     
  12. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 250GTO</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from v0locity</i>
    <b>so yea for you domestic people out there that like to argue about imports vs domestic. well i have a alot of reasons why domestic isnt as good as imports. First off hp/l does matter why it shows how efficient a car is. lets compare a next generation skyline to a Viper. Viper makes 50 some hp/l with a 450 hp V10 8.0 liter made by lamborgini and built by mitsubitshi and designed by dodge. the skyline V8 4.0 liter making 450 hp. ironic huh a engine half the displacement can make as much power... Second the reason why domestic cars have such poor hp/l is cuz they are still using the same old technology they are using 30 years back how sad huh. For that they gotta make such a huge engine to produce such poor numbers. And cuz of big engines making the car heavy, that means taking away the handling of hte car. To make up for in domestic companys have to put such big wheels on it. Third a viper runs what? 12.5 1/4 mile with a huge engine and huge displacement with 450 hp. a 2003 NSX Type R runs 12.4 with a V6 3.2 liter making about 290hp. And the NSX can out handle the viper by... alot. and the Rx7 is one of the best handling cars in this world. Cuz of the light engine and light car. and yet that car can still run 13.8 down the 1/4 mile huh isnt that nice a 2 rotor car can do so much. and the Supra it pulls a 1g skidpad with stock wheels can a domestic do that? and plus if the domestic can compare there wheels to the supra now who's bigger? lol i know there is gonna be alot of bullshit post on this one but oh wells </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->well said!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Well said?
    Its a bunch of stereotypical trash saying all american cars suck all imports rule, and the americans are the ones bashing everyone else. It BS, read on of my posts. I refuted it, succesfully, point by point. Then I answered some questions from VOlocity about what I said. Read the damn forum! And it was a nice conversation, not some damn mudslinging match.

    What the hell?! I come back here and half you people are just bitching and moaning again! Around page 4, the questions had basicly been answered and this (beleive it or not if your too damn lazy to read the forum...those of you who I'm talking about know who you are) Was a constructive forum! Lay off. The stereotypes are wrong, and if you beleive them, then its because you want to, subjectivly, not objectivly. The fact is that there are great domestics and great imports. Camaro-300+ RW hp stock, for way under 30K, with decent handling. RX-7 about 30K, one of the best balanced cars in production, killer looks, and unique too boot. The examples about. Read my previous posts, I'm tired of explaining to people why movies like the F and F are complete bs and why the haters are fools. If you think about it, its all obvious.

    P.S. Sorry about the GT2 milage, Iwas misinformed. But it is not daily driver. Thats the 911 turbo. The GT2 is purpose built performance.<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. Hey Velocity you do know that Mazda is owned by an american company. (Ford).
     
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  18. i have gotta say that this rx-7 is a sweet one, thank you to mazda for putting up another rx-7!
     
  19. Read the sig people, its heartening because its true.<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from sparetire</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Ferrari4ever123</i>
    <b>You know in America everything is HP and 1/4 mile...

    When you go upto someone with a nice car what do you say?
    "how much HP are you making out of that engine?" think about it noone cares about anything else.

    but ever form of motor racing in the world (except BS nascar) includes braking and cornering....

    I think that a comparison should be taken on a road course...

    if a 1977 POS Ford , Dodge or whatever you think is so fast beats a import that you think is fair to compare it with....then I will give you all credit.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You are a borderline racist. Your actually saying that all Americans are ignorant. A very smart man said that we criticize that which we hate the most in ourselfs. I'm American. Guess what my next car is? A AWD turbo inline 4. Whoops there goes that theory. More examples? ALMS. The fact that there are hundreds, no thousands of import shops in this courty, where it would be better, in terms od 1/4 mile performance, to go with huge big blocks all the time. How about the clubs for all types of car here. How about that damn movie Fast and the Furious? It was crap, but it was a huge exibition of exagerated car handling feats. Made to sell to American 16 year olds. How about a 2002 Chevy Corvette beating an NSX around Laguna Seca? Credit please.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    No shit. Besides, there is more to racing than a road course. How about Drag Racing. How many millions of people enjoy that for the raw power. Second. Nascar is not B.S. That is probably the hardest Racing in the world. They have road courses on the circuit as well as a hell of alot of short tracks. Tracks where thay are racing at sometimees as close as inches at 140 to 150 MPH. Going onto a corner, braking out on the accelerator. A slight wrong move, even as much as touching the apron a little bit will end your day as well as that of the people around you. Third of all, huge motors are not out of date. I know a guy who has a 61 Vette with a rebuilt 454, no turbo, Nitros, Supercharger or anything. That runs the quarter mile in 6 seconds. If you can show me an import that can beat that, Then you may start to get a case against american muscle.

    Also lets not forget the old Schelby 427 Cobra, wich kicked everones ass on the road course, well except the other American Beast, the ford GT40 MK1 MK2 etc.

    Now lets see what your RlCE burning piece of shit can do!!!<!-- Signature -->
     
  21. >so yea for you domestic people out there that like to argue about imports vs domestic. well i have a alot of reasons why domestic isnt as good as imports. First off hp/l does matter why it shows how efficient a car is. lets compare a next generation skyline to a Viper. Viper makes 50 some hp/l with a 450 hp V10 8.0 liter made by lamborgini and built by mitsubitshi and designed by dodge. the skyline V8 4.0 liter making 450 hp. ironic huh a engine half the displacement can make as much power...

    That is also another way of seeing how much strain is on the engine. If I had a 1 liter engine putting out 51hp you would then be able to explain to me why it is better than the v10? Also take notes kid, torque is what moves cars.

    Right off the bat you are showing how biased you are 'made by lamborgini and built by mitsubitshi' was that really necessary?

    > Second the reason why domestic cars have such poor hp/l is cuz they are still using the same old technology they are using 30 years back how sad huh. For that they gotta make such a huge engine to produce such poor numbers. And cuz of big engines making the car heavy, that means taking away the handling of hte car. To make up for in domestic companys have to put such big wheels on it.

    Heavy engine? DOHC is heavier than OHV and a viper puts out some amazing skid pad numbers btw. Also DOHC and SOHC is not as new as you think. And about the 'big wheels on it' well of course, the larger the tires foot print the better it will handle...

    > Third a viper runs what? 12.5 1/4 mile with a huge engine and huge displacement with 450 hp. a 2003 NSX Type R runs 12.4 with a V6 3.2 liter making about 290hp. And the NSX can out handle the viper by... alot. and the Rx7 is one of the best handling cars in this world. Cuz of the light engine and light car. and yet that car can still run 13.8 down the 1/4 mile huh isnt that nice a 2 rotor car can do so much. and the Supra it pulls a 1g skidpad with stock wheels can a domestic do that? and plus if the domestic can compare there wheels to the supra now who's bigger? lol i know there is gonna be alot of bullshit post on this one but oh wells

    Ok the viper can run 12 flat, the 12.5 came from an average I'm guessing you got out of some magazine.
    'the Supra it pulls a 1g skidpad with stock wheels can a domestic do that?' Yes, the viper and the z06, not to mention the more expensive models like the viper acr, gt2, etc...

    Also about the rx7, it's a great car and one of my favorites. But comparing a rotary to a V is apples and oranges. It's also one of the most unreliable engines out there...<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. DOMESTIC VS IMPORTS

    so yea for you domestic people out there that like to argue about imports vs domestic. well i have a alot of reasons why domestic isnt as good as imports. First off hp/l does matter why it shows how efficient a car is. lets compare a next generation skyline to a Viper. Viper makes 50 some hp/l with a 450 hp V10 8.0 liter made by lamborgini and built by mitsubitshi and designed by dodge. the skyline V8 4.0 liter making 450 hp. ironic huh a engine half the displacement can make as much power... Second the reason why domestic cars have such poor hp/l is cuz they are still using the same old technology they are using 30 years back how sad huh. For that they gotta make such a huge engine to produce such poor numbers. And cuz of big engines making the car heavy, that means taking away the handling of hte car. To make up for in domestic companys have to put such big wheels on it. Third a viper runs what? 12.5 1/4 mile with a huge engine and huge displacement with 450 hp. a 2003 NSX Type R runs 12.4 with a V6 3.2 liter making about 290hp. And the NSX can out handle the viper by... alot. and the Rx7 is one of the best handling cars in this world. Cuz of the light engine and light car. and yet that car can still run 13.8 down the 1/4 mile huh isnt that nice a 2 rotor car can do so much. and the Supra it pulls a 1g skidpad with stock wheels can a domestic do that? and plus if the domestic can compare there wheels to the supra now who's bigger? lol i know there is gonna be alot of bullshit post on this one but oh wells
     
  23. oh yea i forgot the mension that the Skyline is one of the greatest handling cars ever. Cuz they were banned from the rally tracks. Cuz they were kicking so much ass.
     
  24. You are cool man.!

    That is a good point....HP\L show efficiency....that is what my whole point was about....not about bashing

    hope ya'lls understand I am not bashing
     
  25. the fastest nsx on supercars.net is a comptech supercharged 1999, running a 13.1 quarter mile with 425 horspower, so this brings a few doubts about basically the same car running a 12.4 with 135 horsepower less.
     

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