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Discussion in 'European Cars' started by lucky strike, Feb 15, 2011.
shut it moran stupid mexican, go mow my lawn and stfu.
all the shit they're saying that ferrari does is fake and gay, fake and gay. FAKE AND GAY.
More garbage excuses. The simple fact is that in the group tests where Harris was involved, none of the other manufacturers provided support on anywhere near the level of Ferrari. If a customer Porsche is to be compared against a customer Ferrari, then what advantage does the Porsche have?
By posting all of this, you are supporting Harris's claim: that Ferrari are genuinely concerned about their image if their cars are fractionally slower than others (even though their explanation in the past, and very reasonable I might add, has been that Ferraris "are not about numbers, but the experience"), and that their is some policy to control the inclusion of cars of "unkown provenance." Evo aren't too dumb to work tire pressure gauges (their general policy is to use the manufacturer's recommended pressures), and I'm pretty sure Ferrari were pretty discerning on their 599 GTO clientele. Do you honestly think your typical GTO customer isn't going to take care of the vehicle?
Have pictures of the Lambo team? Any claim that Lambo talked to owners who wanted their private cars tested?
2 seconds faster than an *unpublished* lap time. Ok... I like how you left out the variable of conditions when the group and twin tests in question (by Evo/Autocar/etc) involve all cars in the same conditions. By your own admission about previous tests, conditions have played a role in time discrepancies.
As for quality vs performance concerns, that also sounds pretty laughable. What, do Ferraris fall to pieces once they leave the factory? If a Porsche or others can withstand lap after lap of hard driving without technical support, don't you think a Ferrari should be capable of the same? The simple fact (and this is a point that you are still failing to acknowledge) is that other companies don't go to the same extremes that Ferrari do when it comes to tests.
When the LP670 SV was tested at the ring the factory sent a mecanic and a pilot with a trailer and that's it.
I was there and talked to them.
ok, Harris has a lot of problems with Ferrari. but it doesn't mean Ferrari ***for every test*** and ****with every magazine*** pretends to be the winner and/or threatens revenge
No, I have no pictures of lambo team, but (unfortunally for you) I've a nice topic about this. a member ask to Facchinetti about mnfrs teams during the test
His answer is:
"They do only Ferrari and Lamborghini. To provide technical support (additional sets of tires if you ruin the original) and to make sure that we can make the most of the machine (perhaps a mistake to put the launch control procedure by, say ...)
For the rest we do for our affairs, except to inform the House in those cases where the machine seems to have a technical problem because he has poor performance "
If you don't belive it, you can join the forum
or send an email to Facchinetti
Unpublished times? bad news for you (again) from Auto 01/2009
customer 430S 2s faster than offical 430S, with same power output (same topspeed). the winner of this customer-comparo was a iper-tuned 997TT 600 and extreme setup.
No comment about MC12 and Enzo (customer) @ Ring..? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
even so I'm still waiting for a (customer)GT-R sub 7.30 @ Ring.... <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
The only thing that matters is the RING time, whatever setup they have.
Only Subaru did it stock, and proved how much the STI kicks asses.
how do you know it was stock? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
About Auto magazine, there's a member agree with Harris: Facchinetti answer to him...
"As for the newspapers to the slave power and Fiat who pays, I can bring several examples in which the Fiat Group vehicles have been criticized by Auto without having received death threats from Marchionne or his representative.
It happened once in the history of Auto, a car with a low stability (Hyundai Atos). We wrote it with no problems, the house has taken the advertising and the cars being tested for several years and we ended up in court. But we're still here.
However, *******if you can I would like to invite you to Balocco the next time you try a car with the friendly support team (Lambo LP700-4 in May, Ferrari FF probably in July) to see with your own eyes what happens on the track********. My phone number is 051/6227339. I await your call to deepen the discussion"
458 did't set laprecord @ balocco, but Ferrari will give its new car next summer <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
Subaru never lies. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/smile.gif"></A> Why cheat when you have the best AWD in the world - symmetrical AWD? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/PnutSpecial.gif"></A>
...because for some members EVO has suddenly become a the Holy Bibble and Harris the Holy Trinity... <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
oh this threads still going
never make assumptions!
If you seriously buy or like a car because of it's laptimes (has to have the fastest laptime) you are an idiot. Talk about some major league bullshit.
P.S. Ferrari fanboys are a bunch of #%$s.
well ya thats the point. ferrari fanboys are idiots and ferrari is a company that makes overpriced junk for those idiots. they're not the best at anything so they have to cheat their way to the top.
I only point to "unpublished" because you mentioned the guy saying it. Now that the customer F430 is faster, it becomes "unpublished." OK...
Enzo @ 'Ring? Look back at my original question:
"how fast would the *458* have been if it had just rolled onto the track without the Ferrari team of engineers"
The Enzo's time at the 'Rind doesn't answer the question of how fast a factory-supplied Enzo would have been. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
We do know something about the build quality of that Enzo, however: its dampers failed on the circuit when others did not.
Where did I say that Ferrari does this with ALL tests?? Quit being an idiot.
To my knowledge, Nissan has never contacted a private customer about lending his car to mag tests. Nissan have provided press cars that were slower in a straight line than BMW M3s. They don't send Toshio Suzuki to teach mag editors how to extract the best from it; nor do they send a team of engineers with fresh tires to extract the best. They've actually provided GT-Rs on the *wrong* sets of tires, as for eCOTY. If you still doubt the speed of the GT-R, then there are vids of GT-R owners hounding Scuderia owners on track.
One other difference: In the US market, many GT-Rs were supplied to owners on a default track alignment with negative camber, which the owner could changed if he wished at the complimentary 1000 mile checkup.
And as I've said before, there is a definite (and counterintuitive) technique in driving the GT-R to its full potential. This involves the nature of its AWD system.
Like your friend on that forum says: He cannot say that what Harris says is right or wrong. If it's not true, then he can emphatically confirm that Harris is lying, yet he does not. He DOES agree with Harris that Ferrari try to control cars of "unknown provenance" being included. And he doesn't say that other manufacturers go through the same lengths. Now, draw your own conclusions. Can you honestly say Ferrari are just like every other manufacturer?
I do not know about tested customer-458, but I have published customer-tests of two of the most important Ferrari in the last 10 years, and have done great things. This suppresses the view of Harris.
I do not say that Harris is a liar. certainly had problems against Maranello, and if he think that Ferrari is too overwhelming, he is right to say it. the point is the absolute tone of Harris. Ferrari-is-wrong, this means "not the other manufacturers. " I disagree. full stop.
he is saying that his experience leads him to the conclusing that ferrari are much worse.
sending two cars for a test, one for speed tests and another for handling. what a #$%#ing joke.
Your published customer-tests don't say anything about how fast a factory car would perform on the same day, so no, that does nothing to suppress the view of anyone.
Do you have instances of other manufacturers threatening owners as alleged by Harris? Instances of other manufacturers sending team trucks full of engineers, tires, and development drivers on non-launch tests? Sending 2 different cars? Asking where a test will take place so that they can send a team beforehand to set the car up? Changing a car's tires to "optimize" it for the wet portion of a test? Before you answer with 1 or 2 manufacturers that might do 1 or 2 of these things, remember that there is considerable history suggesting that Ferrari does ALL of these things.
Malfada's English makes me want to jam a nail through my nostril and into my brain
Stopping you no is one