Nissan GT-R: 7:50 at the Nurburgring

Discussion in 'Asian Forums' started by ajzahn, Nov 24, 2007.

  1. I fail to understand why downforce is now "aerodynamic induce stability"? Or is it that I fail to understand by downforce reduces roll?

    I did read the LINKS. First, they are great links and have some good info in them. The problem is that while they include some OK technical information they are first and foremost marketing, so there are all sorts of little errors. Take the picture of the chassis that shows the material make up, for some reason the fiberglass tray underneath the engine is said to be carbon in the picture, but the text says that it is fiber glass. Also it says that the radiator mounting is carbon fiber, but then the text says something about it being a carbon infused structure. Now, I have read a lot about composite structures and have some experience working with them and have never heard them called a carbon infused structure, so it is not clear what material it is made out of. Second, it seems to be not perfectly translated from japanese, I think that is the cause of some of the errors. When you read it, you could understand what they want to say, but the actual wording is wrong. So the whole press release ends up not being some great technical document, but something taken with real meaning, then massaged by the marketing department and then translated to english, so that the original meaning has been warped.

    I just asked a question, since the area you used seems in the ballpark and is different from what I would estimate using the published width and length, so I was wondering where you got that number and if a frontal area number exists. Just because they targeted a car, does not mean they succeeded in beating it.

    I do not know where you get off calling me ignorant, when you are the one that has shown an ignorance of the principles being discussed. All you do is quote press releases, quoting something does not mean that you understand it. Instead of showing an understanding of the issues, you instead call me ignorant and afraid, brilliant argument.
  2. I don't known if it has been mentioned (too long thread to read) but it should have done the lap with the 180kmh limiter in place.
  3. well i owe you an appology. sorry.
  5. #155 MindlessOath, Jan 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Best Motoring 2008 Feb NISSAN GT-R Vol.1

    Best Motoring 2008 Feb NISSAN GT-R Vol.2

    Best Motoring 2008 Feb NISSAN GT-R Vol.3

    S15 vs R35
  6. #156 PandaBeat, Jan 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  7. I wish there were English subtitles
  10. feb, 2008

    LOL, they´re cheating again being ahead of time
  11. Basically, Mizuno-san explains why the new PM platform is better, and how it actually works better with a car that weighs 1740kgs - namely by having the transaxle separate from the engine, it allows better power apportionment to the back wheels under acceleration - there is a 0.2 second weight transfer that can be used. Also, the car is set up for over 2G sideways forces.

    Also - what was interesting is he said "so we have laps at Nurburgring in the 7 30s... I say 30s now, but that might change next year..."

    As for Gan-san, he likes the car, but pointed out to Mizuno-san that the car understeers a bit more than he'd like on downslope/uphill corners. Says that with all the computers, that should be able to be taken care of. But, it is one car that he would love to drive at Nurburgring.

    thats what someone who translated it said.
  12. #162 ajzahn, Jan 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  13. they never cheat, they are trying to make stuff interesting you thick $%^&*
  14. you take everything I say seriuosly? <A BORDER="0" HREF=""><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
  15. that link is not found anywhere at motor trend. obviously you put a wrong time down... its 7:38.54 nissan GT-R R35
  16. more translation of the best motoring vids...

    The new 3rd gen GT-R, CBA-R35 has parted with the Skyline name(2:00-)
    Mizuno:We wanted to protect the GTRs essential heritage DNA; a rareness which bundles practicality and high preformance; it has been carrying since the 1st gen. Although the GTR has supercar performance, we wanted it to be multifunctional.

    I mean "multi" in the car having stability/quickness racing at the Nur, allowing passengers to talk normally even at speeds of 300km/h, allowing you to enjoy performance driving even in the rain or snow, and at the same time allowing you to use the car practicaly on trips.

    We also wanted to introduce a new "multi" in things like performance, build quality, aftercare, which are essential in making cars and customer hospitality. Simply put, we wanted to make a multi-performance supercar enjoyable for "anyone, anywhere, anytime".

    -Impression on general roads(3:25-)
    Kurosawa:Car is set to normal mode and feels a bit harsh, but it's not bad for this kind of (super)car. Lets set the dampers to comfort...doesnt change much, but its better than normal. I'm running on Sendai highland raceway's access road which is horrible, so being able to run like this here should be pretty good on normal paved roads.

    K:I was a bit worried about wandering steering but it's not bad. Considering the car has 255/20 tyres its actually pretty good. It isnt the best sounding engine since its a V6 but its pretty quiet for its kind. Riding on these roads the seats are superb, rigidity is excellent, and the aerodynamics are great, stability is high. Nissan has nailed it and is a masterpiece.

    -How can a 1740kg car run the Nur in 7:38? (6:00-)
    Mizuno: Consequently, the car needs 1740kg to be this quick. To run the Nur in 7:30's - I'm saying 30's right now, I might be saying else next year (*Spec-V is scheduled in 2008) - the weight of 1740kgs is a must. Conventional transaxle had the engine and transmission coupled in one by a torque tube. But usually in a car there is a time lag between when you turn in and when the weight is applied to the rear tyres.

    The ideal time gap is 0.2 seconds, and in order to achive that the engine and trasnmission were seperated apart.
    The car uses the weight of the engine to turn the front tyres, while the transaxle weight is used when the rear tyres start gripping 0.2secs later. That is why we decided to use an independent transaxle system that seperates the engine and transmission connected by only 2 propeller shafts.

    Since this is basically a FR car(*it only becomes AWD when necessary), in order to run quickly at the Nur, to run a fast 0-100km/h, its necessary to have the rear tyres gripping and applying coirrect force to the rear tyres. We first made the rear trasaxle specs needed to reach our goals, and then decided the engine spec/weight to balance the rear, which is the uniqueness of our Premium Midship package.

    VIDEO 2

    Kurosawa gives go in R-mode(5:23-)
    K:OK, so I keep this(VDC switch) in this mode?
    M:There are 3-modes for the VDC. This is the normal mode(less front torque, traction control:high) for normal users which you just ran the last lap, and when this light is red it's in R-mode(more front torque,traction control:low) which applies more front torque than the normal mode.

    M:When you push down 2x, this is VDC off mode which cuts traction control. If you can, could you try a lap or two in R-mode and then at the main straight turn the VDC off.
    K:Oh, so you can change the settings while running?
    M:yes you can. Use them as you like.

    K<A BORDER="0" HREF=""><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/amazed.gif"></A>k, this is fast.

    In R-mode, with less traction control kicking in, the amount of traction steering increases allowing smoother and faster cornering. And now the VDC off mode. Thought the car shows a bit of oversteer, the limits are high. Even in the Sendai-Highland curciut infield section which is tough for heavy cars, need for turn-in angle is low and the car is stable. The car whips through the corners sensationally. A lap time of 2:03:90 was acheived in R-mode.

    K: Well in these limited conditions, Id say there arent many negative things about it. For a car thats 1740kgs, it really stops, turns well and the traction is good. If the car handled traction better during the up's and down's of the curciut, it would become even better. But I'd have to say you guys seemed to have done a great job, better than I thought and I think the car is great.

    -Are there any changes to the AWD system(3:53-)
    M:We not only use the system for transfering torque from rear to front, but we use it to force the car turn the way it's steered. By combining the low center of gravity from the PM package with the all new AWD, we are now able to make the car turn in by using the driving force/torque.

    M:With the Z, it was using the original AWD unit and getting the best out of it but still it was basically a FR car at the corners so the car had cornering Gs of 1.2-1.3G, whereas the new GT-R has additional inertial force from controling the center of gravity .The R35 can pull 1.8Gs on normal circuits and over 2Gs at places like the Nur. In terms of GTRs cornering Gs, you can see it's a foot in the area of racing cars.

    Its time to check the GTR's abilities at a curcuit.With the car having excellent weight distribution and low center of gravity thanks to the PM package, the GT-R turns corners faster than an ordinary FR car. With the mission/damper/VDC all set to normal, Kurosawa goes on the curcuit for a check run.(its been 6yrs since his last run @Sendai)

    (0:42-,K=Kurosawa M=Mizuno)
    K:I'm going in....oohhh, the course is still wet(from yesterday's snow).

    K:This is a well developed car... If the car was a bit more nimble through the left-right turn...but I can sort of understand the car torque steer....
    Traction steer is a new cornering performance given to the R35 GT-R. Due to the excellent turning/acceleration ability, the car enables you to step on the gas and turn before reaching the clipping point.

    K:hmmm...and the brakes are good too. The car is heavy at 1740kgs but they stop the car well.

    Time of 2:07:05 achived on normal mode settings.
    M:How was the car, how was the rigidity?
    K:It didnt seem to have a problem here(Sendai), I dont know how it'll do at the Nur.
    K:But the left-right combination turn after the chicane.....the car understeers badly. It would be better if there was more front grip when the car was going uphil, that could help counter understeer.

    M:When traction control kicks in, the car get off the throttle and loses front torque which was actually helping the car turn in, hence the understeer. But with the normal settings, for normal drivers and driving around the city we think that this is better, having a bit of a safty margin.
    K:yeah, I understand.

    M:Now when the car is in R-mode or with VDC off, the front should have torque which should pull the car around the corners, sort of like the car assisting you with the torque.
    K:I dont really know the course yet, so I'd like to save the rest of my comments for later.

    VIDEO 3

    K:IWell, Nissan claims this car is a "Multi-perfomance supercar" which may seem to be a greedy, but overall I think they can claim so. What I was surprised most is that the road/tyre noise was reduced(from the previous GT-R?). This is a FR based AWD car and though the car felt like a FR most of the time, riding the GT-R through the west part of Sendai-highland I noticed that there was a bit of nasty understeer through the left-right uphil section.

    K:I did tell the Nissan people about it, and with this high-tech AWD I wished it would have killed a bit of the understeer. In those conditions, the car felt like a AWD car with AWD-ish understeer showing up and it didnt feel that great. Thats a point I would like the them to refine. Also, personally, since I've drove a lot of cars at the Nur, if I had the chance I'd like to drive the GT-R there too.

    BestMotoring's well known high-speed camera shots(2:34-)
    To film the new R35 GT-Rs flat out run, we've pulled out a R33GT-R(*550hp fulltuned, ADVAN A048 265/35R18(GS) tyres) tuned by AutolandYamagata, a well known tuning company for Sedai-Highland raceway, as a camera car. The R35 GT-R was fitted with stock Dunlop RFTs. We told Gan-san that the camera car would adjust the gap so he just go flat out, but we never knew what was going to happen.

    K<A BORDER="0" HREF=""><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/amazed.gif"></A>ooooops. hey, I almost caught up with you....
    Uh, Gan-san? We cant film you if you pass us ya understand? The camera car goes ahead braking into the corner, and we should get a great closeup shot of the R35.......errrr, the new GT-R passed the full-tuned camera car? So we had to give up our high-speed camera shots.....Gan-san goes on and dows his time attack of 2:02

    That's about all the translation I've done. I'm too lazy and havent checked my work, sorry if I missed anything or if I screwed up. And I wont be doing anymore, obviously because I'm too lazy :p

  18. Not that particular remark. It was quite funny. For a German. But I've seen you hate on BM more often for no reason.
  19. I think I'd still have a 997 turbo over this.
  20. homo
  22. -1
  24. #174 jalic21, Sep 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  25. #175 Guibo, Sep 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    LOL, great bump. This thread is so hilarious. The 7:38 time was validated (in a car that weighed 30kg more than the claimed figure, no less) and yes, the GT-R is an 11-second car. Curiously, ajzahn's translation doesn't match up with the one here:

    HvS never said 7:50 was the GT-R's true potential, did he?

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