Re: FINALLY, I NATURALLY ASPIRED AMERICAN CAR WITH 100HP/L!!!!!

Discussion in '2002 Cadillac Cien Concept' started by SHK, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. #101 Mick GR, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Right, listen up dumb-ass, I've searched for proof, just for you, that the Cerbera Speed 12 is for sale, and that it costs £150,000. Visit this site. http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/cerbera/gt2_2.htm You can't argue with the facts, there it is, PROOF. So show some respect next time to those who know more than you. You came in here flapping your lips, saying you knew the shit, saying how wrong I was, well there you go, argue with that. Damn, I love proving people like you wrong, it feels sooo good. How's it feel to be shown up like this. Next time show a little more respect.
     


  2. You know, it amazes me that people like you can come to a site like this and say the shit that you do. You talk as if you know the subject, but it's obvious you don't. Blatantly obvious. You say that the factors determining horsepower are torque and rpms. That's rubbish. You also say that horsepower per litre is un-important, more rubbish. Torque describes the turning ability of the engine, how strongly it can pull throughout it's rev-range, this is determined by the power output of the engine, the size of the engine, and it's efficiency. As for the RPM's, they do give more power the more revs you've got, up to a point. Some engines peak horsepower can be as low as 3000rpm, while others like the S2000 peak close to 8500rpm, Hell, the Blitz Nissan skyline peaks at 9300rpm. Another thing, horsepower per litre is very important. A Dodge Viper RT/10 and a TVR Cerbera Speed 12 both have 8.0 litre engines, both are normally aspirated. However the Viper only developes 415bhp while the Cerbera Speed 12 generates 800bhp. That's 50bhp/litre for the Viper and 100bhp/litre for the Cerbera. A Veilside Supra developes over 300bhp/litre. Think before you post all of this 'made-up' shit, it only makes you look bad.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    "You know, it amazes me that people like you can come to a site like this and say the shit that you do. You talk as if you know the subject, but it's obvious you don't. Blatantly obvious. You say that the factors determining horsepower are torque and rpms. That's rubbish."

    Horse Power = (Torque x RPMs) divided by 5252. Obviously you didn't know that. When you dyno a car, horse power is CALCULATED using torque and RPMs. Or example, when a car reaches 4000RPM if the torque is 300ft lbs, the horse power will be 228 at 4000RPM. (300 x 4000)/5252. After you reach the PEEK torque, the RPMs continue to rise and the torque begins to drop. Peek HORSE POWER will be at a higher RPM (even though the torque is falling) because the gain in RPMs more than makes up for the drop in torque. Eventually, the loss of torque will be a larger factor than the gain in RPMs. The apex of this curve is your peek horse power.

    When you decide to insult someone, you might want to think about not making yourself look like a dumb ass in the process.

    Oh, damn I hope you read this! <!-- Signature -->
     
  3. Brown Doggie, hypocritical maybe but it also has a point. You talk about being learned and that you only have informed discussions. Your words in your last few posts have been a far cry from anything that represents an informed discussion. Mick GR gives you some flak, and then you just fling more back at him, and why? Because you have to have the last word? Because you can't be wrong? Really it doesn't matter. It's pathetic one way or the other.

    Out.

    P.S. Honestly, do you think anybody really cares even a bit about what you're saying?
     
  4. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from MF1LM</i>
    <b>Brown Doggie, hypocritical maybe but it also has a point. You talk about being learned and that you only have informed discussions. Your words in your last few posts have been a far cry from anything that represents an informed discussion. Mick GR gives you some flak, and then you just fling more back at him, and why? Because you have to have the last word? Because you can't be wrong? Really it doesn't matter. It's pathetic one way or the other.

    Out.

    P.S. Honestly, do you think anybody really cares even a bit about what you're saying?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Being that you're flinging flak about BrownDoggie's flak flinging, aren't you in a sense, also being hypocritical?<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. I guess I am. Point well taken, and very well put indeed. Thanks for seeing that.

    Out
     
  6. #106 SeansVette, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Mick GR</i>
    <b>By the way, it is you who is wrong about the Vipers Horsepower. Go to the car search on this website, type Dodge Viper RT/10, click on the model it brings up and you will see that it has 415BHP. Sorry, but you are wrong.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Go to http://dodge.com/viper/index.html

    It's 450bhp. Hey, maybe you're right and DODGE is wrong about the DODGE Viper. <!-- Signature -->
     
  7. u know, u should never say things like 'it feels so good proving ppl wrong'...when the person ur arguing with comes up with a post like this...

    the british gt championship has a different set of rules to the FIA GT championship, thats y cars like Quaifes, Stealths, Ultimas, even Lancia Stratos replicas, can race in the british gt championship, the rules of the FIA GT championship state that the cars must be built to the ACO rules, thats y FIA GT cars run at Le Mans and y brit GT cars dont.

    y didnt u tell me to go to TVRs own official website??....was it because u know already that theres no mention of a road-going Speed 12 to buy?...also funny how its not in their official price list and hasnt been since the car was shown at Earls Court in 1999...and the guy from the Prodigy ordered an original speed 12, not the cerbera speed 12, but never took delivery

    Only 1 of the cars built is a road-going model, all others were production prototypes, the 1 road-going model is the metallic maroon 1 on this website, license plate W112 BHG

    now in future dipshit, wait until the discussion is over before declaring yourself the winner
     
  8. Oh sorry, I thought the conversation was over. Anyway I win, you lose, lick my toes f-uck-wit. Are you saying that the pistonheads website is wrong. One of the biggest TVR info spots on the web. The website which scooped the first ever pictures of the Cerbera Speed 12. The website which was invited to cover the launch of the speed 12. I think not. I think you're just saying what you want to beleive, and not accepting the facts for what they are.
     
  9. Look at this logically. If there are road going versions then it should be set on the manufactureres website rite? The site you gave is like a magasine site or lover site. Alot of those sites have BS!! The make up alot of shit. Hell with digital editing, I can say I a production model of the goddamned batmobile!!
    If ya really wanna know...someone call up the manufacturer and ask!


    DA PUN<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. Mick GR, it's funny how you can say an educated person like Chicane is a half-wit while, at the SAME TIME, displaying your own ignorance of the subject by continuously stating that HP/Liter is a relevant figure. Allow me to elaborate:

    John Deere lawn mower, 50cc, 12 HP. 240 HP/Liter.

    "Hey, if John Deere made 2.0 liter cars, they'd have 480 horsepower!!" Not quite. Even comparing this figure between engines of the same volume is irrelevent. The Speed 12... turbocharged, am I correct? If not, you can call me a half-wit. It's OK. Anyway, whenever you supercharge an engine, you essentially increase the displacement by pre-compressing the air. IE: A 5.0-Liter engine with a 6-gauge roots-style blower (141 cubic inches) would basically be a 443-cubic inch motor now, or 7.2 Liters.

    Even with two Naturally Aspirated motors of the same size, saying that one has a greater Specific Output is about as intelligent as saying "Look, Jebediah, dat der car's got more power outa same size engin!!" Expecially when one's a ten-cylinder motor and one's a twelve-sylinder motor. Engine dynamics, my friend, engine dynamics.

    The Z06 Corvette pulls a full G on the skidpad and has the highest Sllom of any other production automobile (except for the $180,000 GT2, yeah, yeah, shutup, ch1). So whatever corner it was you were talking about, I am convinced that the Vette could take it just fine, better than any Ferarri or Lambo.

    "Car Craft," January 2002, page 68: "When they were new, the Z28 and WS6 cars were among some of the best-handling machines ever to grace the performance car market." So yes, the "heavier" Z28 with a Solid Axle handles quite well, thank you, and runs LOW 13's stock. Guess what? A stock '01 Ford Lightning runs mid-high 13's, has a .86g skidpad, and wieghs 4500lbs, more than twice what the S2000 weighs, thank you. And it handles great (for a 2-ton truck). So whoever says American cars can't handle needs to come up with a better objection than that.

    Post after post, Chicane and Sean's Vette were referred to as idiots. Funny, as the last intelligent post I read was between those two. Coming on here and calling these obviously informed, intelligent people that they're idiots, and then continuing to spout bullshit like it was Carbon Dioxide, you have managed to make one person, and one person only, look like an idiot.

    Yourself.
     
  11. Do you guys even know what you're arguing anymore?

    I didn't feel like reading all that, so I'm just gonna post what I first thought of when I read the topic... HP/l doesn't matter... shutup about it. Try that s2000 (cuz im sure it was mentioned a thousand times) on the torque-per-litre and see what happens. It was designed just like a motorcycle engine, nothing special...

    I did catch someone saying that the viper has 415 horsepower. maybe in california with that emissions crap? Otherwise your way off...
     
  12. Brown Doggie, why don't you f-uck off out of my face, you must be butt-buddies with these guys here. I'm not making shit up, I am stating what I've learnt over many years, studying, reading constant automotive articles, magazines, tech books etc. I know the mechanics of the subject matter here. When I see someone make false comments, I correct them. If they don't like that then that's their problem. By the way, the Speed 12 is not turbo-charged, it doesn't need to be, it relies on TVR's own engineering brilliance to produce this horsepower.
     
  13. Listen Gents, would you guys just stop the 'I'm an 8 year old girl and I'm always right' nonsense and just give it a rest? My God, go find yourselves a girlfriend or something, anything, just stop with all the petty bickering. Frankly, it doesn't make a bit of difference who's right. Neither of you holds a top office position at TVR, so until you do, why don't you leave the present condition and future of the Speed 12 up to TVR, ok?

    Out
     
  14. Good idea, leave the non-produced Speed 12 out of this.

    Mick GR, getting overly defensive just makes you look worse. All your "countless reading magazines and studying tech manuals" obviously hasn't helped you a damn bit, because HP/Liter still doesn't mean shit. I work on cars, that's where I get my knowledge.

    If you've "done your research" so much you must know that due to the exponential nature of HP production, HP/Liter is an irrelevant number. Why are you arguing otherwise? You're not even arguing anymore, just calling people "butt buddies." There's an intelligent objection if I've ever heard one.

    Some of us are learned about our subjects, and when we "argue" it take the form of an imformed discussion, not a mud-slinging heresay competition. If you have nothing informed to say, and you get proven wrong with fact, too #$%#ing bad. But if have an intelligent arguement (how about some proof to back up that Specific Output means Jack?), please, show us where we went wrong.

    And to everyone else: if all you have to say is "geez, guys, you are all stupid to argue," you might as well just not post anything, a statement like that is purely hypocritical in it's creation anyway.
     
  15. Just to clear up the Viper bhp arguement, whether the RT/10 has 415 or 450 bhp depends on what model year you are talking about. When the GTS was introduced in 1996, the RT/10 had 415 bhp. The RT/10 was upgraded with the GTS engine in 1997, and since then the RT/10 has had 450 bhp. Notice this site has 4 different model years for the RT/10, the newest being the 2003. Clicking on the 1996 model shows 415 bhp, while clicking on the 2000 or 2001 models shows 450 bhp. I hope this settles it.

    Out
     
  16. MF1LM, just so I can have the last word:

    Yes, It's true I can carry out the discussion well past a sane point. But in reading my arguements, I have backed up everything I have said with either mathmatical proof or referenced objections. Not simply claiming that someone must be somebody else's "butt buddy" simply because they agreed with that person.

    May your fasicious anti-flak-flinging flak-flinging be as fullfilling and frustration-relieving as mine.
     
  17. Spoken like a true gentleman. ;) May the flak-flinging of all sorts live forever. (in moderation and temperment of course)
     
  18. *Sigh*...ok...give it up you guys!! Geez!!

    This is a Caddy room..wanna talk bout TVR..go there!!!

    DA PUN<!-- Signature -->
     
  19. #119 Dolby109, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Well, Mick I was wrong about the Speed 12's price. I was going by memory...and it aparantly served me wrong (very wrong actually).
    I think of the Speed 12 as a supercar. And I think we can agree that the greater portion of its competition does cost around $800,000+.
    But it is produced...look here http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/2000speed12.html

    I still don't understand why hp/liter is relivant? If anything it is bad to have high hp/liter. Why? Because that means the engine is allready tuned. It would be a lot more expensive to get 50 more hp out of the S2000's engine than an LS1.
    I allready stated this, but you seemed to ignore it...so I will one more time...
    An LS1 produces more power than Honda's 2.0L engine, gets better gas milage, is cheaper to produce, and will probably last longer, considering it is not stressed. The only single advantage of the 2.0L engine is weight and size. However the LS1 more than makes up the weight in its hp advantage. I can understand that having a 2.0L 240hp engine is nice. It would be very cool to cram one in the Lotus Elise, and double its hp.
    But why is an S2000 better with a 240hp 2.0L engine, than say a 240 hp 3800 Series 2? Can you tell me?(they produce 200-210 stock, I have seen a N/A 3800 with 425hp, so it can easily be tuned to 240, or 250)

    Granted I would rater have an 8L engine with 800hp, than a 16L engine with 800hp, but that is just getting rediculous.
    To a certain point, I see no reason to have a small engine tuned to produce lots of power, over a slightly, or greatly larger engine, other than size (if its the biggest engine that will fit).

    I think I have about prooven my point.<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. Ummmmm....yeah...sweet...a 240hp Elise...Weeee! =)

    But the reason why they dun stuff the 3800 Series III in a Honda is that it weighs alot and well throw the balance of the car off.
    The S2000 is designed with a near if not 50/50 weight ration. But in a 3800 Series III and you'll have a very heavy front end with a light back end which houses the drive wheels. Bad combo there unless you like showing off and burning tires.

    Other thing is that the 2.0Lcan rev much higher...which gives you more of a roadster/F1 feeling which is what the S2K was designed for.

    As for the TVR Speed 12...what countries are they legal in?!!

    DA PUN<!-- Signature -->
     
  21. TVR Speed 12s arent street legal ANYWHERE, theyre concept cars and were never produced, 100 different websites could say that theyre production cars, but TVRs official website says its NOT, and theyve never been on their price list...sorry folks

    i love TVRs and wish they were produced, but theyre not
     
  22. whoop pit dee fuking doo dah day it's a fricking automatic
     
  23. Well...no wonder me no see TVR Speed 12's on the streets =P
    I live in Canada..and I think I've seen on Cerbera...das it.

    Anyhow, what's wrong with a Automatic? Ever see F1 cars?...same tranny buddy. If the Schumacher Brothers, Colin McRae, Tommi Makkinen, Richard Burns all don't mind Semi-Autos...then I won't either =P

    DA PUN<!-- Signature -->
     
  24. why are autos so much worse than manual? granted they're less fun to drive, and there's some factor (torque converter? i'm not sure so i won't make myself look stupid by saying anything) that robs it of power, but an automatic shifts gears faster than most human drivers, which counts for alot in things like 1/4 mile and 0-60 etc which only last a few seconds...
     
  25. True, but a manual allows you to coax(Sp?) more RPMs out of an engine and thus higher top speeds, acceleration, etc. Also, a manual allows you to shift gears more efficiently while decelerating which is incredibly important on road courses where a high-revving GT or Formula engine might need to go from 5th or 6th gear to 2nd or 3rd in a very short time range(seconds at most). <!-- Signature -->
     

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