18 cyl in W shape?

Discussion in '2000 Bugatti 18/4 Veyron Concept' started by carkid9, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    I said some of that stuff too and they still bother to argue I even posted a link.
     
  2. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    umm i think the 18 is for cyliders and the 4 is for the 4 wheel drive trust me
     
  3. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    I don't mean to be mean, but HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Are you suggesting that the Chiron 18/3 is a THREE-wheel drive? =) There was another three wheel drive recently..a Peugeot rally car which had broken one of it's driveshafts...

    Anyway, I am inclined to believe everyone who said this is three i-6's joined together - makes the most sense, and should require relatively little balancing as an i-6 is inherently smooth (ie. virtually no vibration because of the design).

    Yes, a V-5 exists in the Bora V5 (as it's known in Australia - basically a golf with a boot), and Volvo makes an I-5. Volvo's engine is not so bad since it's INLINE, therefore it doesn't really upset balancing too much, although consider it's length? 5 cylinders in line is probably too long to justify its existence over a V-6? Anyway, VW spent MILLIONS trying to balance that V-5 and for what?? It's not particularly more powerful than a 2.3L I-4, and it's been said to have "character" but so what? The inherent unbalance will surely take it's toll over time!?! So yes, you COULD have two V-9's but that would be terribly difficult to balance out the vibrations - although perhaps they would work against each other to balance it out? (which would place alot of stress on static parts in between, again bad)

    ANYWAY, as has been said several times, it's clear this engine is 3 I-6's so case closed.
     
  4. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    I think the W shape is like this, you have two cylinders on the outside with one in the middle. so it kinda makes a W shape. buti dont know, this is purely a guess
     
  5. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    mate. its not all about horsepower, the weight of this car is #$%#ing light! thats why it does 0-100km/h in like 2.5sec! Its an amazing car no matter what way you look at it. but yeah it looks kinda gay, probs have to grow on you. but yeah i would prefer a zonda anyday.
     
  6. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    It does, but that would be unbalanced. It would shake itself to pieces.
    The configuration of the engine is 3 I-6s, looking like this from the front: \l/.
     
  7. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    You're forgetting something rather important...

    First of all, just because an inline-6 on its own is inherently smooth doesn't mean the firing order of an odd number of I-6 cylinder banks isn't impossible to work out. The inherent vibration is an absolute bugger - the Bugatti EB-118 press car was rev-limited to 3000rpm and even then reviewes found the idle and engine vibration a bit lumpy.

    If a V5 can be done then a V9 is certainly possible (though admittedly bizarre). Setting two of them up on a common crank would allow the firing order to be set in such a way that the vibration from each bank would offset the other and cancel it out as is done with V-8 engines.

    The result would be an engine with four banks of cylinders and a total of 18 (a V-10 and V-8 joined at the hip, if you like).

    Presumably, in this configuration:

    0 = 0 = 0 = 0 = 0
    = 0 = 0 = 0 = 0 =
    = 0 = 0 = 0 = 0 =
    0 = 0 = 0 = 0 = 0

    Think of it as a narrow V-8 nested within a wide V-10 on the same crankshaft. Each of those engine configurations is stable on its own, why shouldn't they be stable in parallel? Plus, the firing order would not be a problem. You could do the same with a V-6/V-8 pair and end up with a 14 cylinder engine. or a V-10/V-12 and go for 22 cylinders. ;->

    In the end, Bugatti decided to keep the banks symmetrical and opted for 2 V-8s for a total of 16. Hence the "16/4" designation.

    p.s. Bugatti (the modern incarnation) has traditionally used five-value heads so ther's no point in arguing that the "4" refers to the number of valves. The "72-valve W18" entry on this car is a typo by the Supercars people (and not the first). A W18 would have 90(!) valves.
     
  8. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    the engine goes like this..... im pretty sure its flat 2


    0=0=0=0=0=0
    0=0=0=0=0=0
    0=0=0=0=0=0
     
  9. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    No, that's the 18/3 engine which they abandoned as three-bank engines proved unworkable.

    the 18/4 prototype utilized an engine with 18 cylinders in four banks.
     
  10. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    Point taken. =) I didn't think of it that way (as in a v8 and v10)... wonder what it would sound like? =)
     
  11. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    I think you people are reading too much into the name. The engine is the same 6X3 18 cylinder used in the Chiron. Why 18:4?
    Why did BMW label its 4.4 the 745?
    Why did mercedes label its 2.4 the C 2.6?
    Why did Mercedes label its 5.8 litre v12 (now abolished) the S600? Its just a name.
     
  12. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    Let me ask you a question. Who told you it was the same engine?

    I ask because I have documentation from Bugatti on the car in question and the engine does, according to Bugatti's engineers, have four banks of cylinders and is different from the three-bank engine used in the 18/3. I also have an old car magazine somewhere that has the writeup on the car from its debut at the Frankfurt Motor Show which I read with my German/English dictionary on my knee. It also describes the engine as having four banks of cylinders.

    They abandoned the three-bank engine concept because it was impossible to get it to run smoothly so they went to a four-bank design to try to smooth it out. This proved to be infintely better and even though VAG's marketing people could have liked the car to have 18 cylinders so they could make history as the production engine with the most pistons, the engineers won out and convinced them that the the 16-cylinder variation allowed the best power:weight ratio and solved some big packaging problems at the same time.
     
  13. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    uhmmm... right....
     
  14. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    i think it would be somethin like this

    O=O=O=O=O=O
    O=O=O=O=O=O
    O=O=O=O=O=O

    three i-6 connected at the bottom


    like this

    \|/
    -o-
     
  15. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    That's the engine design used on the 18/3. Bugatti abandoned it because they couldn't get three banks of six cylinders to run smoothly so they went to a four-bank design.

    0=0=0=0=0
    =0=0=0=0=
    =0=0=0=0=
    0=0=0=0=0

    As you can see - a four-bank engine with 18 cylinders...
     
  16. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    a v10 with a v8 inside
     
  17. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    how else would you fit in 18 cylinders otherwise. Not in a V formation that would mean 9 cylinders in each row compared to 4.5 cylinders in row
     
  18. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    I have to agree with you ,I guess.The idea of three rows of I-6s can't work because that doesn't explain the W16 or W8.You can't put 16 cylinders in three balanced rows and the same goes for 8.Also, you can't put 18 cylinders in four rows.So your explanation is theonly one that makes sense to me,that is unless there are 2 variations of the W engine.
     
  19. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    The 18 cylinder unit is possible, for all those who think that an engine needs equal banks, the crankshaft would easily accomodate the extra cylinder, as for the engine in whole, the extra cylinders would be located in the centre, to a) Balance the engine (Most odd cylinder engines are mounted tranversely), and b) to apply more downward energy to the crankshaft (therefore more power)
     
  20. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    I have the correct answer

    Bugatti engines are made in either v's or This "w" shape
    It isn't actually in a w shape though. It is simply 3 rows of v6's

    Kinda like this \|/

    Not like this VV

    Bugatti's way is more efficient and Powerful
    Thats why I have shown as much intrest as I have
     
  21. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    ---
    I have the correct answer

    Bugatti engines are made in either v's or This "w" shape
    It isn't actually in a w shape though. It is simply 3 rows of v6's
    ---

    No, you don't have the correct answer. Bugatti was never able to get their three-rows-of-six cylinders to fire smoothly. This engine has four banks of cylinders and is based on the same basic premise that allowed VW to make their V-5 engines work...

    Only this one has 18 cylinders in four banks - which is much more stable than 18 cylinders in three banks.
     
  22. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    heard of a inline-5?
     
  23. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    I'm new here and love this site!!!

    I dont think that an odd number of cylinders exist like V-5,7,9 and so on, because it would be uneven. But if it does exist I dought they much because it is barely seen anywhere right?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    heard of a inline-5
     
  24. Re: 18 cyl in W shape?

    I'm new here and love this site!!!

    I dont think that an odd number of cylinders exist like V-5,7,9 and so on, because it would be uneven. But if it does exist I dought they much because it is barely seen anywhere right?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    heard of a inline-5 it is common
     
  25. 0-0-0-0-0-0
    0-0-0-0-0-0
    0-0-0-0-0-0
    3 inline 6 engine side by side, outer 2 has about 45 drgee of tilt and the middle inline 6 gose stright down.
    not W but \|/
     

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