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Discussion in 'American Cars' started by GT40 2, Sep 21, 2004.
u brought jokes. both are amazing trucks, but the ford handles better, and with a pulley is in the 12's but that's a whole diff argument
Unfortunately for Ford fans that V10 has worked and has been a thorn in Ford's ass for many years. For as long as the VIper has been around Ford has failed to answer, until now. Thats a long time that Ford sat on their asses and let Dodge have all that. At least Chevy was in there scrapping it out with their higher model Vettes, getting at least a nibble of the market up there closer to the Viper. Now that Ford has a great recipe with the GT, chevy is the one who must now answer, and I am sure they will, mabye louder than many of us can imagine.
that new top speed record isnt a joke as we all know.
is there a test out where they tested the handling of the new lightning? I would like to see it.
yeah, i agree with that. the new vette holds its own though it's a 12 sec car for 45k that's insane
I agree with that totally, that new C6 is totally awesome
Ever heard the addage, "Can't make a whore into a housewife,"?
Exactly that, the LA-series of Chrysler V8s links back to the muscle car era and not much has changed with them. That is the same approach the Viper Team took to it, change as little as possible. They tacked on two extra cylinders and borrowed some engine building tricks from Formula 1 and called it an exotic engine, or at least it is so hailed by it's fanboys.
Ford saw the light, drop the decades old designs and start anew. They did that almost a decade ago now.
I've never heard the Viper v10 called exotic. Both trucks are sweet, all of a sudden this turns into a Dodge vs. Ford thing. A 2006 Lightning test mule was seen, sweet. Nothing of Dodge needs to be mentioned. This thread could have been sweet, but it turned to shit.
if it works dont fix it The Viper works and has worked. About time the GT came along.
You still haven't mentioned any actual problem with the engine, the LA-series was well ahead of it's time when first introduced, and has always been pretty successful. Yeah, wedge head isn't the ideal combustion chamber design, but the engine does it's job pretty well.
Looking through Ford's concept labs, they didn't care to answer. They show no signs of attempting to answer or even considering doing so. Ford let Cosworth and Noble have all the fun with the answers. Hell Noble had the most fun, taking an engine with 4 less cylinders, nearly 3 times less displacement than the 8.3L, making less power, yet accomplishing all the same as the Viper. How did they accomplish that? Was it by not using a 40 year old engine design? Maybe one actually designed and perfected in the 90s?
Last time I checked the only people comparing Vettes and Z06s to Vipers were magazine bench racers like yourself. There is a solid $30,000 difference between the two.
First of all, dont get all riled up, relax
I only mentioned a little of the Viper's market in reality. Actually Z06 can actually compare to a Viper in some aspects, very few but on some tracks im sure it wouldnt be that far off..
Hey, I dont race on a twisty track, I dont care to say it. Are you saying your a racer of the track? Legit question, dont take it the wrong way.
It almost looks like your saying Noble has a 4 cylinder car in competition with the Viper. Isnt that the age old hp/liter argument that has been shown not to matter for the Viper because of its sheer power and reasonable weight regardless??? Please explain the relevance of that comparision.
And if you dont think the Ford GT is a good slap in the face of Dodge then what Ford is a better slap???yes, i know it costs more.
You actually dont think Ford had visions of beating the SRT-10 Viper when creating the Ford GT? Imagine if it was slower and youll see what im getting at and tell me how that would make you feel as a Ford fan.
and by old technology do you mean 2 valve pushrod? Is that the basis of your ancient technology arguement?
Yes I have been to the tracks, no I have not raced my car there yet.
10 - 4 = 4? No it equals 6. Ford's Duratec V6, 3.0L, twin turbo making around 325 hitting low-12s, high-11s and even Jeremy Clarkson loves the car. Not to mention it costs the same as the Viper and is in the same performance class.
its late, i made a mistake in cylinders. How heavy is this car your talking about? Actually what car are you referring to exactly?
Jesus, ill take a modded twin turbo supra for that matter, and it wont cost as much as a viper either...but thats another story of course.
....Anyways, im sure people that buy those cars and Vipers have different motivations, way different.
The car (Noble M12 GTO 3R) is just over 2,400 lbs, tieing in close to the Viper's weight, again, with about 200 less horsepower and torque, it hits 60MPH faster, and absolutely spanks the Viper in a dash to 100.
As for the engine arguement question, no that's not my basis, its the fact they are using a tired old engine family that has seen little to no innovation and design. Hell even Chevy knows you have to redesign them every so often to keep up with the Jones'.
yes, the noble, its nice.
im curious, how long was the LS1 engine in production. are you referring to the V10 for Dodge?
I cant think theres too much core difference in technology between an LS2 6 liter and the new HEMI from Dodge.
Keep in mind that the new 6.1 liter HEMI in the 300C SRT-8 will have 100cc more displacement than an LS2 and 25 more horses.
That guy said it put a buslength on a Z06, bullsh!t. I'm sure it will be faster than an SRT Ram, it pretty much has to be.
The SRT-10 Viper weighs 3,400 pounds so they arent the same weight the Viper is a whole 1,231 pounds heavier then the Noble. And the M12 GTO 3R is 2,169 pounds and packs 360BHP, it has a much better power to weight ratio then the Viper so it should accelerate faster then it. As far as spanking is concerned I have yet to see tests showing a stock GTO 3R to be faster then an SRT-10 Viper. Is any part of your post based on fact?
that was shelby's complaint when he designed it. they had a 2500lb car and sent it to dodge and got back a 3100 lb car.
I guess Noble and their owners must be lieing... there are hundreds of runs all posted over the Internet.
1,231 lbs heavier and how much more horsepower and torque?
great truck i think it would compete well with a hemi ram.
The Silverado SS owns both of them. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/cool.gif"></A>
it has different gearing, big whoop.
don't kill me, but the SRT-10 looks a hell of a lot better than this.
The Noble also has much shorter gearing than the Viper, and a 20mph lower top speed, giving the SRT-10 one of the optional lower ratio ring and pinions available from Mopar would easily make up the difference. Besides, I live in America, where the M12 can only be bought as a rolling chassis for 56k, 65 for the M400. I could get a whole C6 Corvette complete with engine and drivetrain, and about 85% of the performance, plus more real world useability, for less than that.