424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

Discussion in '1985 Peugeot 205 T16 Group B' started by RadoMan, Aug 10, 2002.

  1. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from ch1c4n3</i>
    <b>Homero, u dont know jack about the T16

    300hp my ass, do u have any clue at all about cars??

    groub B rally cars had 500-600hp in the mid 80s, i have a road test of a 205 T16 from an italian magazine in which it did 0-100kph(62mph) in 2.9sec....2.9 SECONDS!!!, u seriously think it could do that with a pitiful 300hp

    aswell as that ive got a book in which Juha Kankkunen (u probably dont even know who that is) says he drove a T16 with 550hp and got wheelspin on all 4 wheels in 3rd gear....i think he should know how much power HIS car has got</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The power ratings for these cars were often drastically underreported. In some stages, the cars were tuned to upwards of 700hp. I'd say the average range for how much they shorted the HP ratings was between 100 and 150. This was a 550-600 hp car.

    PS-Don't flip out, man. Homero, as far as I've seen, knows plenty about cars.<!-- Signature -->
     
  2. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    ok 'GroupBRules' and homero, since i posted first in this forum out of him and i, it was ME who was talking about the rally version, which is of course street legal

    therefore i am right to say the street legal rally version has 550hp, its pretty pointless to then argue that the road version only has 200...yes i know it has but since when were we talking about the road version???
     
  3. Re: No Way!

    Ah well LanciaDeltaS4, this is your site? Quite good, i think it' s the only website in the world providing good and fast information and pictures of group b :)

    By the way, in F1 turbo cars (i don't know if they used it in group b cars as well) even water injection was used to decrease combustion temperatures and the tendency of self-ignition (like a diesel) of the fuel given such massive boosts.
     
  4. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from ch1c4n3</i>
    <b>ok 'GroupBRules' and homero, since i posted first in this forum out of him and i, it was ME who was talking about the rally version, which is of course street legal

    therefore i am right to say the street legal rally version has 550hp, its pretty pointless to then argue that the road version only has 200...yes i know it has but since when were we talking about the road version???</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    hmmmmm.

    In order to compete in any type of rally the manufacturers had to build a number of road going versions of the car to satisfy FIA homologation requirements. In the case of Group B the number was 200 examples.

    Of these examples a number of cars would ahve been bought straight away by the works teams and prepared for Group B rallying. Depending on the manufacturer in question the remaining cars woul dhave been either held for parts and development or sold to private buyers.
    Some of these cars were given full interior, seats, carpets etc and were sold as 'Road Cars'.

    Don't confuse these 'Road Cars' with the 'Rally Cars which also happen to be road legal'.

    OThe rally cars were prepared for competition use, with upwards of 500BHP, whereas the 'Road Cars' are cars built to sell and help finnance the rallying project and had a trim level closer to road cars and an engine which was obviously tuned for a balance between power and reliability. The 'Road Cars' were never built to race.

    So the road cars and the rally cars are different enough to be classed apart and there is no point in comparing them.<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    stollentroll, the Audi Sport Quattro at least used water injection as a form of cooling, im not sure about the other cars though

    in Formula 1, i think it was merely tested, in an interview Paul Rosche, BMW engine designer said they had tried it but it didnt work particularly well, instead they used a different kind of fuel, from WW2 rocket-powered fighter planes, and the detonation was gone

    since rally cars are street legal, this kind of fuel is not allowed, regular gasoline was used...correct me if im wrong on this
     
  6. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from goku</i>
    <b>rice burners rule</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    no they don't

    and, you obviously have no clue what a "ri-ce burner" is. A ri-ce burner specifically refers to a normal japanese economy car, that's had the owner put pathetic little fart exhausts and rear wings, and those really stupid looking rims. THAT is a ri-ce burner.

    this car definetely does not fit into that catagory, now does it?<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    It's called Turbocharging

    How did you think they got 750BHP from the RS200 before it was banned?
    That's over 300HP/liter for a i-Four
     
  8. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    I still want to see the Vauxhall Chevette HSR or HS on here....grrrr
     
  9. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    750bhp before it was banned?? Where do you get your info from?
     
  10. #35 The El Man, Aug 18, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    IN reply to the guy who said that "The STreet Legal T16 had 2/300 BHP" i think you mean the road version. In this case u are a fool as there wasnt one.

    You also are a fool as ALL RALLY CARS ARE ROAD LEGAL!!! They have to be as they must travel from stage to stage on normal roads.

    http://lameroad.topcities.com

    This car was the daddy of its time and still is.
     
  11. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    The "turbo lag" comments near the beginning of this thread are a little confusing to me. This Pug is a pure race car, designed to be driven at 10/10ths all the time. When are you going to encounter turbo lag in a race car? If you let your revs get that low, you just lost anyway... at that point, turbo lag is the least of your worries.
     
  12. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    Actually, if you think about it. Driving at 10/10s in such a car, in such conditions is asking for suicide....which did happen. Why? Because at the insane speeds these little things ran at, something slight were to go wrong, you wouldn't have the time to react. And with the roads these cars run/ran on, you relied on your co-driver to feed you information about the turn...problem is, Co-driver's cannot calculate if there is a deer waiting to jump in your path, 5 hours later.
     
  13. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    Point well taken.

    How I love a civilized thread...!
     
  14. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    I read those turbo's put out 4.0 bar of pressure, is that the same as 65psi?
     
  15. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    By the end of 1986 the best Group B cars, 205T16, Delta S4, RS200E were producing 600BHP but not much more. The Audi S1 was rumoured to be producing 700BHP.

    However Marku Alen says that the 87 Delta S4 (Known as the ECV Group S car) would have produced 700BHP reliably as would the new 205T16 and the new RS200E.

    Audi before they pulled out of the WRC early 1986 were developing a mid engined Group S Quattro (Group S was the class that was intended to replace GroupB, only 25 road cars needed to be produced).

    Kankunen said that the Peugeot engineers changed there emphasis from out and out power to drivability after the 205T16 reached 550BHP. The car was apparantly pretty undrivable with the on-off nature of the turbo engine.

    The new WRC cars are in fact prototypes. The WRC car is based on a road car/engine that has been produced in numbers of 25,000 or more. To this base car 4wd, turbo, aerodynamic devices and bodyshell modifications are made to make the WRC car. The WRC formula was introduced to encourage more manufactuers to enter 4wd rally cars. The homologation requirements of Group A (2500) road car versions of the rally car was very costly and put off manufactuers such as Peugeot and Citroen.

    The WRCs are fitted with 34mm turbo restrictors which limit power to a theretical 300BHP, however the best WRCs now produce in the region of 350BHP with huge amounts of torgue, 550NM+, that is even greater than the Group B cars.

    A WRC car can accellerate to 60MPH in 3.2 seconds and are far quicker over a rally stage than any Group B car, even on fast stages such as Finland. Drivers such as Kankunen and Alen have confirmed this even though they have not driven the best WRC cars in recent years. The technolgy in the transmission, engine etc. ensure amazing traction, accelleration and drivability with no turbo lag or understeer, which is associated with 4wd turbocharged cars.

     
  16. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    is there ever going to be a lancia stratos on this site? that was truly awesome car, it dominated before the introduction of 4WD. i know someone that went in the road version of it and said it was the most frightening experience in a car hes has ever had...<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  17. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    AMEN brother AMEN
     
  18. Re: 424bhp in a 1775 cc engine?

    power at a wider rpm range can reduce the need to shift gears all the time. gearchange takes time. With variable levels of traction, a usual situation on all rally stages, the rpm can shift quite abrupbtably up and down, with the gas pedal floored all the time. Sometimes, when the level of traction shifts from low to high, the wheels might have been spinning all the time, and when the car reaches the new surface, on which the tires grip better, the rpm will drop, and if the rpm falls outside the optimal range, on WRC cars usually between 6000 and 7000rpm, the car will accelerate slower and the driver must shift to a lower gear. Had the optimal rpm range been wider, the car would accelerate smoothly and predictably, making it easier for the driver to control the car in situations like a drift. Also, in case of a change in traction levels, the car would have no need to change gears to keep up the same level of acceleration.
     

Share This Page