800 tt vs. Speed 12

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by bmwm3gtr200, May 8, 2003.

  1. The Speed Twelve may be the fastest road car ever...
    Can the 800 tt keep up?
    I do not think so.
    What do you think?
     
  2. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    These are the only official factory numbers that I have been able to find. I return once again to my favorite source, Evo Magazine. In issue number 52, Febuarry 2003, they ran a story about the TVR Speed Twelve based on their interview with Peter Wheeler, a TVR chairman. He talked about in the article that the only power rating they have released is 940 bhp. They got that number from adding the output of the two straight sixes that make up the engine. The reason they do not have a dyno number for the car is this, the only time they have tested it on a dyno, it broke it. The engine was so powerful that at 5700 PPM's while throwing down 660 lb ft. of torque, it broke a dyno rated at 1000 bhp. The article also had the weight of the car, 1150kg. It also talks about the price they were going to ask for it was just 160,000 pounds, but production ideas were quickly killed off when they were unable to find any tires capable of handling the amount of power it laid down.

    Performance wise this car has never been tested period. If it has been, then someone should let TVR know about it.
     
  3. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    Does it matter if the Speed 12 is faster than the 800tt? The Speed 12 was never a road car.
     
  4. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    This thread has been done.

    Just look on page 6 of this forum, titled "800tt vs. cellebra speed 12" or something, thread.

    It was a 153post argument.
     
  5. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    YOU []!!!!!! YOU GOT THE IDEA FOR THIS FORUM OUT OF THE SPEED 12 FORUM!!!! AND IT WAS MY IDEA!!!!!!!!
     
  6. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    Acctually the Speed Twelve is a road car. It was never put into production though because it ws too extreme for the road. It is however road legal, and has been driven on the road on several occasions.

    So your question, "Does it matter if the Speed 12 is faster than the 800tt?" Well not realy, but like viper1426 said, this comparison has been done before, and from what I have heard the 800 tt was declared the winner in part because of performance numbers that are wrong about the Speed 12. And your reasoning, "The Speed 12 was never a road car," is not correct, read the previous paragraph again if you need justification.

    Viper1426, I realy do not care about what you guys concluded in the old forum. Anytime I see fabricated numbers being used as fact, I give no credibility to the conclusions made from those numbers.
     
  7. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    man if you would just stand up for what your posting for, then you might be considered a man. but since you cant even face the truth about you getting the forum off me then............you know what forget about it. i dont care. take the forum. you know what.....lets be best friends.............lol
     
  8. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    Okay, it was never a production car, and as such, it never faced production limitations. You couldn't buy a Speed 12 from TVR if you had the money. There is but one or two examples in existance. Pointless comparison, comparing what is basically a concept to a fully fledged road going production car. There are too many limitations that the speed 12 never faced to make this even worthwhile to compare.
     
  9. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    Viperphantom:

    "man if you would just stand up for what your posting for, then you might be considered a man. but since you cant even face the truth about you getting the forum off me then............you know what forget about it. i dont care. take the forum. you know what.....lets be best friends.............lol"

    Hey, I got the idea without looking in the Speed 12. I did not even know that the 800 tt was being compared to the Speed 12. so don't go jumping to conclusions first off, and you are not the first person to compare these two cars.
     
  10. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12


    Those were estimated numbers, and the only ones known for the speed12.

    Now if you don't go with those numbers, then the comparison has really nothing to go on, b/c without using those numbers, then your comparing a car never tested to one that is on the streets, and being sold.

    Now, on the "this car isn't the best thread" you said:

    "So until a reliable source shows another car to be the official record holder, the GT3 is the official record holder as far as any of us know. "


    So for this comparison: Until someone tests the speed 12, and shows the speed 12 to be faster, the 800tt is the official faster car as far as any of us know.

    <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  11. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    So what is the source for those estimated times? Based on the equations I have and the information the I have the car is capable of sub 3 sec. 0-60 times. The numbers posted there stated that they were based on an acctual test of the car. Seeing how it is impossible for anyone to have tested this car, those numbers are obviously made up.

    By the way, I do know that there are times in the Speed 12 forum credited to Evo Magazine. I have pretty much every Evo magazine. None of them has the Speed 12 tested in it. Not only that, but in the back issue ordering information part of the magazine, you do not see them talking about testing the car on the cover of the issue. Don't you think they may put a big story like that onn the cover, or at least mention it there.
     
  12. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    "Based on the equations I have and the information the I have the car is capable of sub 3 sec. 0-60 times."

    Well, the 800tt can do sub 3sec 60 times, at 2.43 to 60.

    Now b4 anyone says "that's from using slicks" well, keep in mind:

    For the TVR "they were unable to find any tires capable of handling the amount of power it laid down."

    SO, considering they're unable to find tires capable of handling the power, if they did test it, it would use street slicks now wouldn't it?

    <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  13. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    No, they won't test it instead. Also, the equations take into account a lack of grip, and other factors like that. I do not have the traction ratings on any "street slicks" so I can not run the equation with those numbers, but I am sure it would be quicker than if it did not have regualar tires.

    They were unable to find any tires capable of handling the power this thing laid down. Litteraly, the race version of this car, which produced 680, was almost to powerful for the racing tires. This is one hell of a crazy car, and remember, while the 800 tt maybe making 800 bhp, it is not getting that many to the wheels. The same goes for the Speed 12, however TVR is well known for having very stingy drivetrains that get up to 85-90% of the power to the wheels. That is amazing seeing how an average car only gets about 75% if that.
     
  14. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    "They were unable to find any tires capable of handling the power this thing laid down. Litteraly, the race version of this car, which produced 680, was almost to powerful for the racing tires. This is one hell of a crazy car, and remember, while the 800 tt maybe making 800 bhp, it is not getting that many to the wheels. The same goes for the Speed 12, however TVR is well known for having very stingy drivetrains that get up to 85-90% of the power to the wheels. That is amazing seeing how an average car only gets about 75% if that. "


    Now both the TVR and 800tt make basically 800HP.

    Now, in may 2001, in the motortrend issue, about the 800tt, they dyno the car at 725hp to the rear wheels. So take 800hp=100%, and 720hp=90%.

    So the 800tt like the TVR, gets 90% of its power to the rear wheels.

    Now before you say "n/a engine, and TT engine" (meaning turbo lag.) in the same motortrend issue, hennessey points out that becuase the viper has the biggest liter engine of any production car in the world (or considering its 488CI) B/C of that, and the turbos only running at 6psi, he points out, there is NO turbo lag.
     
  15. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    First off, the only horsepower numbers ever given out by TVR are that it has 940 bhp. They got that number by combining the power of the two straight sixes that make it up. Each one produces 470 bhp. They do not have a torque number however for it's max, but we do know that it was making 660lb ft of torque at 5700 rpm. The V12 in the racecar version of the Speed 12 were known to have large amounts of torque lower in the rpm's. Even though they produced less bhp than the street version is supposed to, the racecar engines were supposed to produce similar numbers to the street version.

    The true bhp number will never be known though. The reason for this is that the only time the engine has ever been on a dyno it broke it. At 5700 rpm, while producing 660lb ft of torque the drive shaft of a 1000 bhp rated dyno broke! the only other number for bhp that I have heard TVR talk about is 1000+ bhp based on the math, which is usually +/- 10 bhp.

    As for turbo lag, the 800 tt probably has none because the engine already makes a large amount of torque in the lowerend, and the turbo is probablky geared to run at a realy low rpm also. Also, the fact that the 800 tt has the largest displacement engine means nothing seeing how a car with a 7.7 liter V12 makes more horsepower, and is likely lighter.

    Teh TVR would kill the 800 tt on a track. In a straight line, the math says the TVR is in the same area as the 800 tt, but until TVR tests the 0-60 time and tells us we will never know. and 0-100, there is no chance for the 800 tt. 1/4 mile, the Speed Twelve is probably capable of low 9's and maybe even high 8 sec. passes. If we can get the 1/4 trap speed we can get bhp also.
     
  16. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    What makes you think that the Speed 12 would "kill" the 800TT on track?
     
  17. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    It -must- be the fact that only one exists and it's never been tested or even properly dynoed.
     
  18. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    Or it could be the fact that the racecar version of this car was amazingly fast, and it had 250+ fewer bhp. Plus the road version of the car is just a little softer in the suspension, but other than that it is the same as the racecar, it even has a FIA legal rollcage in it.

    Also, how do you know that only one exists? There are no known numbers on how many were made, but I have seen three different Speed 12's so far myself. That is more than one, still wouldn't be a reason why I would say a car is faster around the track though.
     
  19. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    Okay, more than one exists. Does that somehow change the fact that it is not a production car? Or that it was never sold to anyone? I still have to cringe reading your posts, because you seem to think this is a worthwhile comparison. The TVR Speed 12 is nothing more than a concept; Albeit a very fast one, but a concept none the less. If you can't see why concepts should not be compared to production cars, than there's no point in arguing with you.

    (Also, do you think the Speed 12 would put up great times if a magazine got their hands on it? More than likely it wouldn't, because it takes one hell of a driver to control a 22xxlb car with 900+hp and no traction control. A magazine tester would more than likely end up crashing before turning in a great lap time)
     
  20. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    "Or it could be the fact that the racecar version of this car was amazingly fast"

    On the first tvr vs. 800tt thread i posted this:

    "The TVR's did not beat the Vipers at LeMans. They lost, lost big time and then withdrew. The Vipers won LeMans 4 years straight, sometimes taking all the top positions. " (in thier class, but that's better than the TVR's breaking, and withdrawing)

    btw, i remember reading this at a lemans website, back when i posted this a couple months ago, so don't ask me for a link. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  21. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    ya......what he said......
     
  22. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    Speed 12 never raced at Le Mans. It wouldn't be able to because they never put it into production one so no GT classes. Two the only other class it could be in then is the prototype, and it doesn't meet the rule reqiurements for the prototype class. Also, a car breaking down at Le Mans is nothing new. Also, a car dropping out doesn't mean it is slower than the other car, just didn't last the entire length of the hardest road race in the world.

    I do believe you found times for a TVR at Le Mans though, probably the Cerbera RAcecar, which is very similar in styling to the Speed 12, the Speed 12's full name actually is TVR Cerbera Tuscan Speed 12. It probably has Cerbera in it's name because it's styling is based off the Cerbera. I recomend checking that site again to see if it is a Speed 12 or not that raced at Le Mans, and if it is a Speed 12, I will have to check my rule book again to see why it could be allowed to race. From what I have been able to understand though from reading the rules is that it would be an illegal car at Le Mans, and thus not allowed to race.
     
  23. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    So what if the racecar version was fast, the racecar version of the Vipers are extremely fast too, but we weren't talking about the racecar versions!
     
  24. Re: 800 tt vs. Speed 12

    Viper racecars are not as fast as the Speed 12, the only race that I have seen the Speed 12 run in was some GT championship in Europe. In that race it cruised to an easy victory over the rest of the field, which did include several Vipers. So seeing how a 680 bhp version of the Speed 12 has already beaten 700+ bhp Vipers, I would presume a Speed 12 with more power will be faster.

    There are ways of getting around the fact the road version of the Speed 12 has never been tested; look at the racecar, then remember that the road version has 250+ more bhp. So it does matter about how the racecar performs because it is or only benchmark to work off of for the Speed 12's performance. That, and the Speed 12 racecar has also gone up against Viper's, and beat them, so we must assume a more powerfull version will still do the same aswell. I know the 800 tt has more power than the race version of the Viper, but the Speed 12 racecar has less power than the Viper's do, and beat it. So now that it has more power by 140+ bhp over the 800 tt it must be even faster right?
     
  25. #25 Guibo, May 13, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016

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