Re: American Car Fans- READ Wow, you're dangerously close to being awarded a truly deserved award, nope, I generally only award one per month, but for you I'm going to make an exception, just because you fit the profile so perfectly. Garrett Turbochargers are the best available for production cars, however, as mentioned above, there are better aftermarket turbochargers used on some cars. BTW - name one car with a 2.5 litre engine, sporting a Garrett Turbocharger that produces upwards of 900hp WITHOUT any other power increasing mods. you suspect WHAT hit me by surprise? Your comment did nothing of the sort little boy. Nil means nothing, now, I'm sure you know more than that, despite the fact that you're currently not displaying that you do. Umm, DaimlerChrysler does NOT "own" Mitsubishi, they own a small portion of their stock (and it's not nearly as high as 34% despite what rumours your mullet wearing "pappy" may have heard while smoking the Chrysler head exec's butler's beef cigar), but pretty much have a working partnership with mitsubishi, which allows them access to some of Mitsubishi's technology, but Mitsubishi nevertheless still has complete control over what they use, and what direction their company takes. Besides, next to Honda, and Toyota, Mitsubishi is the third leading Japanese company that manufactures cars based on their own technology (they're the first of the three that uses outside technology, and their cars are the third most based on their own technology). *most weak and feeble voice one could possibly imagine* "I further wonder why DaimlerChrysler still uses Garrett as a sub-contractor when they simultaneously OWN the so called "best turbocharger manufacturer in the world". " that's funny, considering most of the Turbochargers Dodge uses bear the name MITSUBISHI on them. You're twisting my words btw, I NEVER said that Mitsubishi is the "best turbocharger manufacturer in the world", I said "the best auto manufacturer produced Turbochargers come from Mitsubishi." key emphasis on "AUTO MANUFACTURER PRODUCED TURBOCHARGERS" which is true. Learn to read you illiterate fool. So, from where you stand, you are currently not in a position to reflect my aptly descriptive "DOLT", for cryin' out loud nimrod, I've met 15 year olds who were less delusional and impulsive than you. Every company that knows what they're doing, uses Mitsubishi Turbochargers, including Subaru, Dodge (they don't really know what they're doing when it comes to compact sports cars, but it's a start) Mistubishi, Hyundai (hell, the Turbocharger is about the only well built thing on the Tibouron), numerous Honda Concepts, Peugeot, Skoda, Suzuki, etc.
Re: American Car Fans- READ Mitsubishi is not OWNED by DaimlerChrysler, they have a stake in Mitsubishi MOTORS. Although Daimler-Chrysler is attempting to puchase 43% of Mitsubish Fuso shares, they have not done so yet. In other words, although they have a stake, Daimler-Chrysler is not the sole controlling body in MMC....especially since their stake only grants them 3 seats on the 11 member governing board....MMC still owns 7, which means MMC has overall control. Daimler-Chrysler is not allowed to increase it's holding in MMC for a minimum of 3 years. So for now, MMC is still controlled by Mitsubishi. The elected CEO was ALSO from MMC, again showing Daimler's limited control of the company. So where does that put your automotive information?
Re: American Car Fans- READ BS? how so? Cant admit that a 70's chassis can outdo or match the purpose built supercar nsx chassis? remember the nsx did a .91g on the skidpad with a slalom of 65.8mph...the mustang gt did a 67.8mph in the slalom, showing that the base gt model can manuver or handle if u will a nsx, in say a s-turn or chicane....maybe not in a normal turn becuz of its lower skidpad rating... but since i dont have any info on the svt's slalom i would only come to expect it to be around 68 or 69mph considering the overall svt suspension is much much much improved over the gt's now nsx .91g 65.8mph svt .90g 67-69mph i think the svt could very well hold its own match/beat the nsx on a track..., .01g would result in maybe somewhere to a 1-3mph drop in a turn compare to the nsx at MOST...then on the straight leave it the heavy torqued/hp mustang to once again pull away... guess facts are bullshit to u....becuz a american muscle car couldnt possibly be as good or better in performance as a supercar from japan...just couldnt happen right? well it just did... im going to try and look for track times of the two, but considering how new the svt is i doubt i will find much... but then again a nsx couldnt get 100hp+ gain with 600dollars either now could it...
Re: American Car Fans- READ Tell me, how many production american cars have achieved a faster time on Nurburgring than 7:56, oh that's right, ONE, the Viper SRT-10, pretty pathetic. check out this link with the Cobra, and NSX-T being a part of the comparison, yet the NSX-T being the slowest NSX, and with "only" 290 hp, gets a faster time than the prepped-for-drag Cobra http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars_trucks/1999/7/comparison_test_13_quickest_cars/print.phtml . Now, Skidpad rating is one of the most misunderstood ratings out there, a car that transfers more weight will generate more G's at a slower speed, it may be designed to handle more G's, but that doesn't necessarily mean it handles better. MR cars generally don't have as high a skidpad rating as FR cars because they are more balanced, but don't even begin to attempt to tell me that MR cars don't handle as well as FR cars. BTW - try closer to 69.5 mph for the NSX-T (with Traction control OFF) in the 600ft. slalom (which, again is far from the best handling NSX), and more like 65.4 for the SVT Cobra (both figures from MotorTrend). Skidpad rating also says nothing for how responsive, or nimble a car is, nor how controllable a car is when the rear end starts to slide out a bit. Take the Impreza for example, it has a lower skidpad rating than many other cars in its class, yet its handling is far superior to that of all other cars in its class (save for perhaps the EVO), and what makes its handling so superior is NOT how hard it can turn before it starts to slide, but how controllable it is and how much traction it can get during a slide, so even though it may slide more easily than a car like the Mustang, it can also corner faster because it won't spin out once it starts to lose traction (unlike the SVT Cobra). So basically, for anything other than daily driving, and people who don't know how to drive a car very well, Skidpad means pretty much [email protected] all. BTW - the Civic Type-R can do 68.7 mph in the slalom, would you say that means it's better handling than the NSX and the SVT Cobra? Of course not (well, perhaps better than the Cobra). anyway, if you really like, I can get to your earlier drivel. For the moment I'm going to leave it be.
Re: American Car Fans- READ "but then again a nsx couldnt get 100hp+ gain with 600dollars either now could it..." Not an NSX, but a GTR could....
Re: American Car Fans- READ What are you guys doing comparing the NSX and the Cobra. Don't even mention Cobra in the same sentence as the NSX. The NSX is so far above the Cobra... and yes an american muscle car couldn't possibly be as good as a supercar from japan. Muscle car... super car... muscle car... super car. A muscle car is a V-8 in a metal box that has wheels. The only american cars worthy of being compared to the NSX is the Saleen and the GT40 which are both classified as supercars. Just because an American car is faster and costs less... doesn't make it better. A rich guy isn't going to say hmm I could get the NSX ... but the cobra is faster and costs less so I should get that. He might say that if he is a complete idiot. No... rather he will make the NSX more powerful, if that is what he desires. Which is better... a Lamborghini or a Camaro that beats a Lamborghini?
Re: American Car Fans- READ It seems you don't know when to quit, kid... Thanks for admitting that Garretts are the best for production cars though, which they probably currently are. However, it seems your sole indicator of "betterness" of a turbocharger is "how much hp it makez" or actually "how much hp/l it makez". It clearly shows that you don't know ANYTHING about engines, even less about the turbochargers. Newsflash: there is actually MORE in making a "better" engine, than taking a lump of iron with inch thick cylinder walls and attaching a turbocharger size of a barrell into the exhaust. Details are too complex for you to understand, I'm afraid. And you might want to explain, why your beloved "better aftermarket turbochargers" are NOT used in for example, FIA World Rally series, where the leading teams use *surprise*: Garretts. They are also used in CART, LeMans and other series. Run quickly to tell those teams, that they can get "better" turbos from somewhere else! They'll be so thankful, they'll give you a banana! Whew, it seems, you're not only stupid, ignorant and arrogant nit, but you seem to be a racist as well. So everyone who points out your ryced beliefs to be rubbish, has a "mullet wearing "pappy" who hears things while smoking the Chrysler head exec's butler's beef cigar"? Bad news for you, DaimlerChrysler DOES OWN 34% of their stock, which according to Japanese law, gives DC a controlling stake and a veto right in the board (translation for you: veto means they don't do jack shit if DC doesn't want to). Check it out, little buddy. It's under Facts & Figures 2002. "Weekly Ryce" mag has really let you down this time. Who's daddy smokes stolen cigars now? http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/docs4/ir/e/ And I'm twisting your words? Nah, I think you're just squirming to save your sorry butt, although in vain. Whatever. But interesting info again emerges - at least your "best" Mitsubishi "Automobile Manufacturer Produced" turbos that are used in World Rally come from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which indeed is a SEPARATE company from Mitsubishi Motors (= MHI is NOT an auto manufacturer), hmm... So you fail again. And those MHI turbos aren't doing that well in Rally nowadays. Peugeots (and Skodas), supposedly using MHIs in their street cars, are using Garretts in their rally cars, lol. Last, the "password" you're very obviously missing is "C-L-U-E". It's been fun, bye! PS. That's a funny picture of you in your sig, you look just like I expected! Here's an other pic of you - this time it's your ass facing the camera for a change, though. Ouch, that must have hurt!
Re: American Car Fans- READ Does Garrett produce automobiles? cuz Ive never heard of a Garrett car. Thats what he was saying, Mitsubishi Motors is the best at making their own turbo chargers... and yes even for other production cars *gasp* including american cars. Hate to break it to you but Mitsubishi Heavy Industries is still owned by Mitsubishi Motor Company. Of course they're going to have a separate factory for that kind of stuff... they don't build the performance parts in the same factory that they put together the Galant. As for the Rally cars using Garretts... so what? WE ARE NOT TALKING AFTERMARKET---ONLY PRODUCTION. Although I'm sure the Mitsubishi turbo charger would make for a good aftermarket upgrade for my car. P.S. What production cars use Garretts stock? is there any?
Re: American Car Fans- READ They have the CONTROLLING stake of the MMC, which can also be described as "owning". If you wish to debate semantics, then oh well. And DC has a veto right, which practically gives them the lead, although they haven't (yet) got more than 3 out of 10 members. Check this out: http://www.nikkeibp.com/business/20000403.html And already knowing your "selective" vision concerning (any) issues in Japan (or about GTRs) I'll rephrase something here, as you'd leave the latter part out anyway and come back happily with only the first part. "According to President Kawasoe, Mitsubishi Motors will remain an independently managed company since DaimlerChrysler will not have the amount of a stake that would allow the company to control the management of Mitsubishi Motors, and no board members from DaimlerChrysler will have the right to represent Mitsubishi Motors. NOTICE!!!-IMPORTANT-PART-STARTS-HERE However, Kawasoe's such estimation is unlikely to be correct. The fact that DaimlerChrysler will hold a 34% stake, which allows the company to have the right to veto proposals on Mitsubishi Motors' management, indicates that Mitsubishi Motors will have to respect the intent of DaimlerChrysler when making important decisions. A similar case was found in the relationship between Ford Motor Co. and Mazda Motor Corp.: Ford Motor took about a 34% share in Mazda Motor, practically gaining complete control over the management of the company. NOTICE!!!IMPORTANT-PART-STOPS-HERE" And my knowledge about general "automotive information"? About average I think, I haven't got much spare time to absorb all the tidbits of info that's lying around. But almost anyone would have a hard time to stoop lower in "not being informed", than the horde of think-they-know-all-still-know-nothing-and-yet-mouth-around geeks, resident here (like the Passwordless guy). Shivers.
Re: American Car Fans- READ Let me help you out a bit. The debate was simply about "who makes the best turbochargers". Passwordless already agreed that "Garrett makes the best turbochargers for production cars". But HE WAS THE ONE THAT STARTED TALKING ABOUT AFTERMARKET TURBOCHARGERS. Followingly, it became obvious that the "aftermarket turbochargers" aren't doing that well for example, in the rally scene, UNLIKE Garrett. HE also tried to save his humiliated ass by starting to squirm about "automobile manufacturer produced turbo" crap, which was (and is) NO ONE'S INTEREST HERE. And if you say Mitsubishi Motor Company also owns Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (known turbocharger maker), which I doubt though... Well, DaimlerChrysler practically OWNS Mitsubishi Motors Company (the automobile maker - see above). Gets a bit tricky, doesn't it? To my knowledge, Garretts are used at least in all Saabs and Nissan Skyline R34s. They are further used in at least some (or some cases all) turbo cars of VW (Audi), BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Fiat, Ford, Peugeot and Renault. (Racing) program also includes turbos for cars at least from Cadillac, Citroen, Ford, Hyundai, Bentley, MG, Peugeot, Seat, Skoda, Saab and Toyota.
Re: American Car Fans- READ Man, you're a real piece of work, you really don't have any idea how wrong you are, do you? BTW - out of curiosity, how involved are you with professional rally racing? sounds like you obtain the majority of your "knowledge" from speedvision, and MM&FF....right, I'm really going to seriously take your word as anywhere near being correct. Daimler Chrysler has nothing really to do with Mitsubishi produced engines and turbochargers (nor anything else for that matter) they really only have access to Mitsubishi's technology, and have the option to use it, so end it, quit being such a dumbass. P.S. - if you're wondering about the name, at the time that I registered, the forum was having problems, I had to register 7 times because they didn't e-mail a password, they finally did with this username (about 2 months later) sooner or later I'm going to change my username. Why don't you learn a little knowledge rather than speculate on what you hope might be true, and then come back. Power and reliability are what makes a Turbocharger good. And how well it can boost the power without increasing boost pressure too much. Power curve is important, as well as lag. Oh, and BTW - I just found out that Garrett uses Mitsubishi Technology, odd huh? Just curious, what part of "...auto manufacturer produced turbochargers..." did you not understand? It's a pretty simple concept, fool.
Re: American Car Fans- READ Actually, the NSX could, but it would be difficult. But again, the sheer genious of the design of the NSX isn't how much power it has, or how upgradable it is, but rather how well it gets the power to the ground, and the handling, and the overall package of the car, there are few better designed cars. And it's the ONLY car (aside from Caterham and Lotus made vehicles) with less than 300hp that can lap Nurburgring as quickly as 7:56.
Re: American Car Fans- READ "Actually, the NSX could, but it would be difficult." How could you gain 100hp from the NSX with $600? You can't. It's NA, and no NA car could get a 100hp boost from anything costing only $600.
Re: American Car Fans- READ Oops, my bad, he said $600, I went back and checked, hoping you had made the mistake, but realized I saw an extra "0" earlier.<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/wink.gif"></A> oh well, so much for that.
Re: American Car Fans- READ LOL...great....guess what. Their shares mean exactly dick when 7 of the 11 board members are MMC. Guess what that means.....GM has very little control other than a dissenting vote. I thought you were supposed to be educated.... ...by the way....that little word, "unlikely" signifies an opinion. Fuji also has a veto vote, and MMC has one as well. So MMC has a veto vote...they control MMC?....
Re: American Car Fans- READ "The jap-import craze is without logic. It's all about being IN with the import crew." -- this is sad b/c this is the way my younger brother is starting to go, he just turned 16, he is like 'i just want an import' and a clutch, but the main point is that he'd take a honda accord over the 71 chevelle that i used to drive, and that I offered to give him, and he claims to like fast cars. I honestly don't care if honda/import guys will bash me for this, but that chevelle will destroy anything they have to offer stock, or at least it has for the past 6 or 7 years, and it has greater performance potential than any vtec. With regard to the SVT Cobra rules ass comment, unfortunately it doesn't... new motortrend it loses to the base C5. I like both cars though, ford did a good job making the new SVT series cars.
Re: American Car Fans- READ lol the nsx is pathetic i mean the nsx is around like 60,000 and its slower than a cobra and the nsx is not purpose built if it was a purpose built its purpose would t see how long untill it breaks down cuz u know all hondas break down easily i guess its because of the weak suspension or breaking oh well who cares and i know honda rulez u are going to say some fuking shit about how im wrong and look at the reports and whatever and i know the mustang will break down but the mustang is more reliable and i think the mustangs purpose is to smoke any pos car like the nsx peace out
Re: American Car Fans- READ WTF. I will agree that the NSX is overpriced imo, but after that your post goes downhill fast. The NSX is purpose built, it's a track car, and does that job very well. Amazing handling car. Next, the NSX is one of the highest rated cars when it comes to reliabilty. Did you smoke to much crack before posting this...? This has got to be one of the worst post I have seen in a long time, f^cking morons, why do you idiots even come on these boards?
Re: American Car Fans- READ he is right though i mean truthfully would u rather have a cheaper car that goes faster and the purpose built what is it built for showing off japanese technoligy or something for racing its o kay but the body style looks kinda shitty