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Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Longshoremen, Jun 15, 2010.
quoting a profound post
sorry, i think you've got me wrong. I'm advocating a moral law outside of ourselves. Not something that we instinctively follow, but one which is true and right nonetheless
ok. ya, which is obviously not the case. the way i had interpreted it is like well, there very well could be such a divine morality out in the ether, but it's our fun little treasure hunt to figure out. or not, who knows? thats the point at which it all becomes conjecture, and i'd rather let theology handle it.
See the thing is, when you start throwing out terms as true and right I start rolling my eyes. There is no absolute truth, just what we perceive as truth.
I think Danno is saying that there is only one, true morality, and he knows what it is.
Like you, that sort of attitude makes me facepalm. By claiming there to be one true morality, he's claiming to know the mind of god... which is naive beyond belief but somehow its very common, in people of all religions.
I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say there isn't a truth (well, perhaps in terms of morality, but not in the general sense of the word). There is just no method available to show something to be true. I would say truth is unobtainable, but exists.
The claim to possess the thoughts of god is what religion, all religion, is. Anything less than that claim, but within theism, is deism. The assertion that he doesn't want you to eat shellfish, or that he wants you to pray, or that he's a jealous god, or that he thinks you should wait to marry before sex, are all claims to know what god thinks. The idea that you know because he told you through a profit or when he took on a human form does not change that fact.
How can we ever really know though.
We're pretty much living in the matrix. We really don't know the absolute truth of our existence and there's no real way of being sure.
Maybe God doesn't exist. Maybe he does. Maybe he does, and the bible was really inspired by god, but he only gave it to earth to send us all on a wild goose chase just for shits n giggles. Maybe scientologists are right and the entire human race was brainwashed and didnt exist as it does today before the 1800s. There's no way of knowing for sure.
Having said this, I do believe in a creator. But its not the bible or any other religious text thats led me to believe that, its come from my own internally-logical conclusions on life and the universe, our souls, and the nature of good and evil. Hence I believe in spirituality over religion.
And what I find to be the common element with people who claim to know the truth, whether they are theist or atheist, is that they fear the unknown. They are too proud of their beliefs to ever accept that they don't actually know everything.
On the other hand, people such as myself who embrace spirituality over religion embrace the unknown. The unknown adds to the fascination that the universe gives us, and makes life so much greater.
What's spirituality? and why can't atheists not embrace the unknown? I know I do
Same here. I'm an atheist, but I consider myself a very spiritual person.
No no I'm not saying they cant embrace it, I'm saying that SOME atheists claim to actually know god doesnt exist in the same way that some theists claim they do know god exists. But of course that doesnt go for everyone, yourself and I are obviously amongst those that dont claim to know it all.
I guess its not easy for me to define spirituality, especially over the net. I would say it involves having belief in the existance of something greater beyond the physical world - a creator, an essence of the universe, a source of life, or just a spiritual force of some sort.... but unlike religion, spirituality doesn't delve into dogma, into absolute morality. It doesnt claim to know the truth. On the contrary it is the individual search for enlightenment through lifelong learning.
EDIT: having looked at the wikipedia entry, it actually does a pretty good job of analysing the term http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality
EDIT2: So basically, the longer I've lived, the less specific my views on God have become. But at the same time, my belief in god has grown.
Theists: "I don't know why it rains, God does it."
Atheists: "I don't know why it rains, let's find out."
That is a thoroughly retarded statement.
I agree. I'm not sure why people always use the excuse "God made it that way."
the worst member.
Post moar pics of avatar
I bet if you submitted this to that annual "worst opening line for a novel" competition it'd get some serious consideration.
I agree with the point of this post.
Hell yeah I agree with that
is that an oxymoron? or do you have some other interpretation of what spiritual means? or do I have another interpretation of what spiritual means than you?
I believe in science.
You don't have to be religious to be spiritual.