beating muscle cars at their own game

Discussion in '2002 Honda Civic Type-R' started by turbo power, Sep 14, 2002.

  1. Please read my entire post before you post a reply.

    For years muscle cars have always had the idea of "we may not be able to beat a exotic now but you take that money you would have used to buy the exotic and buy a muscle car. Now take the difference and put it in the muscle car then go race the exotic and you will most certainly win." That still holds true, but now these compact cars have taken this muscle car idea and used it against them.

    For example someone driving a $15,000 civic wont be able to beat some one in a $28,000 camaro ss thats just comon sense. But you take the $13,000 and invest it in a civic, and what do you get--one quick civic and one pissed off ss driver.

    Now this idea of civics beating muscle cars only exists to this point because once the muscle car driver starts putting money in his car it is all over. But when it comes to tuning on a budget, a factor that many of us must worry about, it is damn near impossible to beat the compact imports.
     
  2. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    if u want true performance you buy an ss ws6 or even a mustang import tuners are dumb cuz FWD isnt the best car to drag or race in i bet that fwd drag cars cant do wheelies like this camaro in the pic and puting big ass wings with neon lights and fart cannons wont make a car go faster and doing this stuff pretty much sums up about 95% of the import/domestic sport compact tuning people do to their cars(civics accords integras) and by the way a souped up muscle car murders a suped up import i saw a video of a stock syclone destroying a supra dont know whether it was stock or not but damn was it sweet.
     
  3. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    You missed the point of my topic. It is a stock camaro ss vs a civic with $13,000 invested in it. And im talking about real parts none of this neon light, flashy paint job, and wing crap because well i think that it is retarded too. Now who do you think who is going to win?

    Now im not a fan of fwd cars as drag cars, but it is indisputable that with a $28,000 celing on your car there is no way a civic with $13,000 in real mods will lose to a stock ss.
     
  4. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    thats debatable cuz a modified civc with 13,000 in motor, exhuast and transmision could probably beat a stock ss with a 6-speed but still that fwd would give an automatic disadvantage cuz a civic with mods lets say oh... 330 horses and a weight of 2800 and a 5-6speed would(hypothetically)hit sixty in about (wild ass guesstimated time) 5.5-6.0 and a stock ss hits it in about 4.8-4.9 so i dont know unless i see it.
     
  5. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    a stock civic ahs a weight of 2500lbs. A nissan altima V6 ahs 240hp and it can do 0-60mpg in 5.9 sec stock. It has a weight of about 3000lbs,a dn it's a FWD. So a civic with 330hp and weighs 2500lbs and has a 5-speed manual, it should do 0-60 in about 4-5 seconds.
     
  6. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    I agree with u, but ur missing the most important key in this topic. You're talking about a civic with no year given, and a $28,000 SS, given by the price, I'd say ur talking about the LS1. Now, since imports complain so much about resale value here comes the american car advantage. When i was looking for a 5.0 (87-93) the most expensive one i found was 8,000 only because it pretty fixed up, including a supercharger. Some guy in my class wanted a 92 or 93 GS-R, and the guy was asking 6,000! Thats a bit too much for a 120 hp 4 banger wouldn't u say? Basically buying a 92 mustang or camaro, is cheaper than buying a civic. Let alone a supra or Rx-7 due to the rarity since they are discontinued. So u can go ahead with the whole pricing of mods and stuff, now im not speaking for the F-bodies, but u can do as much to a mustang as u can to an import. I even saw a 94 mustang GT with an Eclipse front bumper and civic side skirts. My eyes hurt for 3 days.
     
  7. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    Ugh... I'm also seeing a bunch of those ryced out Mustangs as of late...
     
  8. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    oh wait lets put my stock 200hp lumina up against a civic, and whats that? ahh yes my lumina wins, and costs the same. but you dont see many people buying luminas and rycing them out do you? the civic is an economy car, it is priced as an economy car, it has the power of an economy car, it looks like an economy car, thats why its cheap, hell i could buy a toyota echo for 10k and put 18k worth of money into it and make it the fastest drag racer around, but it doesnt change the fact that you're still stuck with a shitty ass echo. people who buy camaros want sports cars that look cool and go fast and have shitloads of aftermarket not shitty economy cars that sound like weedeaters, and by the time you reach the end of your 4 bangers ability its still not on par with what an LS1 is putting out, so take your #%$goty ass ryced out piece of shit and go to the playground with the other kids and their ryce
     
  9. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    somebody told me that civics were a lot more expensive to hook up than most cars.possibly because they're still popular on the market and they're ripping people off i think.(just a guess)
     
  10. #10 SeansVette, Sep 19, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    On that note why buy a $15,000 Civic and modify it when you can get more from a 1989 Dodge Caravan? (yes, a mini-van)

    CLICK HERE
    www.turbovan.net

    For less than the price of a brand new Civic A family van can run 12.65 in the 1/4, and dominate your lean-mean VTEC machine.

    Do you get my point? It's always cheaper to buy a cheaper car and modify it to be fast. What's more important is...

    1: How does it perform off the showroom floor.

    And 2: How difficult it is to create greater performance.

    A small I4 with front wheel drive is about the worst starting point.
     
  11. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    AT last, u finally understand!! Every car can be modded to go fast! Yea, i saw that mini-van, no kidding, it's fast. But u don't really have to buy a new civic to make it fast, u can buy a 1989 CRX and make it go fast, and tehc ar isn't expensive too! There are many ways to make lots of hp, 1.) larger displacement, 2.) Turbo or supercharge or otehr kinds of aspiration, 3.) high rpm.
     
  12. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    we need more situations like these in our highways
     
  13. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    Ah, yes the age old battle of ryce and muscle. Im a big fan of muscle cars, but im going to give my opinion about both sides

    Muscle

    Good
    Horsepower
    Torque
    Low in price
    FAST
    RWD
    aftermarket

    Bad
    too many people think they're "gay"
    Rycers turn more heads with tens of thousands of dollars of crap

    Ryce

    Good
    Looks
    low in price

    Bad
    Drag (wind resistance)
    FWD
    slower than RWD
    too many idoits with wings, ground effects, and lights


    people around where i live are BIG ryce fans. Im the only person in my grade that can give out at least 50 reasons why american cars are better than japs
     
  14. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    Well, you can make any car go fast. I'm personally thinking about getting a muscle car just to piss off the r i c e rs, since I'm Japanese and proud of it, the only Japanese import enthusiast that knows a damned thing about cars, and have built-up a B18A (Integra LS) just to show the idiots that they are better than B18C (Integra GS-R) because of higher displacement. They have this crazy idea that there is a replacement for displacement; this mysterious, masked fiend called "technology"... They haven't specified the technology, but they say it's there.

    Back to what I was saying... the reason import compacts cost so much is because everyone knows that a bunch of punks are out there buying cars with their parents money, thus making the cost of import compacts nearly double.

    Import compacts have a couple things on muscle cars, they have a favorable power-to-weight ratio when they are built up and they have 4 cylinder, low displacement engines. Whether any of us like it or not, smaller engines are far more efficient than large ones. It's a matter of physics that I'm going to bring up at God's next stock-holders meeting.

    In general, imports have taken the muscle cars little claim to fame thing that the guy that started this forum brought up. But at least muscle cars have stability at excessive speeds on compacts.

    (Currently building a B18A, will inform you with numbers when I'm finished)
     
  15. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    One thing you forget:

    FWD is inherently disadvantaged comp'd to RWD when it comes to drag racing. Also, you can't have as much fun arguably on a track with a FWD car as you can on a RWD b.c. of understeer (which admittedly is also currently the handling bias of most RWD cars too).

    I love the sound of a four-banger, in fact, if the CTR were to come to America I would seriously consider it. (Wonder if R. arm wud. get tired from no place to rest it though)

    However, if Ford does a good job (aka not like hack job on 2002 Thunderbird) on the next Mustang in '04, I'd consider that too.
    BTW,
    The other day at school I saw a young Oriental man driving a Z06; of course the gearshifter knob was changed, but otherwise it was stock.

    And don't say I'm racist b.c. I was surprised 4 2 reasons; firstly the guy was Young, don't C 2 many young'uns driving Z06s (probly b.c. cannot afford), and of course Oriental, which isn't too common.

    The sad thing is, now, b.c. of this craze, legitimate sports cars are losing their street cred. at least 2 me. I see S2000s, NSXs, all modded mainly in appearance and that will never see a track.
    Unfortunately, it looks the same will happen to USA muscle too, seein a lot of Camaros and Stangs w/ rycer lites.

     
  16. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    I'm partial to anything that's not front wheel drive. As for the which is better import or american...it depends.
    I race a Supra sponsored by Turbo Imports from Texas and it runs a 9.81 at 153.58mph. Some of you may have seen this video on Kazaa and ToyotaSupra.com if u haven't i suggest you do.

    In the end it all depends on what it is and what it has in it, as for American muscle look at the HEMI there's no other engine in this world that u can slap a blower/super charger on it and have the engine produce around 1,200hp, look at the Top Fuel dragsters 7,000hp those are custom engines but they're based on american design. I've seen the Integra funny car with 1,000hp per cylinder making 4,000hp which is insane. As i said, it all depends on what it is and what it has done to it. Imports have low weight to their advantage and when u slap a turbo and a lol..."Fart cannon" on it and other such mods u get a good hp to weight ratio.

    With the american cars they're slightly heavier depending on the car. I've seen a Civic hatch back out drag a C6 Corvette. But i've also seen a 5.0 mustang do a wheel stand and completely leave an RX-7-TT in the dust.

    A good match up is the Cobra R vs a Lotus Elise, Super Street did an article on this pair and believe it or not, the little Lotus Elise out performed the Cobra R in the 1/4, skid pad, everything. So keep in mind. To each their own, go by what's under the hood and the drivers ability, not the make or model of the car. Don't argue, shut up and take it to the track. Thanks...Xplosive
     
  17. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game
     
  18. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    gotta go HEMI, may be old tech but that just gave them time to come up with superior aftermarket parts
     
  19. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    About the price issue. I bought my Vette for $6,000 put about $3,000 into the engine, and no civic can touch it, and yes, even Civis with NOS. It also depends on Torque, thats what wins races. not Hp
     
  20. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    torque plus rpm.
     
  21. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    The HEMI design is very dominant. Unfortunately a true hemi is very, very expensive.
     
  22. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    no kidding man!!
     
  23. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    I still don't see the attraction to drag racing. it's boring, a simple straight line is a serious snooze fest. you want a real, honest to god race? try it on an actual track. a REAL track, with not only straight aways, but long curves, up and down hills, chicanes, and hairpins. no more lousy planting the pedal and going like a bat out of hell to the other end of the strip. it's boring as hell and incredibly pathetic. it's so... American! american in idea, american in execution. it's annoying and pointless! it also proves how narrow-minded and numb skulled (most) americans are.
     
  24. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    I've read some pretty stupid posts in my day, but yours belongs in the dumb-jackass hall of fame.

    First of all, drag racing is very big all over the world.

    Second of all, if you think American cars don't race on tracks then you're even more stupid than your post.

    Third, I would love to see you drag race a car capable of single digit times and THEN call it boring.

    Drag racing is a very pure form of racing. It's all about who can get from point A to point B that fastest. It's wonderfully childish, like back in elementary school (or in your case high school), when we all used to race your friends from the sidewalk to the bleachers. Well the drag strip is an adult playground, and the finish line is the bleachers. You obviously don't know the joy and feeling of power from having massive torque under your wheels.

    Hell, you probably started this post because you got smoked by an American car.
     
  25. Re: beating muscle cars at their own game

    I'm totally on ur side.
    Each type of racing has its significance. Each of them is fun to watch.
     

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