Beginner Bikes!

Discussion in 'Trucks and Motorcycles' started by Kemper, May 14, 2006.

  1. The following is for people who want to know what a good beginner bikes are. This is the thread. No others.

    Please sticky.

  2. Is that Apple Argyle? That reminds me of the argyle cycling jersey I'm going to get.
  3. The Kawasaki Ninja 250 has been a favored starter bike for more than a decade. They hold their used value very well and you could buy one and sell it a few years later for around the same price. They are also very efficient and easy to insure. Some people say you'll "grow out of it" eventually and want a bigger bike, and if you're an average guy in your early 20s, that's probably what's going to happen.
  4. i would have to say a 600 suzuki katana or if your a bigger person a 750 gsx-r
  5. 750 for a bigger person? hahahah, i laugh at your stupidity.
  6. hahahha. it totally is.

    coolest biking jersey ever?
  7. I dont care how big you are, a 750 for a first bike is a good way to end up a road pizza.
  8. MY friend is actually intrested in purchasing one. He is looking at about 250cc.
  9. obviously the best starter bike is the hayabusa -_-
  10. The Suzuki SV650 is also a popular bike to start with.
  11. Probably going to be my first bike.
  12. So yesterday I was at a relatives communion party, and i knew a guy there who used to be obsessed with bikes. So of course I said to him, hey, I'm looking to get a bike, what's a good beginner bike? He suggested the 600 Katana, ninja, or a cbr600rr. personally i like the 600rr the best, so I'll stick with that one for now, unless one of yall can dissuade me.

    And, (I couldn't seem to find this out on the web) what's the average mile per gallon for a speed bike (like a 600rr), highway and road use?
  13. It's pretty powerful for a first bike, although you won't "grow out of it". If you don't like a 250 Ninja for a first bike I think a DR400 super moto would be a sweet starter bike.
  14. If you aren't a dumbass, then a 600RR is "fine". The average is around 35 mpg.
  15. Yes, everyone who doesn't have a bike thinks if you aren't a dumbass then a 600RR is fine.
  16. Yeah, the friend of mine who has one as his first bike is like 6'3'' 225lbs so he's not going to get thrown around by it. He's got good sense too. Being careful is what's going to keep you safe no matter what bike you start with. You've just got to compensate high testosterone with low power.
  17. I've met lots of guys who started out on 600s and are fine. I probably won't start out on such a fast bike due to my income, but it's probably not very challenging.
  18. People who start on 600s have a tendancy to not be able to ride very well, because they never have to maintain speed because of the ample power. Just my thoughts. I wanna get a Ninja 250, but then I'm 6'0 and only 145 lbs.
  19. You think it can't throw someone around who's 6'3" 225?
    You're all retarded if you think 600's are good first bikes. EVERY rider with any common sense says a 600 is a terrible idea for a beginner. Your frinds got a 600 and didn't die (yet)? They probably will. There's been so many posts about it already that I'm not going to make any more, this is the last one.

    "Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes


    Well, another riding season is upon us and as it always happens, we get lots of inquiries from potential new riders on how to get into the sport, what's a good first ride, where to take safety classes and so on. One particular type of inquiry that pops up with almost clockwork frequency is from a small number of new riders who wish to buy 600cc and up sportbikes as their first ride.

    For the past year and a half, I, along with lots of other BB forum members, have entertained this question of 600cc sportbikes for a first ride with patience and lots and lots of repetition. It seems this small group of newbies keep coming back with the same arguments and questions over and over again. As a result, I am going to take the time in this column to try and put into words, answers that get repeated over and over on the BB forums.

    Allow me to state first and foremost that I am a sport rider. My first bike was a Ninja 250R and I put nearly 7000 miles on it in two seasons before selling it. I am presently shopping for my next ride and it will almost certainly be a sportbike or sport tourer in the 600-1000cc range. I am also building a track bike in my garage which I hope to complete this season (a Yamaha FZR600). Although I am not an expert rider by any stretch, I have tinkered enough and done enough research along with talking with other riders to be able to speak with some degree of knowledge on the subject.

    This column is split into two parts. First, I would like to address the common arguments we see here as to why a 600cc sportbike simply must be a first ride along with rebuttals. Second, I want to cover the rationale behind why the BB community-at-large steers new riders away from these machines.

    False Logic

    On about a three month interval, a whole slew of questions pop up on the BB forum from potential riders trying to convince the community that a 600cc sportbike is a suitable first ride and then proceed to explain to us why they are the exception. I can almost set my clock to this pattern of behavior since it is almost swarm-like. I guess the newbies figure by swamping the forum with the same questions in lots of places we might trip up and endorse such a machine. Hasn't happened yet but they keep on trying.

    For those of you that come to Beginner Bikes trying to convince us to endorse a 600cc sportbike, I offer you the following responses to your arguments.
    I can only afford to get one bike so it might as be the one that I want.

    I don't want to go through the hassle of buying and selling a used bike to learn on.

    These two lines of reasoning pop up as one of the more common arguments. I am going to offer first a piece of wisdom which is stated with great regularity on the forums:

    This is your first bike, not your last.

    Motorcycle riders are reputed to change bikes, on average, once every two to three years. If this is the case (and it appears to be based on my observations), the bike you learn to ride on will not be in your garage in a few years time anyway whether you buy it new or used. You're going to sell it regardless to get something different, newer, more powerful, more comfortable, etc.

    Yes, buying a bike involves effort and a financial outlay. Most of us simply cannot afford to drop thousands of dollars on a whim every time we want to try something new. Getting into riding is a serious commitment in time and money and we want the best value out it as much as possible.

    However, if you can afford to buy outright or finance a 600cc or up sportbike that costs $7000 on average, you can probably afford to spend $2000 or so on a used bike to learn on. Most of the beginner sportbikes we recommend here (Ninja 250/500, Buell Blast, GS500) can all be found used for between $1500-$3000.

    Done properly, buying and selling that first bike is a fairly painless process. Buying a used bike is no harder than buying new. I would argue it is a bit easier. No different than buying a used car from a private seller. If you've done that at least once, you'll know what to do in buying a used bike.

    Selling a beginner bike is even easier. You want to know why? Because beginner bikes are constantly in demand (especially Ninja 250s). These bikes spend their lives migrating from one new rider to the next to act as a teaching vehicle. It is not uncommon for a beginner bike to see four or five different owners before it is wrecked or junked. There are a lot of people out there looking for inexpensive, reliable bikes and all of our beginner recommendations fit into that category.

    If you buy a used Ninja 250R for $1500, ride it for a season or two, you can be almost guaranteed that you will be able to resell that bike for $1300 or so when you are done with it provided you take care of it. And on a bike like the Ninja 250R, the average turnaround on such a sale is two to three days. No joke. I had five offers on my Ninja 250R within FOUR HOURS of my ad going up on Cycle Trader. I put the bike on hold the same day and sold it four days later to a fellow who drove 500 miles to pick it up. My bike never made it into the print edition. Believe me, the demand is there.

    And look at it this way: For those one or two seasons of riding using the above example, excluding maintenance costs which you have no matter what, you will have paid a net cost of $200 to ride that Ninja. That is extremely cheap for what is basically a bike rental for a year or two. Considering it can cost $300 or more just to rent a 600cc sportbike for a weekend (not including the $1500-$2000 security deposit), that is economic value that you simply cannot argue with.

    Vanity Arguments

    The beginner bikes you recommend are dated and ugly looking.

    I want something that's modern and stylish.

    I want a bike that looks good and that I look good on.

    I call these the vanity arguments. These are probably the worst reasons you can have for wanting a particular bike.

    I will not disagree that aesthetics plays a huge part in the bikes that appeal to us. Motorcycles are the ultimate expression in personal taste in vehicles. Far more than cars. Bikes are more personal and the connection between rider and machine is far more intimate on a bike than a car. On a bike, you are part of the machine, not just a passive passenger.

    However, as entry into world of riding and with the temporarily status that most beginner bikes have in our garages, looks should be the least of your concerns. As long as the bike is in good repair and mechanically sound, that is usually enough for most new riders to be happy. Most riders are happy to ride and they will ride anything given the choice between riding or not riding.

    If you are looking at bike mainly because of how it looks and/or how you will look it and how others will perceive you on it, take a good, long, honest look as to why you want to ride. There are lots of people out there who buy things strictly because of how it makes them appear in the eyes of others. It's shallow and vain but it is a fact of life. It shouldn't be a factor in choosing that first ride but it is. I won't deny that.

    The difference is: a BMW or Mercedes generally won't leaving you hanging on for dear life if you stomp on the accelerator or throw you into the road if you slam on the brakes a little hard. Virtually ever sportbike made in the past 10-15 years will do both of those things given a chance to do so (for reasons that will be explained later in this column).

    The population at large may think you're cool and look great on that brand new sportbike and ohh-and-ahh at you. The ohhs can quickly turn to screams of horror should, in your efforts to impress the masses, you wind up dumping your bike and surfing the asphalt. Will you still look cool with thousands of dollars in damage to that once-beautiful sportbike and with the signatures and well-wishes of your friends on the various casts you'll be wearing months afterwards?

    You Be The Judge

    I'm a big rider so I need a bigger bike to get me around.

    I'm a tall rider and all of those beginner bikes just don't fit me the way the sportbike does.

    I'll look huge and foolish riding on such a small bike.

    My friends will laugh at me for riding something so small.

    These arguments are almost as bad as the vanity arguments. The difference being is they simply show a lack of motorcycle knowledge for the most part.

    Unless you are over 6'3" tall or are extremely overweight (meaning well over 300lbs), even the smallest 250cc motorcycle will be able to accommodate you without difficultly. To provide an example, the Ninja 250R has a load limit of 348 pounds. That is more than sufficient to accommodate a heavier rider in full gear and still leave plenty of space for cargo in tank, tail and saddle bags. Or enough to allow two-up riding between two average weight individuals.

    The idea that bigger riders need bigger bikes is almost laughable. It's like saying small drivers need Honda Civics but bigger drivers only 100 pounds heavier need to drive Hummers to get around. Or Corvettes with plenty of power to pull their ample frames, as the analogy goes. It is only because of the small physical size of bikes compared to their users that this train of thought even exists. It simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny. A look at any motorcycle owner's manual will confirm that for you.

    Tall riders suffer more from fit issues than weight issues. On this, they do have a point. I'm a taller rider (6'1"). I do fold up quite comfortably on the Ninja 250 which is considered a small bike. I found it perfect for my frame. Others haven't. Then again, my knees hit the bars on bikes like the Rebel 250 and Buell Blast. Just different ergonomics that didn't fit me.

    For taller riders, a much better beginner fit is a dual-sport machine rather than a sport machine. They offer the high seat heights that make them comfortable rides and their power is well within acceptable limits. We have a small but vocal dual-sport community here and they will tell you, quite rightly, that a dual-sport is just as capable on twisty roads as a sportbike. The same properties that give sportbikes their cornering ability is also possessed by dual sports (high center of gravity).

    As to peer pressure, I admit to taking more than my fair share of ribbing from my 600cc riding friends. Some of it good natured, some of it not. In the end, this argument falls into the vanity arena. Which is more important: Your safety and comfort on a bike or what your friends think?

    The ways to deal with friends giving you a hard time about a smaller ride is very simple. Tell them to ride their rides and you'll ride yours. It's your ride, after all. Most true riders will accept other riders, no matter what they are on. Only posers and losers care that your ride doesn't measure up to their "standards". And if so, do you really want to be riding with them anyway? It's more fun to stand out than to be a member of a flock anyway. And if they don't buy that line of reasoning, try this one: "Well if you don't like my ride, why don't you go buy me something that you will like?". THAT will shut them up REALLY fast. It works too. Unless their name is on the payment book or the title, it shouldn't be their concern.

    If your friends can't deal with your decisions, you're probably better off looking for new friends. And if you can't deal with the peer pressure, then you are putting your own safety at risk solely because of what others think. Revisit the vanity arguments above and think about why you want to ride.

    Decision Justification Arguments

    I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

    I'm a careful driver so I'll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.

    I drive a fast car so I'll be able to handle a fast bike.

    Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn't get hurt. So why can't I?

    These arguments are the most common ones put forth and the ones that are hardest to deal with. These are the arguments that start flame wars. Because it is on these arguments that you have to convince someone the idea of what a beginner bike is over their preconceived notions.

    The arguments also often surface in what I call the "decision justification arguments". Many new riders have their heart set on a specific bike and often come to BB to ask about it not to get real advice but to get confirmation that their decision is right. In cruisers, standards, scooters and dual-sports, more often than not these "pre-decisions" are generally good ones. In sportbikes, more than 3/4 of the posters are trying to get the community to approve their choice of a 600cc machine as a first ride. Their shock is quite real when they are barraged with answers that don't meet their expectations and that is when a flurry of oft-repeated discussion ensues.

    Let's take each argument in turn since these are the ones that turn up with regularity.

    I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

    The purpose of a first bike is to allow you to master basic riding skills, build confidence and develop street survival strategies. You don't grow into a bike. You develop your skills on it. As your skills develop, so does your confidence and with it, your willingness to explore what the bike is capable of.

    But you are also entering in a contract with the bike. It is two-way. You are going to expect the bike to act on your inputs and the bike in turn is going to respond. The problem is, your skills are still developing but the bike doesn't know that. It does what it is told. You want a partner in a contract to treat you fairly. On a bike, you don't want it fighting you every step of the way. And like most contracts, the problems don't start until there is a breakdown in communication or a misunderstanding.

    In sportbikes, the disparity between a new rider's fledgling skills and the responsiveness of the machine are very far apart. That is a wide gulf to bridge when you are still trying to figure out what the best inputs and actions on the bike should be. Ideally, you want your bike to do what you tell it and do it nicely. You never want the bike to argue with you. Modern sportbikes, despite their exquisite handling will often argue violently right at the moment a new rider doesn't need them to.

    Remember, riding is a LEARNED skill. It does not come naturally to the majority of us (save those like the Hayden brothers who were raised on dirt bikes from the moment they could walk). It must be practiced and refined. Riding is counter-intuitive to most new riders. It doesn't happen the way you expect. For example, at speeds over 25mph, to get a bike to go right, you actually turn the bars to the left. It's called counter-steering and it eventually comes naturally as breathing once you've been in the saddle for a while. But for new riders, this kind of thing is utterly baffling.

    You want your skills to grow in a measurable and predictable fashion. You have enough to be fearful of riding in traffic. The last thing you need is to be fearful of what your bike might do when you aren't ready for it. It's never a good situation.

    It is interesting to point out that only one manufacturer, Suzuki, explicitly states in their promotional material that their GSX-R family of sportbikes are intended for experienced riders. This also applies to several of their larger, more powerful machines (such as a GSX-1300R Hayabusa). If Suzuki issues such a warning for its top-flight sport machines, it is reasonable to say that the same warning would apply equally to similar machines from other manufacturers."
  20. butt#$%#er
  21. I started on a 600rr because back then I thought they were the slower ones since they were smaller than the liter bikes, and Ill tell you that was the wrong desicion.

    The 600rr is a beast made for pure speed. That bike is made for someone who knows what hes doing.

    I recommend atleast 3 years riding on something like a 250 ninja or a smaller suzuki then trying out the 600.

    Bikes are not like dont make mistakes and get away with them. Brake too hard, accelerate too fast of take a corner at a speed you cant control and it will make you bite the dust.

    For comparissions sake consider this, the 600rr can hit 100mph faster than a carrera gt.

    Do you really want to learn to ride on something that fast.
  22. Finally, someone who has experience with this. Thanks man, I am officially persuaded.
  23. I'm persuaded too.
  24. mac67 also mentioned a Katana 600, which is significantly less brutal than a 600RR. It's probably still too much for a beginner though.
  25. Honda CBR 600 F4i

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