BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

Discussion in '2002 BMW M3 CSL Concept' started by JaguarX, Aug 15, 2002.

  1. I believe that this may be a good debate, as to say which car would you choose.
    You got the M3 CSL which is a super lightlight weight.
    The BMW has 350 hp, and a 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.

    While the Jaguar XKR, has 400 hp, and a 0-60 in about 5.2, a little bit less with the manual transmission or J-Gate usage. I've seen test runs scores at 4.9, but I'm assume the BMW also had similar results.
    So the 0-60 is about the same.
    The Jaguar, having the edge of horsepower, and torque (based on what's advertised)BMW has 365 ft/lbs of torque while the Jaguar has 387.

    then there is the price tag, rumors had it, and please correct if wrong, but the BMW CSL will run about $150-$179k
    The XKR will be about $98K.

    Then there are the luxury items. The BMW has nothing. No stereo, not even a working trunk. Last I heard they were planning on getting rid of power windows because the window motor was too heavy.
    Granted the BMW is a lightweight vehicle.
    The Jaguar on the other hand has everything you can almost imagine.
    Thought, with a 0-60 speed at 5.3K, you get yourself a Jaguar Convertible with full options, like premium sound, navigation system, and yes power doors and locks,and windows.

    Some aspects, the BMW is an awesome car. I'm sort of biased with Jaguar....
    But if you had a choice which would you pick and why.
     
  2. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    I've heard CSL will cost some 70 to 80K... as for your comparison, good one wouldn't really know which to take.
     
  3. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    the csl will handle better
     
  4. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    I think the bmw would be quicker around a track so thats what I would take.

    If I was paying for it myself. And they were the only two choices. I'd probably go for the Jag, depending on how much I could mod it with the left over cash. Not the whole left over, just some of it. The rest I'd put towards a new bike.

    <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  5. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    Yes it's a pretty tight comparison.
    Handling we would assume would be better with the BMW.
    But I wonder how well the lightweight will handle at higher velocities. I've been known that some experimental mustangs even virtually lift off the ground at high speeds. I bet that the BMW will also do this due to its lightness. Which if it does, i'll then doubt it's ability of handling at high speeds.
    anyone has info on that?
     
  6. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    In R&T the regular M3 ran 0-60 in 4.8 seconds...this should do even better. And handle better - I think this would beat the XKR on the track easily, but I'd rather have the XKR (more luxurious). This would likely cost less as well.

    Just to add something (which I'm sure most people know) - the Jag's got a bigger, supercharged engine (makes BMW's I6 seem more amazing by comparison). Also, you can't really expect the Jag to win on the track - the M3's a true sports car, while the Jag's much more of a GT.
     
  7. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    if i had the choice i would have the Jaguar XKR
     
  8. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    also to note, the Jag ran 0-60 in 4.9 in R&T, using the J-gate, as mentioned ealier 0-60 is virtually the same in these two cars.
    I've also seen the Jag convertible run 0-60 in 5.1 seconds.
    The XKR, hits max torque at 2000 rpm, and all the way up to its max rpm through electronic enhancements. The Jaguar definetly has more power than the M3 CSL, however if its quicker it's a close call.

    also i attached pictures of the interior and engine of the XKR
     
  9. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    the quarter mile for a standard m3 is 13 second flat.

    this car has more horsepower and is significantly lighter. it would be at least 12.8 in the quarter.

    personally i think the xkr is more of a luxury sports car. the bmw m3 CSL is all business with luxury as a side touch. the m3 CSL would probably beat the jag xkr on the track.
     
  10. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    The Jaguar has more HP, and torque, not the M3.
    the m3 has lightness to it's advantage.
    the BMW M3 CSL, has absolutly no luxury to it, everything you normally find in the a normal m3 as luxury has been removed for performance purposes in the CSL model.
     
  11. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    ah ic. thanks for the info regarding the interior and such.

    nevertheless i believe that hte m3 CSL would win simply becaues of the weight advanatage. it doesn't need as much torque for that reason alone and its probably geared more aggressively to take advantage of its high revving powerplant.

     
  12. #12 HotBoxer, Aug 20, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  13. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    how much is this car gonna cost.

    if its going to cost 6 figures (which i doubt), that's kinda big. i would think this car would be 70 grand as the m5 is about 80 grand and tuner models like the ac schnitzer cls II are about 90 grand-100 grand.
     
  14. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    Performance wise , they can not compare , the CSL kills the XKR on the track.

    Style wise , XKR by far.

    Interior , British style for me.

    Overall , the XKR.
    I just prefer it.
     
  15. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    My friends dad had a 74 stang that had the 4-banger swapped with a modded 302 shoe-horned in its place and it was able to get the front wheels off the ground a good 12" It went thru a few front ends as well =oP One time on the highway his dad was coming home and tried to bury the needle at 150(aftermarket gauge of course)and when he hit 149 he tried to change lanes and "Baby" [stangs name =D]didnt change lanes...so he kept turnin the wheel back n forth and the car didnt steer! He straightened out the wheel and let off the gas so the front end would grip and changed lanes. When he got home he was white as a ghost and we asked what was wrong and he told us what just happened. Believe me, WE ALL WANTED TO GO FOR A RIDE =D He said he didnt wanna retry for 150 for fear of flying and whatever couldve happened to Baby(yes he adored that car and all the neighborhood kids did as well). I'm glad he didnt take flight and wreck it! I miss that car. Yes he sold it and over time lost track of the owners. If I could find that car I would sell it back to him for $1 as a gift, just to see the look on his face when he got his "Baby" back =) As far as it being a lightweight stang, alls it had was aftermarket suspension, tuned tranny, and the beast of an engine...henceforth, it wasnt lightweight, just gutsy. Just thought this may help with your info...

    peace
     
  16. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    i think the newest SVT cobra R (the one missing the spoiler) is limited to 140 mph because at any higher speeds it would become unsafe.

    downforce can be easily generated with an air dam, front end splitter/venturi, front lip spoiler.
     
  17. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    there is no new cobra R just the regular cobra with the supercharger. The cobra R was a 2000 model and was not that spectacular compared to the newest cobra. The new cobra ins't very unsafe at high speed, I beleive they limit the car there because any jackass with $30,000 to blow can get this car which is capable of 180mph range, and that my friend would be seriously dangerous. They figure if someone is savy enough to get the limiter removed they can probably handle driving fast.
     
  18. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    Well first off, Jag sucks. Second, the standard M3 destroys the XKR, so this wouldn't even be a race, it would be an execution.

    Nurburgring times, Driver for all Horst Van Saurma

    Jaguar XKR: 8 minutes 38 seconds
    E46 M3: 8 minutes 22 seconds
    E46 M3 CSL: Rumors say 7 minutes 55 seconds to about 8 minutes 05 seconds.

    Jags are slow and overpriced.

    Angus
     
  19. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    how the hell is the jaguar SLOW. any car making nurburging times in 8 mintues is already fast. something in the 7 minutes is just plain deadly.

    you cannot substantiate any of your 'jag sucks' claims. ok so its slower than the m3. does it really matter? no it doesn't since the xkr is a sports luxury vehicle. people value automobiles for other reasons than simply performance you know.
     
  20. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    I'd rather not pay 150 000 some thousand dollars for a Ford.

    Angus
     
  21. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    the XKR actually is more powerful than the M3 CSL.
    based on many stats, even 0-60 is almost the same, the M3 edging it out solely on the basis of it's light weight. an XKA equivelent clealy kills the M3 CSL without any question. XKA is the CSL equivelent to the XK.
    the XKR first off is not $150K, it's $98K.
    the M3 CSL, i have no idea how much it'll run.
    i heard from $70 - $150.
    and quit frankly, who in the world would want to buy a car without power windows, power doors, no radio, and no trunk and spend more than $20k beats me. if you want to get a racing type car, this shouldn't be on your list. i rather spend $15-$20k on a Camaro or a Mustang, and mod it up. Heck, even my performance upgraded Mercury Sable hits almost 300 hp. the CSL is designed to be a high performance racing version of the M3. for value, i think the CSL stinks. the regular M3 is a better value. you sacrifice some performance, but at least you got yourself a real car.

    Then, what's wrong with Ford to begin with? You're jealous that it's a better car manufacturer than BMW? that couldn't afford to keep Land Rover, and had to sell it to Ford?
    i'll give BMW 3 years before they have to sell Mini.
    Also if you weren't aware, Jaguar is self-regulated. Also if you weren't aware, there are almost as much GM and VW parts in this beemer, than there is Ford parts in Jaguar.
    and add insult to injury.
    the Line 6 engine design for the CSL is made in England by a former Jaguar plant, closed when they stopped produing L6 in 1987.
    regardless, the M3 CSL might beat out an XKR 0-60, but just that. because it does not have the same power, nor class, nor luxury as the XKR.
    regard;ess,Jaguar had a better 3.5L 6 engine in the XJ220 than this.
     
  22. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    BMW's mini is actually doing quite well. it has replaced the vs beetle in europe as the most sought after popular car. its certainly causing a great commotion in the united states as well. dont forget bmw is the world's second most profitable car company next to porsche.


    frankly i would pay 100+k for a car that runs extremely fast with no power windows, radio or anything. i believe the porsche gt-2 is a prime example of such a car.

    two cars made for very different pursposes and i dont agree with either of you.
     
  23. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    yes Mini is doing well... but i dont think BMW will be able to financially maintin it. e.g. Land Rover, Rolls Royce; do i say more?
    BMW does not have the financial capital to invest in these projects.
    to note, Jaguar is set to pass BMW in profitability in 2002 based on current sales growth.
    in total sales, it's just not up there in the world.
    Substantial numbers yes from the 3 series and the x5 helped.
    remember the MINI does not have the mechanics as a BMW, it's English made.
    People are already complaining about the lack of certified centers to take the car in for service.
    Did you know there are currently only 35 certified centers to take in your Mini, in the US?
    BTW I respect people for having tastes.
    GT2 is a very fine example, it has substantial amount of power, worth the sacrifice of these luxuries. it has 460+ hp.
    i just believe to have a car with 350hp is not worth those sacrifices.
    sacrifice a little in 0-60, and you got yourself a pretty nice car in the XKR. Granted the car weights nearly double.
    so how about trimming the weight of an XKR? been done in the XKA, aka A-Type, limited production model found solely for Europe.
    which offers 460 hp. 186 mph top speed. 0-60 i dont know, but it's claim to go under 5 seconds.
    if you want a car with nice revs, and a pretty awesome 0-60, a bmw is good for that.
    if you looking for more torque, and HP, and luxury, Jag is your route.
     
  24. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    the CSL won't even be sold. its merely to show the capabilities of a little tweaking that can be accomplished to the standard m3. the think the xkr is a very fine car, but i prefer to think of it as a sport luxury car. jaguar's are more like aston martins than anything else.
     
  25. Re: BMW M3 CSL vs Jaguar XKR

    jesus christ here we go again! can you prove ANYTHING you just posted jag? I know for a fact you are wrong about the mini being british, so lets start from there. I'd actually like to see you prove me wrong because I would rather not spend the time proving you wrong yet again. surprise me, I'd like to hope that you arent totally full of shit all the time.
     

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