BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

Discussion in '2002 BMW M3 CSL Concept' started by JaguarX, Aug 31, 2002.

  1. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    oh wait, i forgot,
    bmw was suppose to race 4 cars, but they all withdrew, because they got sanctioned.


     
  2. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    Do you know anything about about politics? Oviously not. I'm not even going to bother telling you why they got taken out.

    Angus
     
  3. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    The M3 Strassenversion is a road car, not a racing car. The XJ220 and the M3 don't compete against each other. So that was retarted to point out? You know which has the fastest car out of Jag and BMW? BMW, the FW24. By the way, the M3 is an I6, not an L6.

    Angus
     
  4. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    actually i got a college degree in Political Science...
    they were taken out, cause of two reasons...
    one. they were bending the rules.
    two, they don't know how to follow the rules...
    they been warned numerous times in 2002 to shape up, and they didn't.
     
  5. #55 JaguarX, Sep 23, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    the strass replaced in the GTR in 2002, after the GTR got kicked out after 2001. strass as well got kicked out of the ALMS
    i wonder why the XJ220 and the M3 don't compete...
    i wonder if they didn't during the 90s, when Jaguar won 5 le Mans
    also maybe because the M3 stinks compared to a Jaguar high performance 6 cylinder engine?

    yes i know the M3 is an in-Line 6.

    First: You are retarded to even mention an F-1.
    Second: it's not even BMW, it's Williams, it's a Williams F-1, thought of course BMW has a share of it but it's British Car.
    http://svc157.bne079u.server-web.com/2002/teams/williams.htm

    therefore, thank you for proving AGAIN, that British is better.

    third, if the FW24 was so great how come it doesn't hold any fastest times on any track in 2002, but the Jaguar does in Monza.
     
  6. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    No, they didn't break a single rule. They dotted all the i's and crossed all the T's. The reason that they were sanctioned was because Porsche knew that they weren't going to be able to keep pace. ALMS knew that Porsche would leave if they couldn't win. Pretty much every car in that class was a Porsche, so if they lost Porsche than the whole class would be lost. So they had to change the rules so that BMW couldn't compete with that car.

    Angus
     
  7. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    Do you know what a "class" is? The M3 and the XJ220 are in different "classes". Would you like me to explain what a "class" is?

    Who cares about a single fastest lap time? How many points does Jag have? How many does BMW have? Oh thats right, BMW has 10 times more points than Jag. Maybe its because Jag sucks.

    Why is it retarted to mention F1 cars? You're mentioning a bunch of Trans AM cars. Do you know what a "double standard" is?

    Angus
     
  8. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    again, it's not even a BMW...
    Willson has 10 times more points than Jaguar, very good you can do math.
    how old is the Jaguar/Cosworth F-1?
    how old is the Williams/BMW?
    did the R1 and R2 stink? Yes.
    is the R3 great? No, but it's good.
    is the R4 better? Track times show it's faster than the Williams.
    enough said of F-1.

    but you're the one that said Ford stinks...
    therefore you voided the standard...
    xj220 has a 3.5L 6 cylinder engine in it.
    i'm just comparing it to the BMW high performance 6 cylinder engine
    why can't i compare it to a BMW M3 GTR?
    I should compare it to the Strass though, since they're both road legal. But i guess you're right to say it's unfair, to match cars with roughly the same price tag against each other.
    i'm still waiting to see proof of a stock BMW going 3.1 or better.
    heck, i'm still waiting to see proof of a 4.6 0-60 time in the M3.

    ford gt90, a concept way back when '95, had a v12 version of it.
    GT40 is currently a planned production car.
    i'm just stating cars that prove you wrong, because they're better than BMW...
    last time i check, there is no stock BMW that can beat the Mustang Boss 0-60 in 1.9 and how about it's quater mile at 10.55 @135 mph
    It's all pure muscle, so there is no supercharged in there
    oh it's a concept you going to scream!
    guess what... it's out next year in production form, found in the GT

    dag, isn't thats 2 1/2 times faster than an M3?
    twice as fast as this BMW CSL?
    even faster than the BMW GTR, and the Strass?
    wow did a stinky Ford beat all those BMWs?
    if BMW needs to go to a F-1 which is not even fully theres, to compete with speed of a Ford, or a Jaguar... then that's pretty lame
     
  9. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    they been told to add more weight...
    how hard was it for the BMW teams to do that?
    bmw has always bended the rules on weight.
    since the BMW was so dominant, i have no idea why they simply followed simple rules, whether they were new or old.
    not like it happened once, to say it was a conspiracy, but many times.
    Jaguar XKR Trans Am, had to change some configuration saying it was unfair. It was rippign Corvettes apart in 2001. That's the reason why there are multiple XKR Trans Ams now, to meet the multiple of rules in various races and racing genres. Trans Am series, has different rules than the ALMS, and so on.
    For 2 BMW teams to be pulled out, that's just plain sad.
    always next year?
     
  10. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    Oh you can compare the XJ220 to the Strass, you just look like an idiot in doing so.

    How are these cars better than BMW? There are no BMWs in that class, BMW doesn't want to go into that class.

    What are you talking about 2 1/2 faster than a BMW? What car are you talking about? Hmmm... I wonder how that Boss Mustang handles and brakes? Thats great, Ford can make a straight line car, I'm so impressed.

    Angus

     
  11. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    bmw doesn't make a competition to the xj220, because frankly they can't do it on their own.. they might come close in revamp models of the M3, like the Strass. The strass and the xj220 actually fall in the same category as street legal racing cars and close price tags.
    different racing categories, i guess you can say that.
    Mustang Boss, has a 0-60 in slightly under 1.9...
    brakes are of course fine, they're brembo.. concept had 13", the falcon has 16" in the v6 version, and 18" in the XR8 version.
    the boss concept was a project by Ford to show the world they can beat most cars going 0-60 in its marque by simply using a 3 speed.
    handling, mustangs handle pretty good, Falcons are said to have better handling and performance than it's coustins.
    will a BMW handle better, you would assume so cause of it's weight.
    Can a Mustang beat an M3, yeah of course.
    But again, i'm sure you're going to say they're different classes.
    Just that a wimpy excuse to support your stupid statement.
     
  12. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    Any car company can make a car as good as the XJ220, its not hard. Just make a really powerful engine. And whether or not you like to admit it, the Boss Mustang is just a straight line car, it has no other attributes. BMW don't make straight line cars, they make cars that are really fun to drive.

    Angus
     
  13. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    yes, they're fun, and so are mustangs, and so are many other cars/

    Mustangs are more than a straight line car
    Even the Boss are more than Straigh line..
    yes the concept was mostly a straight line car, because that was the goal by Ford.
    A mustang will not handle as well as a BMW...
    one cause of its steel chassis, and two cause of it's big engine in the front.
    are mustangs capable of beating a BMW? of course.
    btw if it's not so hard to match the XJ220, how come BMW has yet to make one that matches it? Next thing is, to match that power in a 6 cylinder. Closest thing i've seen is the Strass, but that's with a V8
    that's why i made the comparison, along with the same price, and the fact that both are road legal cars. by no means i'm dissing the car, i'm just commenting that even though you said Jaguars stink and are slow... there are Jaguars that beat even the Strass.
     
  14. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    I didn't say Jag stinks, I said Ford stinks. BMW doesn't want to make a super high performance car, it just wouldn't make sense for them. They are totally capable of it, they have made arguably the best engine on the planet, ie. McLaren F1.

    Angus
     
  15. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    yes you can say mercedez did in that v12 engine.
     
  16. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    Excuse me? What V12 engine?

    Angus
     
  17. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    McLaren
     
  18. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    the McLaren has a BMW V12 in it, I beleive they did that at the same time BMW/McLaren had a F1 team together.

    That chrome jag in your avatar is BIG PIMPIN by they way.
     
  19. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    the car was co made by bmw, mercedez and yes, Ford....
    the car had the same designer as the Jaguar XJ220
    the engine yes is a modified bmw v12 engin, at least in the original

    to note: BMW had their own sole version, i forgot the model name and number, i'm sure you BMW fans know what it's called...
    it is/was on supercars
    it was powerful, but no where near McLaren speed nor stats.
    McLaren is similar to Williams.
    Both established in the UK, and known for performance, but use lighter engines built in Germany, like BMW, or Benz.
    companies like Williams, and McLaren, intelligence in this issue can be seen in the F1. Problem with UK engines is that, yes they're very powerful, and often more powerful than the Germans, however they tend to be a lot heavier and thus their 0-60 performance is compromised.
    imust note Jaguar SVO cars are sent to or built in Germany, for it's subsidary Arden and others to build and or modify it into more performance stats.
    After contacted a customer rep wit Ford.
    They claim that Arden can be considered a stock Jaguar, for one reason and that's because some come out of a Jaguar SVO factory plant. SVO some stupid code name Ford made, similar to the SVT in its line. Paramount is one such example in the UK, and Arden in Germany.
    Only one place in the US, is authorized to sell stock Jaguar/Arden. That's in Manhattan Jaguar dealer. All others are modified.
    About Jaguar F1, i heard they're finally ditching the Ford engine, for a much lighter engine.

    That chrome Jag, btw is the new 2003-2004 Jaguar XJ.
    Depending on it's 2003 European review and depending how fast an Arden model is made and it's price difference, it probably will be my new car in 2004. I don't know about a chrome jag, but a nice metallic silver is still hot.
     
  20. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    Jag F1 doesn't use a Ford engine, its a cosworth engine. Cosworth is almost completley separate from ford. ALL McLaren F1 road cars use BMW V12s.
     
  21. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    Good point, idiot.

    Angus
     
  22. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    and who currently owns McLaren?
    it's not BMW now isn't it..
    it's actually DaimlerChrysler
    McLaren is by far not a BMW, and it's deal with BMW has long been terminated (1998).
    the best McLaren was the 1995 McLaren F1 LM, with an original price of $1 250 000 USD with a 6.1 V12 engine, with a 0-60 in 2.9 seconds.
    0-100 in 6.7
    6 speed manual used
    668 hp and at 110.16 bhp per litre is fairly impressive,

    lets compare this to a Ford, though a concept, but since "Ford Stinks" as what mr. angus suggested, this supercar must blow away it away.

    so lets take a look at a 1995 Ford car, The GT90, which actually if it would have went into production was Ford's way of answering to the McLaren. The technology of this car actually came from the XJ220

    price=. with a 6.0 V12 engine 0-60 in 3.1 seconds
    0-100 in 6.2 seconds
    5 speed manual used.
    720hp and at 121.48 bhp per litre


    far more impressive stats than even the dubbed supreme McLaren.
    so i see, a Ford beating a McLaren in 0-100, in HP, and HP per litre.
    looks, the GT90 looks horrible, the McLaren is hot.
    price tag, well the GT90 was actually going to be around the original cost of the XJ220 about $600,000.
    Ford stoped production of its planned 100 cars, because it's too expensive to sell and market. more than one is claim to exist. They scaled down to what is now called the GT40, at a 100,000 price.

    i'm not gonna both comparing it to the XJ220, because that's a 6 cylinder.. there are stil those who still believe that the XJ220 is better than the McLaren. The non-produced v12 version would have destroyed the McLaren. Reason not produced: $
    $ is perhaps the same reason why BMW didn't create their own version

    another note, Angus again you mentioned an UK company's car. Granted it used the BMW engine, and the only reason why it did was because it was lighter. and i will say it again, show me a pure BMW that'll beat the XJ220, or the XJR-15, XJR-13 or even the Ford GT90
     
  23. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    I didn't bother reading all of that, nor will I. The McLaren had a BMW V-12, that was better than anything Jag or Ford has.

    Angus
     
  24. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    if you read it, you'll notice that the ford GT90 and the prototype XJ220 with the V12 would have beated the F1 in several categories.
    as a production model, you can say the McLaren edges out the production XJ220.
    some would still argue that the Jaguar is still better.
    the McLaren was a group effort, and it's design was solely to beat the Jaguar XJ220. Jaguar has a 6 cylinder engine in it, the McLaren has a V12. there is a big difference there... but not so much in performance
    anyway, about 0-60, if you change the tranny in the xj220 to the same F1 type tranny found in the McLaren, you'll get matching 0-60 speeds if not faster.
    both cars are awesome. but here are the real facts:

    94 Jag = 194.4 bhp per litre 680.0 bhp 526.6 ft lbs 2315 lbs 228.7 mph 3.3 seconds

    95 Jag= 194.4 bhp per litre 680.0 bhp 714.0 ft-lb 2,313 lb 228.6 mph 3.3 seconds

    95 McLaren = 110.16 bhp per litre 668.0 bhp 520.0 ft lbs 2341 lbs 225.0 mph 2.9 seconds 6.7 seconds

    97 McLaren = 103.41 bhp per litre 627.1 bhp 479.0 ft lbs 2496 lbs 240.0 mph 3.2 seconds

    jaguar is lighter, more powerful, more efficient and with higher HP to liter, and HP to weight. and yes, the Jaguar is three to four times less in price as well.

    again, McLaren isn't BMW, what part of that don't you understand?
    BMW never owned McLaren, they brokered a deal with them yes.
    To note though, McLaren is currently owned by DaimlerChrysler.
    that's why i say McLaren is a benz and not a bmw.

     
  25. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    of course i know the Jag used Cosworth.
    cosworth is ford... completely owned by Ford
    it's not separate. it is not like Williams and BMW.
    maybe you weren't aware of that, that's ok.

    as i notted you are right, all McLarens from 1995-1998 had a modified BMW engine.
    All current McLarens have a Mercedez engine.
     

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