BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

Discussion in '2002 BMW M3 CSL Concept' started by JaguarX, Aug 31, 2002.

  1. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    what current McLarens use benz engines other than the F1 car?

    Cosworth Founders
    Mike Costin
    Born: 1929
    Education: Salvatorian College, Harrow Weald;
    engineering apprenticeship, de Havilland Aircraft Co, Hatfield;
    licensed aircraft engineer 1950.
    1953-1955 Design Draughtsman, de Havilland.
    1953-1956 Lotus Engineering, part-time and full-time
    1956- 1962 Technical Director, Lotus Cars
    Keith Duckworth
    Born: 1933
    Education: Giggleswick School, Yorkshire and Imperial College, London
    1957-1958 transmission development engineer with Lotus
    1958 Founded Cosworth Engineering Chairman and chief engineer until 1988.
    Member of main board of UEI plc.
    1989 Retired from executive management of Cosworth.

    About Cosworth
    It's in the blood...
    On the Motorsport World Stage Cosworth Racing engines are used in all major race and rally categories powering numerous champions at the very highest levels in their fields.

    With experience spanning four decades, Cosworth Racing is a world leader in design, development and manufacture of ultra high performance gasoline engines for racing, rally and road car applications. Cosworth Racing provides power plant technology and design solutions for premier teams in Formula 1, World Rally, CART (USA) and Motorbike racing, as well as racing engine technology transfer to the Premier Automotive Group of Ford Motor Company.

    Jaguar Racing’s R3 and Arrows’ A23 is powered with the CR-3 engine, an evolution of last year’s power plant boasting many performance enhancements
    The Cosworth engineered Duratec ‘R’ powers the Ford Focus RS WRC rally car
    The XF engine powers four teams in the US CART series
    Aprilia is just one of the new relationships formed with the CEG - the Commercial Engineering Group which specialises in providing low-volume engine projects
    Formed 1958, founders Mike Costin and Keith Duckworth
    Part of the Premier Performance Division together with PI Research and Jaguar Racing
    Headquarters in Northampton, UK, support facility for US racing programs, CA, US
    Wholly owned by Ford, since fourth quarter 1998
    725 employees; 650 UK, 75 US
    Precision sandcasting foundry Bridgenorth, UK

    Cosworth is mearly a company owned by ford. They werent something created by ford. If they made whole cars it would be the same situation as jaguar and ford. Ford did not design the F1 motor, Cosworth did it FOR ford.
  2. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    Hey guys, remember when JaguarX didn't know that BMW made the McLaren engine! Good times. Your credibility has been shot one more time.

  3. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    BMW didn't make the McLaren you retard.
    McLaren did.
    did they use a BMW engine... yes a modified one.
    you have no crediblity to begin with, so you're the last one who should talk.
    remember when you though the Williams was a BMW?
    when you thought the Mini was german?
    when you thought a Ford can't beat a BMW?
    when you though a Jaguar can't beat a BMW?
    when you thought Jaguar were more expensive?
    oh yes, good times
  4. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    the next series F1 cars, and of course the F1s.
    last time i checked, McLaren only made F1 vehicle types.

    yes cosworth designed the engine, but it's owned by Ford.
    unlike WIlliams, which isn't owned by BMW.
    i was drawing that comparison.
    the Jaguar F1 is a fully Ford owned car. The R4 plans is to replace the cosworth engine and it'll probably come from a non-Ford owner company. that's what i meant it will no longer be a Ford engine.
  5. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    BMW did make the McLaren Engine. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that it was Modified, McLaren didn't touch, BMW gave it to McLaren, and they put in the car.
    No, we never talked about the Mini. That was HotBoxer
    I never said that Ford couldn't beat BMW. I said that Ford sucks.
    I never said that Jaguar can't beat a BMW. I said that Jag sucks.
    Jaguars are more expensive depending on which you are comparing. Take for instance the July 2002 edition of Road and Track. The BMW 330i which placed 2nd has a list price of $33 990, while the Jaguar X type 3.0 which placed 10th has a list price of $35 950.

    Note: After options the BMW costs $39 519, and the Jaguar costs $46 510.
    BMW 330i options:
    Sports Package
    Glass Sunroof
    Xenon Headlights
    Metalic Paint

    Jaguar X Type 3.0 options:
    Xenon Headlights
    Metalic Paint
    X3 weather package
    Premium Sound Package
    Navagation System
    X1 Premium Package
    X2 Sports Package

  6. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    um that's exactly what he said, BMW made the ENGINE. I think we have established that by now.
  7. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    yes i know that, but it's not a bmw car.
    next thing you're going to tell me is that the land rover hse is a bmw also?
    i wanted a pure bmw for a comparison. not a mclaren nor a williams.
    does bmw make good f1 engines.
    yes most definetly.
    but i want to know what is their best high-performance (non-f1 car) there is.
  8. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    I would assume that the Z8 is their best/fastest car.
  9. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    I do like the way the Z8 looks.
    it has a 5.0L v8 engine, giving off 394hp / 368 ft lbs of torque, at a price tag of $131,000 dollars. (convertible)
    3494 lbs
    6 speed manual transmission
    0-60 in about 4.7 seconds, 4.9 for the convertible
    all data provided by

    i know that's a current production car. But that's cannot be the best production car.
    the XKR, at $86,975 (convertible) has 390hp / 408 ft lbs of torque
    4938 lbs.
    6 speed automatic transmision
    0-60 in about 5.2 seconds, 5.3 for the convertible.
    data through

    since these two models are competing against each other, it's a fair comparison.
    Price: Jaguar
    0-60: BMW
    HP: even
    HP per liter: Jaguar
    Torque: Jaguar
    steering: Jaguar ( - convertible versions compared)
    weight : bmw
    MPG: Jaguar
    luxury: even (both cars uses plastic, enough said -
    styling: matter of opinion

    it virtually comes down to this. Why is the Jaguar slower? One reason is of course the weight, but the main reason is that the BMW has a better transmission (SMG).
    can jaguar produce a naturally inspired car, with a sub 5.0 second 0-60. Yes, that's the XKR-R. Which actually is the concept car which eventually turned out to be base for the beginning of the Arden XKA.

    i believe, that Jaguars offer better engines, in terms of HP, torque, and recent demonstration of reliability over BMW. However, BMW provides lighter engines, with lighter cars, with a far better transmission. BMW offers manual transmission, Jaguar unfortunately doesn't. Therefore BMW does have an edge there on performanc.
    However, realistically, how many times do you drive 0-60s on the road?
    The Z-8 happens to be my favorite production BMW, so i'm not dissing it. I'm Just comparing, even yahoo did that.
    in terms of engine performance they are close.
    price, the Z8 is very expensive.
    I'd rather get an XKR, for smooth rides with the top down, and get myself another car with the price difference.
  10. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    the M5 and Z8 do not have SMG transmissions, only the M3 does.
  11. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    m5 i believe has the SMG II, but i might be mistaken.
    i know the Z8, and i didn't say it said.
    I'm saying that transmission is what makes the car runs so great.
  12. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    The M5 and Z8 only come with a 6 speed manual.
  13. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    incase u didnt know, this M3 csl is better than a regular m3
  14. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    haha that jag guy is so funny...
    Why does the S-type R beats the M5?
    Every magazine says the M5 is better and the RS6 too. The S-type R is close though, but i'm talking about english mags like Evo or top gear, so why do u think those jaguar R models are better then the rest, if even english guys doesn't think so.
  15. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    motortrend and many other magazines gave the S-Type R as a better buy.
    the Jaguar has more options STANDARD, BMW has a far higher price and Jaguar reliability were the main reason,
    as well, as claiming the Jaguar was easier to drive for normal commutes. to paraphrase, you don't need to be a rocket science to drive a jaguar, as would if you wanted to drive the bmw.
    if you want to talk about
    performance, no, a Jag 4.2L detuned supercharged will not match a 4.4L tuned M5 engine. though they are very close in terms HP/torque.
    bmw got the favorable 0-60.
    if you trully want a more performance S-Type R, then you'd get the Arden upgrade
    but of course, it wouldn't be fair to compare a 4.4L supercharged engine with 468hp, 186 mph top speed, and 0-60 in 4.6 seconds to the M5? the prices of both are comparably the same, btw.
  16. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    Hey bro whats your beef with the M3? Ya gotta agree its one sexy *****! And a pussy magnet to boot.....when I start rollin in dough this car is on my list. The new Aston Martin GT is lookin pretty dope too! The Jag, as you brag, takes a back seat in my taste......just preference. By then money wont be an issue.

    "There are all things known~there are all things unknown, and in between are The Doors" *Jim Morrison*
  17. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    i honestly got nothing against the M3, because i do prefer the inline 6 over the v6.
    all i'm saying that the M3 dominance in its category will be numbered, the X-Type R is a suitable car to possible take away its reigns. similarly to what has happening to the 3-Class
    bmw said jaguar wouldn't be able to sell more than 80k X-Types.
    They are at 90k and counting. With production to expand to 140k produced in the next year(s).
    This is of course compared to 300k from BMW.
    Just three years ago, the X-Type was just a concept.
    Two and a half years ago, there was the productiong of the 2.5 and the 3.0, and couple months later the 2.0.
    Within 3 years from now, this 3 model line will be expanded to at least 6 cars. A Turbo-diesel version will be available, as well as a supercharged 3.0, and the new 3.5L engine as well.
    picture a 3.5L supercharged Jag against a 3.2L BMW.
    looks may be an issue based on opinion, but at least with Jaguar you get power seats, leather and a lot more Standard. Though BMW i admit has a lot more technology placed in their cars. but that at times takes away the fun, the thrill and sometimes the challenge of driving.
    but again all opinion.
    BMW has about 70 years working on the 3-series.
    Jaguar has about 4 years with the X-Type.
    BMW know what it's doing with the car. Excpet for a couple recalls in the last couple years... Jaguar really doesn't know much about it's X-Type. When the 2nd Generation X-Type hit the roads, i believe many people will slightly change their perception on Jaguar.
    Just remember which auto company trully has a racing heritage,
    and that's Jaguar.
  18. Re: BMW M3 vs Jaguar XR

    X-Type R 3.0 will have 337 HP torque unknown
    and will come with the option of a manual transmission,
    the only Jaguar R model to offer it.

    so no it wont match the M3, as what was deemed.
    though the 3.5L may be of most potential.

    what i'm syaing is this. M3 is no longer alone. The 3-class got hit hard. But the M3 is what's keeping bmw going.
    more power to BMW if they bring out the 5.5L V10
    lets see how it fairs to the Audi R, the Benz, and the Jag 6.0 v12
    i'm glad car companies are re-introducing larger engines!

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