BMW still ahead???

Discussion in '2002 Jaguar S-Type R' started by Adam Orrock, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. I think so. the performance stats of the M3 AND the M5 are matched with the Chevy Corvette. So it still think that the BMW still wins. what do you think?<!-- Signature -->
  2. Re: BMW still ahead???

    The BMW may be still ahead on a race track , but I think the S-Type R wins in a drag race.Why? Because this car as a compressor , its torque is much higher than a M3 and even higher than the M5.
  3. Re: BMW still ahead???

    you would really have to know the price to compare them, but the M5 is pretty damn sweet, ill say that. i also think the M5 looks a bit better
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  4. Re: BMW still ahead???

    if you ask me, the BMWs are made for the younger least the M3's more sporty, which gives it an edge on the race track...mostly middle-aged people would enjoy the Jaguar just because it's more luxurious...and some of my friends tell me that the Jaguars are a pain in the behind when it comes time to maintain the engine...<!-- Signature -->
  5. Re: BMW still ahead???

    Hey... preformance would come second when you got a car that looks this good...
    The M5 looks bland next to this...
  6. Re: BMW still ahead???

    I would take this over the M5...

    Jaguar refuse to release its times from its testing on the nurenburg (Spelling??) circuit in germany... All they would say is this car performs well. When asked about matching the M5 they wouldnt comment... Does anybody have any connections that could find out these times?<!-- Signature -->
  7. Re: BMW still ahead???

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Jaguar XJ220</i>
    <b>I would take this over the M5...

    Jaguar refuse to release its times from its testing on the nurenburg (Spelling??) circuit in germany... All they would say is this car performs well. When asked about matching the M5 they wouldnt comment... Does anybody have any connections that could find out these times?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    If it were close to the M5 or beating it they would have released it.
  8. Re: BMW still ahead???

    this car is very close to M5 in performance, and this 0-60 i believe was made with a none production car. i believe jag changed it gearbox computer so the engine will rev to it red line. so production cars i believe are faster than this time.
    anyway this is more of a everyday driving car, than M5.
  9. Re: BMW still ahead???

    it's 5.2 0-60.
    with full UK options, it'll be 0-60 in 4.6 seconds.
  10. Re: BMW still ahead???

    It doesn't thought does it. A compressor is a "turbo" with constant power whereas this is just supercharged, no turbos/compressors involved.
  11. Re: BMW still ahead???

    the S-Type R beats the M5 0-40,
    and 0-150
    i know that the XKR has a better 1/4 mile than the m5.
    i've seen reports of an arden s-type racing, and was said to outperform the xka.
    so there is a lot to say about the s-type design.
  12. Re: BMW still ahead???

    If i bought this car it would be maily because of its luxury features, it is soo damn nice inside. Performance comes second.
  13. Re: BMW still ahead???

    The S-TYPE R will never beet the M5 in the track or in the street or even in its drems becasue the M5 is not faster only it handels better

    0 to 62mph 5.3
    0 to 102mph 12.7
    32 to 72mph 4.8
    1/4 mile 13.2 @ 108 mph

    S-TYPE R:
    0 to 62mph 5.6
    0 to 102mph 12.9
    32 to 72mph 5.0
    1/4 mile 13.6 @ 105 mph
  14. Re: BMW still ahead???

    Both BMW and the Jag have pimped out engins as you can tell by the near identical speed times!! But BMW I think that the M5 is going to be faster on a track because BMW makes their cars more sporty cause of thier image that they have to keep up(and that they tweak the shit out their cars). Also even thought Jag put a really nice 6 speed auto its still not going to be able to beat a car on the track that has a manual transmission like the M5's 6 speed. thats the bottome line!!!
  15. Re: BMW still ahead???

    why don't you share 0-40 speeds, and top speeds.
    you'll be surprised who wins
  16. Re: BMW still ahead???

    true, and an manual Jaguar destroys the BMW.

    to note,
    the 2004 Jaguar XK-RS, beats all current production BMWs.

    therefore, BMW is no longer ahead.
  17. Re: BMW still ahead???

    Full UK options? Sounds like a lot of BS to me. Manufacturers almost always claim the fastest times they can get. In fact, many manufacturers claims are higher than those that magazines are able to attain as they use a driver that knows every aspect of their machine. Why would Jag claim 5.2 secs to 60 if they could run the car to 60 in 4.6. The Jag is slower than the E39 M5 end of story. Get over it already.

    And as for comparing 0-40 and top speed times. First off, no one looks at 0-40 times. Who gives a damn if the Jag can get to 40 first. What matters is who's in front at the end of the drag race. The Jag may leap (no pun inteneded) off the line first, but if the M5 smokes it after that, I could give a rip. Everyone always looks at 0-some speed times. Don't look at how long it takes a car to reach a certain speed, look at how long it takes a car to cover a certain distance. As for top speed, The BMW is electronically limited to 155mph.

    I am in no way denying the capabilies of the S-Type R. In fact I'm glad that Jag has gotten serious about making the S-Type a true tire burner as that means more sport sedan articles, and it forces BMW to step up their engineering. I'm just saying that even with 390hp on tap, the S-Type R fails to surpass the E39 M5.
  18. Re: BMW still ahead???

    I hope you're not saying that when a comparable BMW and a comparable Jaguar (3 series vs. X-Type, 5 Series vs. S-Type etc...) go head to head, that a Jag equipped with a manual tranny will hand the BMW it's ass, because that's the biggest bunch of BS I've heard all day. First of all, Jaguar only offers manual transmissions on the X-Type, and the V6 equipped S-Types. A 325i manual would own an X-Type 2.5 manual. Same thing happens when you compare a 330i manual to an X-Type 3.0 manual. The only comparo which I would say comes close is the BMW 530i manual and the Jaguar S-Type 3.0 Manual. Then again the Jag benefits from a 15hp advantage. Even then, the BMW's better suspension would most likely hand the Jag i's ass in the corners. And when one compares the 540i 6 speed to the S-Type 4.2, there is no competition. Add to that that Jag doesn't even offer a manual with the S-Type 4.2. Like I said, Jags come close, but they don't surpass BMW's.

    And it's very smart to compare cars which haven't even materialized yet to cars that currently roam the streets. And by smart I mean f**king retarded. I could come back and say that the rumored BMW M1 sucessor will beat all current productions Jag's. Try supporting your claims with a few numbers once in a while.
  19. Re: BMW still ahead???

    a modified manual transmission S-Type R did 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, as reported by Arden, and tested on Germany tracks. Jaguar offers manual transmissions only to Arden, as per contract. Models are going to phased into the regular model line-up.
    And that 4.6 seconds stat, I believe that's faster than the 4.8 offered by the M5. would be the sight.

    a 325I with AWD would actually get beated by a Jaguar X 2.5;
    the 330I beats the X-Type 3.0 with equal equipment 0-60 by .1-.2 seconds, as per Motortrend comparisons. Plus, the BMW was $2,000 more.

    the 540 6 speed with a 4.4L has 10 HP less than a Jaguar 4.2L
    The 540 6 Speed does 0-60 in 6 seconds with a manual, Highly unimpressive since the as per what says.
    as you can see, Jaguar virtually matches it with a smaller displacement engine and also a much longer car. The S-Type body is actually larger than the 7 series.

    The only problem about your road thing is, the XKA actually runs around in the streets. Funded by Jaguar of Europe, and Arden it is considered a special edition more than anything. You can go to the Jaguar Dealership of Manhattan and various places and actually see these cars.
    Granted the RS is not out yet, since it's an 2004 model, but I can send you some pictues of it.
    the same engine technology will be transfered to sedans models the following year. The RS features a 4.6L supercharged engine with a 6 speed sequential transmission or manual. Granted the Z8 was the target and from stats from Germany and the UK, it shows much success in the program. 465kw is the estimated power. and 0-60 to be under 4.0 seconds. Granted it is also a lightweight model version.
  20. Re: BMW still ahead???

    S-Type with a manual transmission, a $4,000 option in certain dealerships in Europe that are certified and authorized.
    Includes increase in supercharger. Making its output 450HP.
  21. #21 bruddah man matt, Feb 11, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: BMW still ahead???

    Your comparing Arden modified Jags to BMW M cars is an unfair comparo. You want to be fair. Compare the Arden to Hamman's, Alpina's, Dinan's or Hartge modified BMW's. And preaching about how an S-Type with "full UK options" (more bullshit) will outrun an M5 just to make Jags look superior to BMW is pretty sad. Tell it like it is. That the S-Type had to be heavily modified by another company to outrun the M5. We're comparing the M5 to the S-Type R and your talking out of your ass by bringing up Arden vechicles.

    As for your claim that the S-Type's body is larger than that of the BMW 7 Series (I assume you're talking about the E60), more bullshit. The Jag isn't even as large as the standard wheelbase 745i. Let's not even talk about the long wheelbase 745Li and 760Li.

    BMW 745i

    lbs 4376

    Weight distribution
    % 50.4/49.6

    in 117.7

    Track, front/rear
    in 62.1/62.3

    in 198.0

    in 74.9

    Height, unloaded
    in 58.7

    BMW 760Li

    lbs 4872

    Weight distribution

    in 123.2

    Track, front/rear
    in 62.1/62.3

    in 203.5

    in 74.9

    Height, unloaded
    in 58.7

    Jaguar S-Type R

    Length 192.0 in.
    Height 56.0 in.
    Width 81.1 in. (with mirrors)
    71.6 in. (without mirrors)

    Track Front: 60.4 in. /
    Rear: 60.7 in.
    Wheelbase 114.5 in.

    Coefficient of drag (Cd) 0.32
    Vehicle weight 4046 lb.

    As for comparable accelerations between various Bimmers and Jags. all taken from and

    325xi manual 0-60 7.8 secs
    325i manual 0-60 7.1 secs
    330i manual 0-60 6.4 secs
    525i manual 0-60 7.8 secs
    530i manual 0-60 6.8 secs
    540i manual 0-60 6.0 secs

    X-Type 2.5 manual 0-60 7.9 secs
    X-Type 3.0 manual 0-60 6.6 secs
    S-Type 3.0 (not sure if it was the 5 speed manual, or new 6 speed automatic that was being quoted) 7.3 secs

    So in response to your comments, no a BMW 325xi 5 speed manual is faster than a Jaguar X-Type 2.5.

    Now granted these are only 0-60 times, but the manufacturers did not quote 1/4 mile times so these are the numbers I chose to use. As you can see, every comparable Bimmer beats out every comparable Jag. Don't ***** about how they do it, or that the BMW's are only faster by a very slim margin, the point is that they're faster cars. And lets not forget that their suspensions are better engineered and not compromised as is the case with the Jaguar X-Type. You want how much for a Ford Mondeo? The only reason the X-Type was made AWD in the first place was because Jaguar KNEW that buyers would shun a FWD Jag. Even then, because the X-Type sold so poorly, they went ahead and released an anemic 2.0L powered FWD version anyway. Face it man, your Jags are outrunned, outgunned and outmatched by the cars that they boys over in Munich are putting together. And all this coming from me... a guy who's real automotive obsession centers around musclecars.
  22. Re: BMW still ahead???

    i said the bmw xi was .1 seconds faster, and you just proved it.
    and about body lengths, you also proved my point.
    the 7 series just got an update, because in the prior year, the S was bigger. and as you can, it's just by a couple inches from the 745.
    Therefore, still in length, the S competes against the 5 and 7 series.
    the 2.0L were already sold for a long time, and were mainly sold in the UK, to compete against the Mini.
    The 2.0 is no longer built btw. Not like BMW isn't planning on doing the same thing (1-series)

    BMW uses a manual transmission, while the Jaguar uses an automatic. For a fair comparison both transmissions types should be the same.
    BMW also uses a larger displacement.
    Looking at the 4.2L and the 4.4L you see what i'm talking about. Jaguar has 300HP, BMW has 290HP. Again, Conventry doing far better.
    To note, what is Arden?
    Arden is a Jaguar dealership, funded and control through Jaguar. Not necessarily an outside company. It isn't nothing more different than SVT. Going to tell me a Cobra isn't Ford? Arden is what TWR or Lister was of years past.
    Why I picked Arden? Because they're the only one licesensed to put a manual in.
    for $5,000 basically the price difference between the M5, and the S-R (since the M5 cost more) the Jaguar is faster with a smaller displacement.

    In todays age, BMW are lower powered compared to Jaguar even with a larger displacment, and only show minimal gains in terms of speed.
    largly due to their lighter and smaller body, and not necessarily to german tuning.
  23. #23 bruddah man matt, Feb 18, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: BMW still ahead???

    You claimed that a Jag X-Type 2.5 5 spd manual could outrun a BMW 325xi in your first post. So umm... NO. Actually, I didn't prove your point. I proved you wrong by showing you that a 325xi 5 spd is faster than a Jag X-Type 2.5 5 spd. Secondly, you only said that the S-Type was larger than the 7 Series, you didn't specify whether you were talking about the E38, or the E65 generation. So technically I'm right because I've just shown that the E65 is larger than the S-Type. Oh and BTW if you were talking about the previous 7 Series and just forgot to mention it... YOU'RE STILL WRONG. The E38 7 Series introduced in '95 is still larger than an S-Type.

    BMW E38 740i

    Curb Weight 4255 lbs.

    Wheelbase 115.4 in.

    Track FR 60.9 in.

    Track RR 61.5 in.

    Length 196.2

    Width 73.3 in.

    Height 56.5 in.

    BMW E38 750iL

    Curb Weight 4553 lbs.

    Wheelbase 120.9 in.

    Track FR 60.9 in.

    Track RR 61.5 in.

    Length 201.7 in.

    Width 73.3 in.

    Height 56.1 in.

    Specs for the Jaguar S-Type R AGAIN

    Length 192.0 in.
    Height 56.0 in.
    Width 81.1 in. (with mirrors)
    71.6 in. (without mirrors)

    Track Front: 60.4 in. /
    Rear: 60.7 in.
    Wheelbase 114.5 in.

    Coefficient of drag (Cd) 0.32
    Vehicle weight 4046 lb.

    As for your claim that it's unfair that the BMW M5 has a 6 spd manual and the S-Type R a 6 spd Automatic... too bad. That's what Jag chose to equip their cars with, so that's what you're stuck with. I've looked over at Arden's hompage and was unable to find any mention that they have fully exclusive ties with Jaguar save for Jaguar of Germany with which they have technical specs and the like to Jaguar products which other Jag tuners do not have. HOWEVER, this would be comparable to Alpina. BMW and Alpina have a close relationship with one another. I don't doubt that Arden's are much more sport oriented than Alpina's (Alpina tuned BMW's have always been less harsh and edgy than BMW's own M products). So if you want to talk about how Arden's can outrun Alpina's go ahead. But don't go comparing tuner cars to in house products. It sounds like you just can't accept the fact that BMW's are faster than their Jaguar counterparts. Arden IS NOT the equivalent to BMW's M Division or Ford's SVT. Jaguar already has a team called SVO (Special Vehicle Operations) which is responsible for churning out the R Products. There is no mention of Arden on Jaguar's homepage. And then you go on to compare Arden to TWR and Lister. Let me help you out here. SVT AND BMW'S M DIVISION ARE NOT THE SAME AS TWR OR LISTER. You genius, TWR DOES NOT have exclusive ties with any particular manufacturer. Yes they have been responsible for assisting in development and construction of several Jaguar products, but they are still independent. Same thing with Lister. You contradict yourself by comparing Arden to SVT and the M Division and then comparing Arden to TWR and Lister. I'm sorry it has come to this, but you are ignorant. You refuse to accept what is truth because you don't want to admit that performance wise, your precious Jaguar's are inferior to BMW's.

    Oh and as for saying that Jaguar's engines are better engineered because they displace less then their respective BMW engines, now you're just being stupid. It's like when Civic drivers ***** and whine about how that LS1 Camaro has some 4L more of displacement. hp/l is generally a meaningless measurement which people place too much emphasize on. Sure it measure volumetric efficency, but just because an engine makes more hp/l, it doesn't necessarily mean it's better. What about the fact that all of Jaguar's R cars use superchargers and that the M5's S62 V8 is naturally aspirated. And that despite the fact that the Jag makes 408 lb.ft. of torque compared to the M5's 369 (I believe) lb.ft. it's still SLOWER. Oh yeah I forgot. You have to cry about the lack of a manual in the Jag. In any case, don't ***** about the fact that the BMW is faster because it has a manual tranny, cry about how your Jag is slower because it lacks a manual option. And for like the 4th time, AN ARDEN DOES NOT STACK UP AGAINST AN M CAR. I DIDN'T MENTION, ALPINA, HARTGE, DINAN OR HAMANN, SO WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING ABOUT ARDEN YOU GENIUS.
  24. Re: BMW still ahead???

    perhaps the Conventry 4.5L natural powered 650HP v8 will be to your liking?
    lets face it, power stats belong to the brits.

    hmm an arden would destroy most of the cars you mentioned as well.
    Can it handle a 700HP car?
    If it does, please let me know.
    Because Jaguar and Arden is selling the RS as a car which BMW can't even compete against.

    Can a BMW handle a lightweight 4.5L version of the XK?
    not even with a 5.0 engine
    that was my point which you completely missed.
  25. Re: BMW still ahead???

    oh i mind you, the 4.5L Aj-V8 engine is a pure jaguar engine producing 650HP and will be placed in a limited edition line-up of XKRs with manual or sequential transmission and the lightweight-aluminum body chassis.
    therefore, it's now time for comparisons.
    It will be shown in auto shows soon so the world could see.
    As you can see, Jaguar destroyed the M5 5.0L prestige.
    390 vs 650... anyone could realize the difference.
    How's Munich feeling now?

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