check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

Discussion in '2001 Honda Integra Type R' started by hondalover, Jun 15, 2003.

  1. #1 hondalover, Jun 15, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    It sounds very interesting... The Ferrari 360 Modena is 3.6L right... Check it out:
    3.6/V8/DOHC/400hp at over 8,000rpms. ALL THAT DIVIDED BY 2????????
    1.8/I4/DOHC/200hp at over 8,000rpms.

    But what's the real answer?? ......... 1995-2001 INTEGRA TYPE R (japanesse version) check this http, this car has 200hp not 195, notice it:

    http://www.j-garage.com/1210.htm

    So basicalliy every piston of these two cars are the same volume... (I'm not talking about bore and stroke, SIZE)

    - So honda builds the top engines in the world. They have the power of ferraris and they never give trouble to you, they are reliable... they just need to increase de cubic centimeters... Make a greedy V12 or V8... Imagine if they would put 2 S2000 engines on one... it would be a 4.0L V8 giving out 500hp (with out the need of any turbo...)that would eat any corvette and many ferraris. But the thing is that sice they use very high and ultimate technology, the prizes would go very high and it is not worth it for Honda I think. If they were focused on sports cars, like Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborgini, etc. I think they would definitively do it. But they build Honda Oddeseys, CR-V's...Accords, Pilots... And that's how they make the money. And their sports cars are very small engined and they also sell very good and they dont give problens to people and are bery cheap.
    And for people that think that hp/liter is not important, read this: Ford Focus SVT: 2.0L DOHC 4 valves per cylinder-- 170hp Normally aspirated. 85hp per liter (not bad by the way)
    Honda S2000: 2.0L DOHC 4 VALVES PER CYLINDER-- 250hp (125hp per liter)
    if you doubt it, read it here...
    http://www.j-garage.com/1401.htm
    as a conclusion for these two cars analized, which one is faster???
    don't answer, I know you know.

    share your comments-
     
  2. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    Wouldn't a v8 divided in two be a slant 4? Honda builds top engines in the world as good as ferrari? Have you noticed that Honda Powered BAR is having trouble finishing races while Ferrari is consistently winning. Unfortunately though, I doubt two S2000 engines together would make 500HP. Unfortunately, due to the extra pistons, there is a lot more rotating mass on the crank, taking away from efficency and power. The redline would be decreased unless new internals were used. HP/L and free revability is a lot easier in smaller displacment engines. Besides, even with the 500HP engine, the vettes and Ferraris would still take the S200 in the turns. Plus the added weight of the engine would destroy the amazing weight distribution in the car. The 5.7 LS1 would almost certainly be physicly smaller and lighter than two mated S2000 engines.

    Of course the S2000 has more HP. Its redline is at 9000 RPM with almost no bottom end torque. Plus it costs a hell of a lot more than Focus. Plus I hate the Focus. It is so ugly.
     
  3. #3 beliveinfiction, Jun 16, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    Another Honda boy getting a hard on over hp/L,I got news for you Hp/L is worth NOTHING!!

    The Integra type R motor makes 200hp, thats great but no matter what its still just 200hp, how hp is made makes no difference. If you want to consider it 1/2 of a Modena engine then you also have to recognize that is falls 1/2 way short of being one, which is a HUGE shorcomming.

    I have heard numerous honda boys dreaming over the "s2000 V8" that would make a theroretical 480-500hp. As others have pointed out that HP figure is not 100% accurate but also there are many power plants on the market today already making 500+ hp, and just beacue they dont have high hp/L figures doesnt make them inferior to an engine that isnt even real.

    The only way that hp/L plays any role in performance is in the balance of a car, where a light engine = good balance. Therefore hp/l can help balance a car but alone will not make for a well balanced car. However this is not always true, take a Modena engine and compare it to an LS1. Both V8s, both making about 400hp but is the LS1 V8 significanly heavier or larger in dimensions than the Modena V8? I doubt it. The difference in Bore X Stroke in these two V8's is .64" X .51" This minimal difference in Bore X Stroke means that a minimal amount of weight was gained by the LS1. The end result is an equally powerful motor that weighs nearly the same for a fraction of the price.

    Now why were you saying high hp/L is better?

    my homepage: www.geocities.com/gohomerice/honda.html
     
  4. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    Hondalover has some great points, but he's overly biased.

    Indeed, Honda builds top engines in the world. Remember the Internation Best Engine awards? Honda got many awards from that! Honda used to rule the F-1 series in the 80's and 90's, back in teh days of senna, remember? But now, Honda focuses mroe on making reliable family cars and sports cars, such as the NSX-R, which has beaten the lambogini Murcielago on a track. NSX has been known for its reliabilty.

    "Unfortunately, due to the extra pistons, there is a lot more rotating mass on the crank, taking away from efficency and power."

    This is true, but it doesn't neccessary mean u can't have high redline. Just lok at the 360 modena, BMW M3, Porsche 911 GT3, those have V8 or V6s, but they still rev pretty high.
     
  5. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    Hondas F1 days are over. Viva the Prancing Horse.

    I think one of the spoon engines reves to 13000. This is very difficult for a 4L V8 to accomplish. I am aware that it is possible. The 358ci carburated Nascar V8s can rev to 9000 and still be reliable (500 miles at 200mph) but that makes the engine very expensive.
     
  6. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    Does anyone know the power output of the 13,000rpm spoon 1.8L? I heard it was about 220hp which isnt all that impressive for all those revs. But theres a good chance that i heard wrong.
     
  7. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    BELIEVE IN FICTION: I am not asian and not american. I love Hondas. I love Corvettes, Camaros, Vipers and Mustangs, I love Porsches, BMW's. Ferraris and Lambos. And OK, two S2000 engines on one would lose a little power for moving all that stuff put together but it will still rev high and have over at least 115hp per liter. Which is a #$%#ing lot man. And I dont give a shit about that logo of a little kid piing on a VTEC emblem. Then what tha F U C K do you like jackass???? I think people are jealuos about a simple japanese company making those great engines. And about the comparison between the focus and the S2000, I was not talking about the price of both cars, I was talking about the two 2.0L engines.... There is always a shitty excuse!!! and the S2000 is still cheap. How much would a 2.0L ferrari cost??? (giving out less horsepower and being less reliable and using VERY VERY HIGH TECHNOLOGY). I personally think that talking about cars is the same shit with talking about politics people, we will never get to an agreement. But I love sports cars and I insist, It is increadible what honda makes with 4 stroke internal combustion and normally aspirated engines. Porsche is getting started with that with the GT3... that's good, no turbo = more life to the engine (but I still love turbos)... I own a 1994 Nissan Sentra SE R and an Integra Type R and love them, I really do and for now I wont change them for nothing.
     
  8. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    and about that site you sent me, you are writing down everything to your convenience man... First, every piston of a B18C encine is 450cc and a LS1 piston is 712.5cc. So the thickness of every piston is the same as the place where the spark plug is (I dont know what it is called in english people I'm sorry so I just described it...) So obviously the valves are gonna be bigger. Also, if you observe good enough, with the valves of the Honda engine, there is less head space left, so that means that the valves include or take more space in that part of the engine so that means there are more gases going in and out.... I dont know if you understand my point of view...
    And about americans using DOHC before OHV.... They should have kept up with that technology, just look at the perfectly improved Corvette Z06 engine... Now imagine 1920-2000, 80 years of improving DOHC engines.... damn they would kick some ass!!!!!!
     
  9. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    AND FOR BLACK SILVERADO: WHEN WILL CHEVY ENTER FORMULA ONE???
    If they do, will they aver succeed????? I dont think I will be alive when and if that happens....
    By the way, TOYOTA won on 6 cylinder series NASCAR...!!
    JAP BRANDS RULE MAN...

    Hey people I love all supercars, for those that only talk shit about cars, go F.U.C.K YOURSELVESor make interesting and wise critics, don't use sarcasm, anyways, if you are american, japanese or german, you dont own the companies, you were just born in the country where they build those cars....
     
  10. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)
     
  11. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    I just painted that nissan, it was white before... and someone already scratched it.... danm it.... If I would have seen who was it, I would have beat the shit out of that bastard with an iron bat
     
  12. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    You missed a couple of spots
     
  13. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    I know but I had to take off the engine and I didnt have enough money at that time but I will finish it
     
  14. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    Honda is good at CART though. The reason why Honda's engine can rev high is becuz they use stronger materials, and they are all short stroke engines.
     
  15. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    What's your point? Wow Chevy doesn't race F1. They don't race rally either. Oh well, I guess they'll stick to winning closed wheel racing.

    I'm not knocking Jap Brands I'm just saying that these hypothetical sceneraios of joinong to high HP/L engines is kind of pointless. What if they joined two chevy Gen4 Small blocks together? 1000 HP 1000 lb/ft of torque. I suppose it would suck though since the HP/L would be no where as good as a 900cc engine with a 1mm stroke.

    By the way the above engine is real.
     
  16. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    I can understand what what everyone is saying about the VTEC engines and its obvious that Honda take normal 4 cylinder engines and tune them very highly with the bonus of VTEC, and that cars with engines twice the size cant produce the same kind of figures, for instance muscle cars like cameros and stuff. So, VTEC engines are great because there theoretically better than V8 lumps. But in defence of big engines, if you were to tune a big V8 in the same way as honda VTEC engines are tuned........
     
  17. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    ....then the V8 engines would still produce more emissions, could not possibly produce as much power in proportion to their size due to the large stroke, and would be utterly useless as they already produce good torque at low rpms, and therefore the different cam phases would either do absolutely nothing, or just worsen the performance.

    As for some of the tuning involved, there is already an aftermarket tuning company doing the same to V8 engines, it's called NEGATIVE SUPERCHARGING, essentially they configure a pre-existing engine to open its exhaust valves in the cylinders right at the end of the combustion phase, the force of the combustion resulting in negative pressure in the cylinder when the exhaust valve closes, so when the oxygen is allowed in the cylinder more air is drawn in (due to the vaccuum inside the cylinder). Effectively creating the same excess of pressure as forced induction, however since it's all oxygen instead of spent exhaust gases, the resulting combustion has more force, burns more cleanly and thoroughly, and burns less fuel (not sure about this part, it may result in more fuel consumed). Thus providing the car with better fuel efficiency, lower emissions, and more power. Honda has been doing this to their engines since 1987, which is why at that time their emissions went from just being low, to being lower than any other combustion engine on the market. It's about time someone started doing it to V8 engines.

    The beauty of it is, it is a form of forced induction that can be used with other forms of forced induction, such as turbocharging, or supercharging.

    Anyway, that said, V8 engines could not be tuned the same as Honda engines, as the displacement is too large, which causes inherent impossibilities for the same level of tuning (short of spending millions in R&D for each engine, which would result in your average car with a V8 engine costing exorbitant amounts of money, such that the average person could buy 3 or 4 houses for the same price, and I don't think North American companies want their cars to be unattainable by the middle working class).
     
  18. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    honda sucks except for a few cars...GO BMW AND PORSCHE!!!
     
  19. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    The Civic is faster than the 318i

    What happened to BMW and Porsche in the 1997-1999 SpeedTV challenge when neither could even keep up to the Integra which dominated the series?
     
  20. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    let's not even mention the NSX-R which is faster than ANY production BMW, and is just as fast as the Porsche GT3 - and a better car overall.

    Hell, once again this last weekend, the STi beat out the GT3 as the better car overall, faster around a track (which doesn't seem right, but did happen), less than 1/10 of a second slower in acceleration, and dominated in every other area.
     
  21. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    You have such advantageous knowledge of V8s and other things. How do you know so much? Have you worked for Chevy or Ford then quit and went to work for Honda? So why don't Hondas engines cost a lot then, brimming with their abundance of technology that could never be used with a lowly V8?
     
  22. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    Listen here Honda fans...I'm a lover of Honda myself, but you can't just go around making up imaginary stories about fusing two s2000 engines or if the 360 modena was half the size, etc. You guys just make other Honda fans (and any other Japanese car fan) look like biased fools. Stick to the facts. Inline 4's are normally high revving (horsepower greatly exceeding torque), while V8's are normally large displacement cars (with torque numbers around the same numerical value as horsepower). They are practically opposites. Yes a inline 4 can eat a V8+ on a track, but so can a V8 do to a inline 4. So chill on the V8 bashing. Some people like spending 10-30 G's and doing up the car themselves to get high performance, some people like it high performance out of the box so they spend $50000+. What I'm really trying to say is, let the numbers do the talking. Real numbers that is, not theoretical.
     
  23. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    not possible you cannot say that two plus two 2L engines will produce the same or more than a 4L engine cos the 4L engine has much more moving parts and heat thus its Hp /L will be more difficult to produce. Of course not that honda could not do it but look at it this way even the honda nsx with 3.2L engine barely makes it to the 100hp/l mark. and that is hondas flag ship ...
     
  24. Re: check this out about the old Integra Type R...(1.8L)

    but the nsx is pretty old....and its hp figure.....may be underrated too. Have u watched the August 04 Best Motoring video? In a race against 360 modena, 360 challenge, 911 GT3 CS, Gallardo, and M3 CSL, the NSX-R won the race.
     
  25. The NSX-R outperforms most V* ferraris due to the imapct its vtec system has on its mid and high range acceleration. While it is my favorite car, I think that Honda didn't put enough effort into advancing it as most other companies do their flagships. Most likely this is due to the rather......lacking sales of the NSX in comparison to their other models. Frankly few would want to spend 70K+ on a honda, few more like the significant lack of low end gruntlike they get from most V8 sports cars. As for merging two I4's into a V8 and keeping the same power, don't count on it. Between the way the air is fed into each engine type, the greater forces involved, the increase in weight and moving parts, etc etc etc. The point is we'll never know until Honda ACTUALLY makes an engine with more than 6 cylinders. I wouldn't be too surprised if they find a way to make a higher displacement motor and involve Variable Valve Timing. Anything's possible.
     

Share This Page