De-tuned F1?

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Pando, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. #1 Pando, Jul 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    I'm considering paying for getting to drive a little in an F1 car, however the price is pretty steep and after briefly examining the specifications for the cars it seems they are heavily de-tuned:

    http://www.se.no/pages/bilene/default.htm

    It seems to me they are limited to 12 000 RPM, which is quite sad since these machines are capable of well over 18 000 RPM. [1]

    Limiting the cars to 12 000 RPM is like putting a limit on a regular sports car at 4000 RPM, when the sports car has a redline at 8000 RPM.

    By putting the redline at 12 000 RPM you basically stop the fun just when the fun starts, the F1 engines are RPM machines that need very high RPM before they start making power, they are basically preventing the engine from working in its natural power band.

    Am I right, or am I missing something?

    Obviously they are doing this to prevent people from killing themselves and from preventing excess engine wear and gearbox wear. But I'm one of those who would be deeply disappointed, I believe, to find that the engine "stops just when it was about to start".


    References:

    [1] http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/869
     
  2. I think you'll have your hands quite full with the car. Did you see Richard Hammond trying to drive a race spec F1 car? Its not easy.
     
  3. I was looking for input on what they have done with the car, and perhaps what else might have been done with it to ruin my fun.

    As to comment on your statement; yeah, well, people are different. Richard Hammond couldn't even get the 2.0 liter Formula Renault car off the line without stalling the engine or drive it around a corner without spinning. I went from a bicycle to a GSX-R 1000 with no problems at all -- which I regularly play with at full throttle and at top speed. Everyone I know said I'd die, yet years after, I'm still here.

    I think I'll manage the F1 car at full race spec, I don't care what "Richard Hammond" does or does not manage.
     
  4. 1. Year
    2. Make
    3. Model
    4. Engine
    5. Trans-if applicable
    6. Your level of experience working on your own car
    7. What the problem is
     
  5. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you're gonna get raped by the F1 car if you even venture near its limits. Also, limiting an 18000rpm car to 12000rpm is NOT like limiting an 8000rpm car to 4000rpm - it's like limiting an 8000rpm car to 5333rpm.
     
  6. 7. Your a twat.
     
  7. It's still 550 horsepower in something that weighs 600kg.
    that's nearly 1000 horsepower per ton. Which isn't exactly slow.

    Their business relies on reliability of the cars. It's really inconvenient and costly to replace a F1 motor because some idiot decided to bounce it off the limiter.

    By the looks of things, they send you out in the lower formula cars before they let you loose in the F1. If you act like a dick and manage to shunt it, they won't let you near their F1 car.
     
  8. the power will be plenty, you will have trouble pushing the car to its lateral limits and then handling it there. high downforce cars dont act linear in their response when the speed goes up from what i know.
     
  9. You wouldnt even come close to handling an F1 car.

    You probably are a pretty bad motorcycle rider too if you think being able to go straight fast means youre good.

    I have 2.5 years of track experience and I cant even push our formula SAE car all the way (although im quite fast in it). Trying to do it in something with 15 times the horsepower and 2.5 times the lateral grip is so far even out of my league its not even funny, let alone someone with no experience.

    Chances are you never even get the tires warm.

    and stalling them is incredibly easy. Getting the tires warm is hard. The cars are practically undrivable on cold tires. You have to drive fast to warm them up. Good luck there, hot shot.
     
  10. Well if the specs listed on that site are accurate, they haven't detuned or limited the engines, they've outright replaced them. All the F1 cars listed there are from the V10 era, but they're all listed as being powered by a 3 liter V8 on the site. Now it could be a typo, or it could be that they're using some standard lower output engine across the range so as not to risk the engines the cars were originally built around, and make them more drivable. Which of course would explain the difference in power, and revving Ability.

    Everything regarding how fun or easy to drive these cars are has already been said, but I figured I'd add that the 0-200km/h times listed are all 5 seconds. Now your GSX-R1000, assuming it's a relatively new one will do that in around 8 with a really good launch. So if you don't think you'll find a car that can do it in 3 seconds less to be exciting, that bike must be boring as hell for you in the straight line.
    Anyway, I'd consider the real fun in driving a car like that to be the ridiculous cornering ability, regardless of power.
     
  11. That's interesting, if they have replaced the engines it wouldn't feel like the engine was abruptly cut when it was just starting to make power.

    Even the first ever GSX-R 1000 will do 0-200 km/h in less than 8 seconds, and yes, I don't find it all that exciting to just go fast in a straight line on my GSX-R, it isn't exactly boring, but after a couple years of doing it then you get rather used to the power. It isn't boring obviously, if it was, then I would stop doing it, but it is much more fun when combined with cornering.

    To put it this way, for the some $3100, I can modify my GSX-R and make it a hell of a lot faster in a straight line, e.g. with forced induction, and I can use the money to go to track days, and have a lot of fun.

    I think that a mere ten rounds around a track isn't all that much, especially when it costs $3100.
     
  12. No, that isn't quite the same, the torque curve on the F1 engine tends very toward the high-end, it has very little power in the low RPM-range compared to the more linear power the engine in e.g. a family sedan produces.
     
  13. You are probably an arrogant ass since you assume my opinion is as you've stated it -- even though I haven't said, nor implied I have any opinion as such.
    It is quite offensive to imply someone is an idiot when they aren't.

    You have 2.5 years track experience and can't even push the Formula SAE car all the way? Well that says more about you then it does about me, doesn't it?

    Most people (almost everyone) I've seen who try an F1 simulator with no computer aids (e.g. in rFactor) fail miserably, the first thing they always do is just spin the car around and around and around, and the only reason they are even able to spin it around and around is because the simulator conveniently has an auto-clutch, turn that off, and they can't even get it off the line. Yes, most people are THAT terrible.
    The same people can't even handle a GT simulator like "GTR 2", they experience the exact same problem.

    I'm guessing you are one of those guys who can't drive the F1 car in the simulator either?

    Just because you, and most people, need to start off with something slow before they try out something fast doesn't mean everyone is like that, people are different. Oh, that sounds arrogant? I don't care.

    P.S. before some other IDIOT goes about saying "Oh ohaah hah hahahahah that Pando guy thinks the simulator is like the real thing!", well, I don't think that. The simulator is nothing like the real thing; but it proves an important point in how terrible the everyday guy is in a racing car when he can't even avoid totally #$%#ing up the damn simulator.
     
  14. Do you guys know who you remind me of?

    You remind me of the guys who say "you can't buy a GSX-R 1000 as your first bike! Are you insane?! You'll get killed within a week!"

    You are exactly like those guys, and while that statement might apply to the regular idiots, it doesn't apply to me. Thanks.

    Honestly, tell me, how do you think I managed to survive the GSX-R? Do you think I was an idiot? If I was, then how can it POSSIBLY BE that I'm still alive? Ask yourself that, and then try to extrapolate from that tiny bit of logic and assert it onto how I would act in a race trim F1 car.
     
  15. Have you driven a single seater before?
     
  16. I obviously understand _why_ they do this, but what I was initially curious about is what else they might have done to ruin my fun, if, perhaps there is a certain "standard way" to modify F1 cars for the general public to try out -- e.g. what have they done with the aerodynamics, what have they done with the brakes? What tires do they use? Are they anything at all like a real F1 car?

    The fact they have probably replaced the engine instead of just limiting the RPM on a real engine is actually good news like I tried to state above.
     
  17. I'm 100% sure there isn't one car listed on that site that you'll be able to push to it's limits, so why would you want even more power.
     
  18. Oh ohaah hah hahahahah that Pando guy thinks the simulator is like the real thing!
     
  19. Jesus, why do you think?

    Even if I can't push the car to its limits in the corners I can still enjoy the flat out insane acceleration? There is no such thing as too much power in a race car, but there is obviously the fault of too much throttle application in arbitrary situations.

    Don't bullshit me, wouldn't you like to experience what the acceleration feels like in a *REAL* F1 car and not some pseudo shit with bad tires, bad engine and bad whatever else they haven't been kind enough to list on their website?

    The car is GUARANTEED set up for MASSIVE understeer as well, it is probably set up to be so kind, forgiving and NICE to the driver as it is humanly possible to configure it.

    Of course it has to be like this, after all they do let anyone with the money get into these cars -- I'm merely trying to determine how bad it probably is.
     
  20. You are an idiot. Your posts so far have confirmed this.

    I have experience racing. I understand how difficult and overstimulating it is on track. You do not, because you do not have experience. Nothing done on the street can prepare you for driving on a proper track in really any vehicle, let alone some of the fastest cars on the planet. I know this BECAUSE I HAVE DONE IT. Not because im some cocky, speculative idiot like you.

    Im confident I could outrun you driving ANY street car on ANY track ive been to my very stock STi. I could outrun you on your bike in my car too. Im actually a very advanced driver for my experience and age.

    You have nothing to base any of your knowledge on (outside of your hilarious suggestion of simulators, which mean nothing at all), and I have experience with both closed and open wheel cars ON TRACK, not on my couch on GT4.

    so far your argument is basically this: "You play college football? Well, ive never played football before, but Im going to go try out for the Cowboys. I played basketball on the court with the good players my first time playing, despite me probably not being any good (although I have no idea because it was my first time). I will be good at football because of my limited basketball and madden experience. You have no clue what youre talking about, Mr. College Football."


    lol
     
  21. "Honestly, tell me, how do you think I managed to survive the GSX-R?"

    Darwin was wrong.
     
  22. #23 Pando, Jul 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    I don't like you anymore than you like me, to me, you are the idiot. Your vainglorious failure to even comprehend trivial logic suggests this, as well as many outrageous statements.

    No wait, I'm sorry, what I meant to say was this:

    Of course I'm wrong, what I'm suggesting, that me, myself, just a normal person (compared to you, who are obviously a God) can drive a de-tuned F1 car -- that's literally the definition of madness! I mean, this company [1], they offer this service which anyone can partake in who can pay for it, yet they didn't instantly go bankrupt! No wait, this is a logical contradiction, AAARRRRGHH!! I can't comprehend the logic!

    It is quite hilarious how you feel that just because YOU need a steady and slow learning curve, then everyone else needs that too.

    [1] http://www.se.no/pages/bilene/default.htm
     
  23. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    Oh wait, that wasn't funny.
     
  24. Ok, but jokes aside, phanofmuzik2 just feels the exact same thing a lot of people in communities feel when someone dares attempt something more advanced than what people who possess a lot of experience in something less advanced (within the community) -- when this happens the person who has a lot of experience in something inferior feels jealous and/or threatened in some primal way, and as to assert his dominance and knowledge (to avoid making what he himself is doing seem less impressive or even trivial) feels a need to lecture this other person.

    While I understand why it happens that doesn't really make it _not annoying_.
     

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