Dumpster fire thread

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by HippoCrushEverything, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. For any interesting thoughts, quotes, links, pictures or videos that you might have. History, doctrine, geopolitics or armaments-related, anything goes.
  2. A bunch of future officers got run over by a truck in Jerusalem today.
  3. War... Huh... Yeah!
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing!
    Uhuh... uhuh...!
  4. Except the leaps in technology that sometimes come as a result.
    Veyronman likes this.
  5. so right now, there is a new space race between USA (snoozing on the job here), EU, China, India, etc.

    Who will win and which war will justify the investments into the space program from USA's perspective?
  6. there is nothing that gets humans more excited or more focused than war
    xDRAN0x likes this.
  7. duck hunting
  8. [​IMG]
    German soldiers, 1918

    Russian special forces in Syria, fucking shit up
  9. that video was supposed to start at 45 min, thats where the syria footage is
  10. Kh-22 was quite important for the USSR. During the early 60's, strategic bombers were deemed by Kruschev as obsolete relics giving way to the ballistic missile era. His view of strategic nuclear warfare, although completely inaccurate at the time, and given that the Soviets had some real problems with propellants and missile accuracy, did liberate quite a few bears and badgers (Tu-95 and Tu-16) to other uses.

    The idea back then was to take out US carrier groups with multiple missiles fired from land-based strategic bombers, some carrying a megaton warhead, the conventional ones acting as decoys.

    Under Armiral Gorshkov, the VMF (Soviet Navy) started to (re)build its surface fleet but the land-based bombers in AVMF (Soviet Naval Aviation) remained. They operated from land bases in parallel with the VVS (Soviet Air Force. They had several, it's complicated), with air wings and pilots getting reassigned back and forth. Due to this it's hard to come up with accurate numbers but it's no secret that the Soviets wielded a substantial force of land-based aircraft intended to counter the US Navy in the initial stages of war. Wikipedia does have a list of AVMF inventory in 1990 but it's either woefully inaccurate or means that aircraft that used to be assigned to somewhere in 1988 were assigned to somewhere else in 1990.

    Development of anti-ship missiles/torpedos was of crucial importance in the Soviet Navy, often moreso than the platform itself. Sometimes it's plainly visible that a ship/aircraft was designed around the missile and not the other way around. AIM-54 and F-111B/F-14 combo is the first American example that comes to mind. OKBs 1,2 and 52, and the NIIs that later became TsNIIMash developed a whole bunch of propellants, motors, navigation systems, homing devices, countermeasures and warheads, some of which were quite advanced.

    In general, the WW2 German Navy is a good analogue to the mid/late Cold War Soviet Navy. As far as the vessels go, submarines, fast and heavily armed battlecruiser-type ships were a priority. When you have 1/10th of the adversary's total fleet tonnage, you need to find some creative ways to sink their ships. The Soviets did find several.


    CitroenSM, SEABEE and PGN1 like this.
  11. SuperSonic should make a video.
  12. have you read red storm rising
    its some good clancy cold war trash but a cool depiction of all out war
    or it was when i was 12 and what is this
  13. The Intercept published a story about alleged war crimes by the US Navy's DevGru (A.K.A. SEAL Team 6) was just a few days ago, based on more than two years of investigation (apparently). It is a well written, well-sourced, and thorough read. The story itself is very long, so you might want to save it for when you have some free time. There are a few shorter, more digestible summaries out there also. The accusations range from unjustified killings, the mutilation of corpses (including that of Bin Laden, which the CIA expressly ordered against in order to aid identification), and war profiteering. Although the epicenter of the abuses appears to be in Afghanistan, it was not isolated geographically to a few units, but spread out to include Iraq, anti-piracy operations near Somalia, and anywhere the elite unit seemed to operate.

    One thing that struck me, beyond the awful actions themselves, is how influenced several of the operators were by a specific novel, Devil’s Guard, where elite ex-Nazi commandos (hiding under assumed aliases in the French Foreign Legion) wage a warpath in Vietnam. It almost reminded me of another account of a novel taking over the thinking of huge parts of the military, although stories about Ghost Fleet dominating the thinking of top Navy brass was much more flattering.

    We give our special forces, throughout Europe and North America, a huge amount of independence to operate outside of the normal military procedure, when the nature of their missions or their location or enemy makes the standard doctrine a liability. Then we insulate them with the cloak of 'classified', and send them on missions where the only possible witness to a crime would be their fellow enlisted operators. Enlisted preserves, a vast amount of leadership and control is divested to NCOs, and information withheld from the ring knockers that have the power to reel in behavior (the Intercept story mentions one meeting, that was convened to address a possible war crime conducted by an operator the previous day, that included nearly forty servicemen and not a single officer). It seems that this operational freedom is at once both their entire mission mandate and an incredible liability for abuse.
  14. Also, I can't be the only one really frustrated at inability to edit out minor typos after 10 minutes.
    DIGGS likes this.
  15. dont worry about it
    great post
    it seems like primitive warfare. i guess we shouldnt be shocked, but we are taught to hold these guys up as noble war heros
    these guys basically have no equal or oversight on the battlefield and they need to be at least a little bit sociopathic to be good at their jobs
    unjustified killings is troubling though. war is a shitty thing
  16. I've mentioned this a few times in the your input is needed thread. Drives me crazy.
  17. I did read "Hunt for the Red October" and "The Bear and the Dragon", didn't like either of those. Too much clumsy personal drama, too little military research to back up any combat scenarios imo.

    I've read only two of his books but I'm going to assume that every single one of them ends by 'Murica coming to the rescue and saving everyone. Of course it's the only possible course of events in a world, that outside of USA#1 is inhabited by incompetent subhuman terrorists and silly, snooty European baguettes.

    Here's the plot and the extent of military insight provided by any Tom Clancy book ever, all in a compact package:

    PGN1 and ETB4U like this.
  18. I like the public library system here. I clicked a button and this book will be delivered to the closest library (about 70 meters away) tomorrow for free.

  19. haha i was thinking about reading it too
    red storm rising is better than either of those two because its just a war

    tank war, killing SAMs, anti ship stuff
    im sure there is better books about all out coldwar warfare but i liked that one

    btw im reading/listening to Sapiens and i love it. right up my alley have you read the sequel?
  20. Try this one:

    Red Thrust: Attack on the Central Front, Soviet Tactics and Capabilities in the 1990s by Steven Zaloga.

    What's sapiens? Some sort of podcast? If yes, I'm interested.
  21. SEABEE likes this.
  22. whoa very cool
    such surface area, nice ramp.
    why two towers?

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