Ethanol as alternative fuel

Discussion in 'American Cars' started by mahrens34, Sep 15, 2004.

  1. hey guys, use to be a memeber here but my accont got closed for inactivity. just wondering if anyone had any good sites for info related to ethanol as an alternative fuel. i have to do a paper on it for analytical chemistry. any help would be nice. thanks
     
  2. Ive been looking for them. It sounds interesting. We (US) make around 9 billion bushels of corn a year. It takes about 3 billion for corn. Ethanol is only good. No pollution and motortrend or motorweek said all of the tested ethanol cars had better or equal perfromance.
     
  3. Except its usually used as a gasoline additive, which means there will be some pollution, but not as much, and I believe you get slightly better fuel economy. Its typically mixed 15/85 with gas (a mixture that has the creative name of E85). I'm pretty sure you can run it in your car with only slight modification of compression, I can't remember (and I just did a research project on it last year).
     
  4. True. But im sure it can be added to either another liquid like peanut or cooking oil. Or even be used on its own.
     
  5. you're backwards. it has less emissions, and slightly worse gas mileage.

    they sell E85 ethanol around here, cars like the flex fuel taurus and ranger use it, and i think you can upgrade just about any FI vehicle to take it.
     
  6. combustion of ethanol produces around 1/4 of the energy that petrol does.

    its not very efficient.
     
  7. thanks for the info guys, but does anyone have any goods sites?
     
  8. could be wrong hear but i think it has a mch lower octane rating to fuel so it can be dangerous in large amounts in cars that arent designed for it.
    and it also is quite bad for the environment to produce because it requires burning of the crop to produce so the benefits are questionable.
     
  9. #9 LT5 350, Sep 17, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    www.afdc.doe.gov
    Alternative Fuels Data Center. (Department of Energy). They have lots of great info and links for all sorts of gas alternatives.
     
  10. That is incorrect, The ethanol molecule is so much smaller, there is less combustible energy per L than in gasoline. However, while it has less energy in it, it burns cleaner and more of that energy gets converted into kenetic energy as a percentage than gasoline. The Net power is less, but the efficiency is more. Ethanol also needs different conditions for maximum gain which is why standard engines, designed to combust heavier gasoline, do not burn it that well. In ethanol specific engines, they are near equal.
     
  11. That is incorrect, The ethanol molecule is so much smaller, there is less combustible energy per L than in gasoline. However, while it has less energy in it, it burns cleaner and more of that energy gets converted into kenetic energy as a percentage than gasoline. The Net power is less, but the efficiency is more. Ethanol also needs different conditions for maximum gain which is why standard engines, designed to combust heavier gasoline, do not burn it that well. In ethanol specific engines, they are near equal.

    Some more information. Ethanol gets its better power in the fact that it burns easier but burns alot cooler.
    <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/angry.gif"></A>dvantages

    1. faster burn so less burning in the exhaust (which most gas powered cars do)
    2. Cooler temperatures, much longer engine and oil life. Virtually infinite is well looked after.
    3. Because ethanol is an individual pure substance, there is no sulphur or other pollutants. No acid rain.
    4. Ethanol being small also burns more complete, no large residual molecules for soot.
    5. Technically it is zero emissions. When combusted, the ethanol becomes CO2 and H2O. But to get the ethanol, plants need to absorb CO2 and H20 to make the sugars that ethanol is refined from. Since it is bacteria that does the refining, there is virtually a 0 imput of energy needed to make it. A beer refinery has far less emissions and energy usage than an oil refinery because of the immense energy needed to distill crude oil. An Ethanol refinery is even more efficient than a beer distillery since it does not need to worry about flavour and colour. They just ferment and distill. easy.


    In my personal opinion, I think that ethanol, combined with electric drive hybrid cars (electric drive motors powered by an ethanol generator), is the best direction for the future of automotive. Solar cars, hydrogen and electric only are good for the simple minded who do not comprehend the big picture of where the energy comes from (hydrogen and electric). Solar, there is just not enough energy that can be received from the sun to adequately meet transportation needs.
     
  12. wow I didnt know that. I think instead of an electric motor they could mix it with that garbage fule or possibly alcohol. Does alcohol pollute?
     
  13. Why not stick with converting to hydrogen?
     
  14. Why not stick with converting to hydrogen?
     
  15. What about methanol?

    Does methanol suck?

    And would ethanol make a bad-ass fuel for let's say... a supercar?
     
  16. E85 works great in cars that are designed for it like Ford's Flex Fuel Vehicles. It works like crap when you try to water petro based gas down with it. Which from what I understand happens in Australia.
     
  17. ok thanks for correcting me.
     
  18. do you realize how much oil burning energy it takes right now to make hydrogen fuel? we put a lot more in than we can get out right now.
     
  19. According to states like Kalifornia the power it takes to generate the power to fuel your car doesn't count...
     
  20. Ethanol is easily made without problems just by fermenting. Problem with methanol is that it vaporizes alot easier and is alot more toxic. A methanol spill wouldn't be nice to the environment. Ethanol wouldn't really do much except get the earthworms drunk. If the engine is set up for ethanol, it would be awesome since the cooler burning temperatures would allow for better oils for higher RPMs, more fuel and compression as well meaning wicked top ends. We just need somebody to make an engine that can fully maximize ethanols potential.
     
  21. Alcohol, hardly at all. It is readily water soluble and so can be diluted in case of a spill with just normal water. Combustion only releases CO2 and H20 with only CO2 and whatever powers the distillery as waste in the production process. By electric motors, I mean you have an ethanol powered generator which powers electric drive wheels. This has the advantage of alot less power loss since no transmission or drivetrain to sap power. Also, because it is a generator, it only spins fast enough to provide the power needed for the electric motor for maximum efficiency.

    Lol, in case any of you didn't notice, I am an avid fanatic on ethanol hybrid cars. I have been working on designs for one for a couple of years now <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/tongue.gif"></A>

    The reason that I said a generator powered instead of the setup that things like prius use is due to batteries. Imagine if every car in the world had the massive insight/prius battery core. That is alot of toxic metal and halides driving around that needs to be replace every several years, I don't want all that in my city...
     
  22. Alcohol, hardly at all. It is readily water soluble and so can be diluted in case of a spill with just normal water. Combustion only releases CO2 and H20 with only CO2 and whatever powers the distillery as waste in the production process. By electric motors, I mean you have an ethanol powered generator which powers electric drive wheels. This has the advantage of alot less power loss since no transmission or drivetrain to sap power. Also, because it is a generator, it only spins fast enough to provide the power needed for the electric motor for maximum efficiency.

    Lol, in case any of you didn't notice, I am an avid fanatic on ethanol hybrid cars. I have been working on designs for one for a couple of years now <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/tongue.gif"></A>

    The reason that I said a generator powered instead of the setup that things like prius use is due to batteries. Imagine if every car in the world had the massive insight/prius battery core. That is alot of toxic metal and halides driving around that needs to be replace every several years, I don't want all that in my city...
     
  23. Alcohol, hardly at all. It is readily water soluble and so can be diluted in case of a spill with just normal water. Combustion only releases CO2 and H20 with only CO2 and whatever powers the distillery as waste in the production process. By electric motors, I mean you have an ethanol powered generator which powers electric drive wheels. This has the advantage of alot less power loss since no transmission or drivetrain to sap power. Also, because it is a generator, it only spins fast enough to provide the power needed for the electric motor for maximum efficiency.

    Lol, in case any of you didn't notice, I am an avid fanatic on ethanol hybrid cars. I have been working on designs for one for a couple of years now <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/tongue.gif"></A>

    The reason that I said a generator powered instead of the setup that things like prius use is due to batteries. Imagine if every car in the world had the massive insight/prius battery core. That is alot of toxic metal and halides driving around that needs to be replace every several years, I don't want all that in my city...
     
  24. Alcohol, hardly at all. It is readily water soluble and so can be diluted in case of a spill with just normal water. Combustion only releases CO2 and H20 with only CO2 and whatever powers the distillery as waste in the production process. By electric motors, I mean you have an ethanol powered generator which powers electric drive wheels. This has the advantage of alot less power loss since no transmission or drivetrain to sap power. Also, because it is a generator, it only spins fast enough to provide the power needed for the electric motor for maximum efficiency.

    Lol, in case any of you didn't notice, I am an avid fanatic on ethanol hybrid cars. I have been working on designs for one for a couple of years now <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/tongue.gif"></A>

    The reason that I said a generator powered instead of the setup that things like prius use is due to batteries. Imagine if every car in the world had the massive insight/prius battery core. That is alot of toxic metal and halides driving around that needs to be replace every several years, I don't want all that in my city...
     
  25. Alcohol, hardly at all. It is readily water soluble and so can be diluted in case of a spill with just normal water. Combustion only releases CO2 and H20 with only CO2 and whatever powers the distillery as waste in the production process. By electric motors, I mean you have an ethanol powered generator which powers electric drive wheels. This has the advantage of alot less power loss since no transmission or drivetrain to sap power. Also, because it is a generator, it only spins fast enough to provide the power needed for the electric motor for maximum efficiency.

    Lol, in case any of you didn't notice, I am an avid fanatic on ethanol hybrid cars. I have been working on designs for one for a couple of years now <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/tongue.gif"></A>

    The reason that I said a generator powered instead of the setup that things like prius use is due to batteries. Imagine if every car in the world had the massive insight/prius battery core. That is alot of toxic metal and halides driving around that needs to be replace every several years, I don't want all that in my city...
     

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