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Discussion in 'European Cars' started by Tipo F130A, Feb 14, 2011.
pretty much this. i love the 458. ferraristas can suck my balls.
one thing i don't understand is: how does a small company like mclaren beats ferrari, which is a rather large company?
its not exactly small.
also, define: "beats"
beating it performance wise. i mean, lamborghini and porsche can't seem to beat the 458 and the mp4 can.
they are one of the most famous teams in formula 1, and aside from the F1, i believe that murray's team designed most of the SLR too. it's not 6 guys on an industrial estate.
I would much rather have a speedy kiwi on my car than a prancing horse.
On the 458 it looks like the hood/bonnet does not fit.
Car and Driver and Road and Track drives. Odd thing, reading the Car and Driver review you'd get the impression that the car is totally silent.
"Blipping the throttle in neutral conjures no Formula 1 starting-grid fantasies. This V-8 is soft-spoken, polite to a fault. Its initial impression is unimpressive."
"Without rivaling the shriek of a Ferrari V-8 or the gusto of a Lamborghini V-10, the MP4 rouses the hoofbeat of 593 horses keen on crashing the corral gate."
Funny enough this is totally at odds with their own video review of the car, in which you can hear how loud and good sounding it is. After reading that Chris Harris article it kind of makes you wonder about Ferrri's reach when it comes to reviewers.
because youre the typical idiot ferrari fanboy. oh sweet put a prancing horse on a peice of shit ya ill buy that
you drive a mazda miata
458 is not a piece of shit
neither is this
this doesn't really do much for me, i guess i know how you LF-A haters feel
If you are talking only of objective performance...same day test results from Auto Motor und Sport:
0-300 km/h times:
31,3 s - Porsche 911 GT2 RS
34,0 s - Ferrari 458 Italia
Handling-track Nardo (2,8 km):
1.11,5 min - GT2 RS
1.12,9 min - 458 Italia
IMO, the true measure of success, if you really have to compare them, will be in sales. McLaren are targeting something like 1000 MP4's per year. If they reach that figure, they will still only be 1/3-1/2 the sales volume of the 458. So in that sense, McLaren doesn't beat Ferrari.
Some follow-up thoughts by Chris Harris:
"February 14, 2011 2:31 PM | Posted By: Monkey Harris
Cold, clinical, unemotional.
You’re going to hear and read these words used a lot in association with the new McLaren MP4-12C. This is not a car that wears its heart anywhere near its sleeve: it’s a towering piece of engineering that requires time and a multitude of conditions to reveal the complexities of its brilliance. In many ways then, it is the anti-supercar, because a supercar by definition is a binary creature; something that exists on a solitary, self-indulgent, look-at-the-bulge-in-my-trousers level.
Is the Macca better than a 458? I suppose technically it does things the Ferrari cannot do – it offers a blend of ride and handling never before witnessed in this type of car. It is also faster than the Ferrari – in fact even though I was stunned by the chassis’ spread of abilities, I was even more shocked by just how bloody fast it was. Hitting 124mph in 8.9sec from rest makes a travesty of the supposed opposition. But that doesn’t make it the greater car of the two, and I for one am not willing to be drawn much further into that discussion until I’ve driven both on the same road, the same track and had a chance to digest the results.
Understandably, everyone wants to know the outcome of 458 v Macca, but for me there’s an even more interesting story emerging here: one that deconstructs the role of this type of car. Once we’ve decided which one wins the group test, the internet-scuffles have abated and I’m choking on an MX-5 what I want to know is how people propose to use cars like the MP4-12C and 458. I think they question the nature of the ‘occasional’ sports car because they’re so damn good at being used all-the-time. Well, certainly the McLaren is.
The progression of the super-sports-car in recent years has been startling. Three years ago the benchmark mid-engined toy was a Ferrari 430 -1450kg of aluminium monocoque with 483bhp, two-stage dampers and a pretty ropey robotised paddle-shifter. The MP4-12C has 592bhp, its carbon tub contributes to a weight of 1336kg and it has a double-clutch gearbox. Its performance potential is in a different reality to the 430. Never forget that the Ferrari Daytona was launched in 1968, yet in 1980 it was still one of the fastest cars in the world. In other words, right now we’re seeing unprecedented advances in vehicle performance.
That the McLaren is an entirely useable everyday car is both undeniable and testament to the skill of the engineers behind it – but is it what this type of car should be? If you spend the week in an Audi A8, in your weekend toy do you want to change gear yourself or pull a paddle? You know what I’m getting at here – to me it feels like we’re right at the tipping-point in the driver/machine relationship. The current prerogative is very much engineering-lead; the language of communication is numerical, everything is faster, grippier, better. But where does the driver fit-in? Where does this development process take us?
It’s fascinating to watch the developing Ferrari/McLaren rivalry, it’s a privilege to drive these cars, but I for one hope that the driver will always be considered as something more than simply the operator of a set of electronic systems - because driving is the thing that draws us into this strange world of car-lust in the first place. As a sports-car manufacturer, if you forget that, you become the purveyor of three-dimensional arcade games which offer the potential for life-changing bills.
So I can’t tell you if the Macca beats the 458, but I can tell you that, great though they both are - sitting here right now - I suspect I would rather have an F40 than either."
I have a feeling that Ferrari has become prety much like the automotive version of "Apple". I mean, it's like when they make their "mainstream" products, they cut back and make a good product but not the best they can do, so they can escalate with the next version of their car and keep selling to the fanboys and the people that "need" to have the "latest" fashion item.
Porsche does the same or worse, but since they'd been doing it since like forever, openly and unashamedly, the people got used to it and accept it.
Yep. It's called doing business and that is pretty much what it's all about for a company isn't it?
Thank you for a sensible post. A thank you for reminding the Kia Mp4-12 fanboys that the "458 Scuderia" is comming up
Doesn't sound very PASSIONATE to me...
If your company is selling cellphones and you don't put a radio in your new product, even tough every other cheap cellphone has one, because you know you can get away with it and offer it on your next model, that's very GAY.
Ferrari wasn't like this.
No that is very clever
so is a faster version of this
well to be fair the ferrari is the newest of the bunch and now the mclaren is even newer.
Nah thats pretty weak, it pretty much proves that they are overrated
Top Gear J Clarkson: "beyond ANYTHING else" ....
5th Gear, Jason Plato: "This is, and I'm not kidding you, the best car I have ever driven"....
What Car? Magazine: Best Performance Car 2011
Daily Telegraph Motor: Car of the Year
CAR Magazine: Performance Car of the Year
Fifth Gear: Fast Car of the Year
Top Gear: Car of the Year 2010
Top Gear: Supercar of the Year 2010
MSN Cars: Car if the Year
Auto Express: Performance Car of the Year
Top Gear China: Super Sports Car of the Year
Car Middle East:Car of the Year 2010
Just to mention a few .....But of course you know better....
Can we get a review from a real automotive magazine. None of these bribed sub-par toilet publications.
what's a real auto magazine then?