FWD vs. AWD

Discussion in '1980 Styling Garage Spezialkarosserien M1' started by Tyler, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    The Talon TSI has all wheel drive. So does the eclipse GSX. The eclipse GST has FWD (front wheel drive) not FOUR WHEEL DRIVE.
     
  2. I'm just wondering if somebody could help me out here. In one post about this car somebody said that the Talon TSi had AWD, and the Eclipse GSX had FWD. Could somebody clarify the difference between all wheel drive and four wheel drive? Thanks a lot<!-- Signature -->
     
  3. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    Hey !
    An All Wheel Drive is a type where you cannot turn off front or rear wheels. And 4 wheel drive is something that most of the SUV's have. The cars with this type of drive train have a little shifter next to the transmission shifter and you can turn on or off front ot rear wheels @ any time !
    i hope this will help you !!<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    FWD stands for front wheel drive. four wheel drive is abbreviated 4WD.<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    Eclipse GSX is AWD, so is the Talon TSi

    Eclipse GST is FWD, I think all other Talons besides the TSi are FWD too.

    Good job...<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    Talon TSi is AWD, but there is also a Talon TSi that is FWD. I know this because my cousin had one of them. <!-- Signature -->
     
  7. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    The talon was originally introduced with FWD. AWD was later added as an option. However, the AWD system they developed was pootz because it was based on the main drive shafts at the front rather than the rear like most AWD drive systems.
     
  8. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    the talon actualy came out in 89'
    look it up if u dont believe me<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    Well in Canada all TSi's are AWD and same with the Eclipse's which would make them the GSX models. In the States there is an option for FWD only but the TSi is still called the TSi, whereas the Eclipse FWD is the GST and the AWD is the GSX.

    Now some people clame that the FWD is faster and yes theoretically it should be from a rolling start, but not off the line. The jump that an AWD has off the line is WAY to huge for a FWD to catch up. When my TSi AWD was stock the I did get a chance to race a couple FWD's that were around and not one could even touch me...

    My car is no longer stock so that means they would be that more dead...
     
  10. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    HEH.. I love AWD


    Plymouth Laser RS AWD
    1/4 mile: 11.94 @ 124mph
    Automatic Tranny too
     
  11. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    FWD for the most part stands for Front...Wheel...Drive not Four wheel drive. AWD does a 40% power or less to the front and 60% or more to the back. When a tire doesn't grip power is shifted to the others. Four Wheel Drive (not ususally on cars) does a 50% to 50% and no traction control like AWD. Its all a mater of choice. <!-- Signature -->
     
  12. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    The AWD DSMs are 50% front and 50% rear power distrabution.<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    The Eagle Talon and the Eclipse are the same car, madein the same factory with the same drivetrains, only different embles and slightly different bodies.

    eclipse :
    RS: base bodel
    GS: fully loaded base model
    GST: front wheel drive TURBO
    GSX: all wheel drive turbo

    talon:
    ESI: same as RS or GS
    TSI: can be either GST or GSX

    Some Talon TSIs are AWD, it does not matter what year it is, that had no play in whether or not it was AWD.<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    oh i forgot to mention, the AWD is better for off the line and 1/4 miles, the FWD has better Top end, and is the better top speed highway racer.<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    AWD: All Wheel Drive can vary depending on what car manufacturer is producing it, but the basic idea is that it is an adapted sort of 4WD suited better to real world driving conditions. AWD can be divided up among the 4 tires any way that a manufacturer desires. However, most are 50/50 between the front and back wheels whith a viscous coupling between each wheel set that divides the power as it is needed between the left and right side of the car. It does this either by a physcial link or a electronic computer link both doing essentially the same thing: reading torque levels; basically, the wheel with the higher torque level gets more power. The reason 4WD is not used on most cars is that it doesn't last very long when used on dry pavement. It also can be very difficult for most drivers to control a car or truck with 4WD on dry pavement, the resulting sensation is a very squirrely feel to the handling.

    I won't explain how single drive vehicles work becuase it's pretty simple and i would assume that anybody who is comming to supercars.net would understand the basics of how a single wheel drive car works.

    As far as which performs better; AWD or FWD? It really depends on what the driving conditions you are driving in are. As far as racing goes, AWD is not good for racing that is done with very little tight high speed turns (there is a reason that NASCAR doesn't use AWD). AWD also tends to chew up more gasoline than a FWD car. AWD drive is better in 1/4 mile races becuase it there is usually zero wheel spin at the jump. However, if the quarter mile race were to be extended to something longer, a FWD drive car would most likely catch up and pass the AWD car becuase single wheel driver cars usually have higher top speeds (this is of course assuming that the two cars in question have equal perfomance characteristics, w/the only difference being AWD or lack there of). Personally, i would choose AWD becuase it is more practical for the real world (especially becuase i live in northern wisconsin). Most people don't spend the majority of their time driving at speeds over 100 mph, so the top speed factor isn't really an issue. Also, if it is snowing or raining, the AWD car will have better traction and handling, allowing you to drive faster while in better control than a single wheel drive car. Having owned a FWD drive car (1992 Dodge Shadow... got me from point A to B... most of the time) an now i own a AWD car (Subaru Impreza Outback Sport)... i would choose the AWD car over a FWD car in a second. Simply becuase of it's superior all weather handling characteristics.

    * if you disagree with me or have a point that might contradict what i said, please post it CONSTRUCTIVELY (this means no swearing or generally being an asshole... afterall, it's just a car... don't get so worked up about something so tiny in the grand scheme of things). Thanks.
     
  16. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    word... wrx kicks ass 240hp...?
     
  17. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    yes, word indeed... the WRX is 227 bhp, the WRX STi is around 280 bhp (possibly more). when the STi comes to the states the bhp level should be somewhat reduced compared to the STi currently available everywhere else due to strict US emission standards. I imagine when it does get to the states the bhp level will be somewhate higher than the lancer evo 7 in an effort for subaru to one up mitsubishi... but that's just a guess.
     
  18. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    AWD: All Wheel Drive can vary depending on what car manufacturer is producing it, but the basic idea is that it is an adapted sort of 4WD suited better to real world driving conditions. AWD can be divided up among the 4 tires any way that a manufacturer desires. However, most are 50/50 between the front and back wheels whith a viscous coupling between each wheel set that divides the power as it is needed between the left and right side of the car.

    ***********Actually, the viscous coupling in an AWD car is between the front and rear sides of the car. It is uncommon to find a viscous coupling used as a normal rear\front differential, but not unheard of. Many AWD people choose to replace their viscous couplings with different differentials (myself included). Several car companies used various systems of interconnecting clutches, which allowes for the electronic control of power transfer, isntead of a merely reflexive one. Skylines and Porsches use systems like this***************

    It does this either by a physcial link or a electronic computer link both doing essentially the same thing: reading torque levels; basically, the wheel with the higher torque level gets more power.

    ************* That's true of a few cars, but most AWD cars are, as mentioned, viscous coupling based. Viscous couplings don't allow for much electronic intervention, they're a rather simple device, if effective. Basically, a unit is filled with a fluid of a special viscouscity, with two intermediate plates (or clutches). When the front or rear set of wheels are spinning fast enough, the corresponding plate inside the coupling will spin also. This heats the fluid, causing it to expand predictably, until the plates are forced together. The key to the system is that the plates are allowed to slip, depending on the specific temperature of the unit. This allowes for the front and rear of the car's wheels to rotate independantly of the other set. So the more one plate spins, the hotter the fluid, the more locked the plates are, and more power is thus transferred. ***************

    The reason 4WD is not used on most cars is that it doesn't last very long when used on dry pavement. It also can be very difficult for most drivers to control a car or truck with 4WD on dry pavement, the resulting sensation is a very squirrely feel to the handling.

    *************** I figured I'd elaborate on this. Locked up 4X4 systems, like are on trucks, don't allow the front or rear sides of the vehicle's wheels to rotate independantly. The rear wheels must spin at the exact same average speed as the front wheels, even if it is divided between the two front and two rear wheels respectively. This is alittle reminiscent of locked differentials on drag cars. Around a turn, on these drag cars (RWD, mind you), the wheels have to rotate at different speeds. One wheel must rotate faster than the other because it covers a wider angle of movement. When the differential is locked, one wheel will spin, because though it dosn't need operate as fast as the wheel on the other side, it is forced to go at the same speed. These arn't relevant issues to the drag cars they're used in. Many Talons, for instance, have their center differential replaced with a much stronger locked up one. Viscous couplings also have a few unrelated issues. If your vehicle is towed, for instance, and two wheels roll on the ground (as opposed to the entire car mounted off the road), those two wheels will spin their plate in the viscous coupling unit. The front two wheels will be locked in place and won't be able to turn, so the corresponding plate can't lock into the rear wheel's plate. The one moving will rub against the one staying still until the two plates' surfaces are destroyed. *****************


    I won't explain how single drive vehicles work becuase it's pretty simple and i would assume that anybody who is comming to supercars.net would understand the basics of how a single wheel drive car works.

    As far as which performs better; AWD or FWD? It really depends on what the driving conditions you are driving in are. As far as racing goes, AWD is not good for racing that is done with very little tight high speed turns (there is a reason that NASCAR doesn't use AWD). AWD also tends to chew up more gasoline than a FWD car. AWD drive is better in 1/4 mile races becuase it there is usually zero wheel spin at the jump. However, if the quarter mile race were to be extended to something longer, a FWD drive car would most likely catch up and pass the AWD car becuase single wheel driver cars usually have higher top speeds (this is of course assuming that the two cars in question have equal perfomance characteristics, w/the only difference being AWD or lack there of).

    ************** The issue of drivetrain drag differences in AWD and any other system is notable, but people seem to act as if front or rear wheel drive cars don't have speed differences between their wheels. Remember, any person with any type of positrac will always be generating at least some speed-stealing drag on one wheel. If you don't have a positrac, then you're not driving a fast vehicle, period. What *is* better, FWD or AWD? It matters souly on your needs. But I can say that in the performance world, FWD isn't and will never be competetive. RWD and AWD are comepetetive with each other, but FWD was not ever intended for any form of racing. FWD is intended for low costs and better fuel efficency. I'm sure someone will note a 9 second FWD drag car (nevermind that we've all seen 9 second street legal RWD and AWD cars before), but we'll always be able to bring up the 5 second RWD top fuelers and what not, or the 6 second Mustang outlaws. In drag racing, I find that most prefer RWD. There's a notable power increase at the rear wheels, a decreased curb weight, and, well, at the point your car is pulling wheelies, the front wheels don't count for much. Most AWD cars can fit 8 inch wide wheels, while many RWD cars can fit 12 inch wide wheels (I'm excluding tubbing from the topic...). Now, the overall accelerable surface patch of the AWD car exceeds the RWD car's, remember that most the weight will shift off of those front wheels onto the rear ones, and the faster the car, the more the weight transfer. The harder you accelerate, the more your weight distribution will effectively be pushed to the rear of the car and off of the front wheels. Because of this, the surface patch of the RWD car becomes exponentially more effective than the AWD car's. This is also the reason that FWD isn't effective in the faster classes of cars. The faster your car will accelerate, the more weight will shift onto the back of the car, and off of the front tires, the drive tires in this case. This means that the faster the car is, the traction will exponentionally decrease. The handling of FWD cars is also hurt because of how easy it becomes to spin the front wheels, not to mention a FWD car's usual heavy weight bias imbalance in high speed corning. Generally, this will lead to an inability to oversteer, in the best case scenario, and in the worst, heavy understeer. Understeer isn't a bad thing, and most prefer it to oversteer in the daily drivers because it's so hard to lose control of. Still, most race drivers like cars that can be forced to oversteer (actually, this is an interesting AWD debate in itself, because AWD on its own can lead to at least mild understeer in your average viscous coupling based car) because it allowes them to exit a turn easier. Amateurs will likely be scared by oversteer, however, because it is very easy to let it get out of hand (despite how much fun it can be). Some FWDers have very notable understeer, and it causes them to lose their ability to steer in a high speed corner. It's a relatively safe way to lose control of your auto, and you probably won't lose control, spin in a circle and into the wall like a RWD car might, but you'll still lose the race for having to slow down so much before every turn so you can steer during it (at least the sharp turns). But, it's unfair to use this in the AWD vs FWD (I'm talking about RWD vs FWD here) because *most* AWD cars suffer from similar understeer problems. Not as signifigant, obviously, but they're still there. I'm referring to viscous coupling based systems, as most Skyline GTRs or AWD 911s have no trouble oversteering on demand. The obvious benefits of AWD are in street cars. In realistic street-performance settings, I personally believe AWD will allow for greater traction abilities than any street legal RWD system. I don't believe this is true for race cars, but on the street, AWD has the advantage. I prefer RWD for most road courses and dragstrip launches, but on the street, I like AWD best of all. Of course, in weather the benefits are also obvious. *****************

    Personally, i would choose AWD becuase it is more practical for the real world (especially becuase i live in northern wisconsin). Most people don't spend the majority of their time driving at speeds over 100 mph, so the top speed factor isn't really an issue. Also, if it is snowing or raining, the AWD car will have better traction and handling, allowing you to drive faster while in better control than a single wheel drive car. Having owned a FWD drive car (1992 Dodge Shadow... got me from point A to B... most of the time) an now i own a AWD car (Subaru Impreza Outback Sport)... i would choose the AWD car over a FWD car in a second. Simply becuase of it's superior all weather handling characteristics.

    * if you disagree with me or have a point that might contradict what i said, please post it CONSTRUCTIVELY (this means no swearing or generally being an asshole... afterall, it's just a car... don't get so worked up about something so tiny in the grand scheme of things). Thanks.
     
  19. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    I love AWD for raceing, but if you like burning out fwd or rwd is what you need<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    I've seen some wicked awd burnouts!
     
  21. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SubaruLover</i>
    <b>yes, word indeed... the WRX is 227 bhp, the WRX STi is around 280 bhp (possibly more). when the STi comes to the states the bhp level should be somewhat reduced compared to the STi currently available everywhere else due to strict US emission standards. I imagine when it does get to the states the bhp level will be somewhate higher than the lancer evo 7 in an effort for subaru to one up mitsubishi... but that's just a guess.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Unfortunately that is only your opinion that the Sti will have more power than the EVO7. I doubt it myself because the current Lancer EVO 7 is superior to the WRX Sti from the manufacturer (not talking WRC) however I know a guy that has a Chrisma GT that he uses for SCCA rally and he beats up on just about everyone, maybe that is cause he was SCCA rally driver of the year last year...

    By the way, I will be impressed if you can tell me what a Chrisma GT is...well sorta impressed as it is kinda obvious.
     
  22. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    drive train have a little shifter next to the transmission shifter and you can turn on or off <!-- Signature -->
     
  23. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    wtf kinda post? r u crazy this piece of shiyt wont be able to beat a honda i give it props for at least stopping production and letting that gay eclipse do tha work
     
  24. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from WakkaWu</i>
    <b>wtf kinda post? r u crazy this piece of shiyt wont be able to beat a honda i give it props for at least stopping production and letting that gay eclipse do tha work</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->


    Where did that come from???<!-- Signature -->
     
  25. Re: FWD vs. AWD

    this is one of the cars id like to pee on
     

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