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Discussion in 'Asian Forums' started by mafalda, Sep 15, 2009.
fast car is fast
In both instances a different driver was used. The 7:26 time was achieved by Toshio Suzuki, the lead test driver of the GT-R. Suzuki has tons of hours behind the wheel of the GT-R. The 7:38 time was achieved by Horst von Saurma, and he only had 5 laps (i think) to adapt to the car. HvS time was achieved on a partially wet track with the bridgestone tires, instead of the dunlop tires used by Suzuki. Given these circumstances, what most likely happened was that HvS had and exit speed out of corners slower than Suzuki. This alone is more than enough to explain the difference, instead of one car having more power than the other.
That video is of Suzuki in both cars. HvS's GT-R also had Dunlops. But this is where our mis-informed conspiracy theorist goes wrong...
F40 Le Mans:
That 7:38 video of Suzuki is when he was in an S1 GT-R with Bridgestones. The 7:26 video is when he's driving the S2 GT-R on Dunlops. S2 car had EU-spec (2010 US-spec) revisions to ECU (and +5bhp), suspension, and transmission and engine mounts. What Vladislaus says is correct: The rpm difference can be due to a better drive coming out of the final corner, which with the S2 revisions, the GT-R *should* be faster. Even though both tires have the same outer diameter, TireRack shows a slightly different revolutions-per-mile difference between them. Compound the difference again for different conditions, and maybe one tire maintains its OD with heat better than the other.
And jesus frickin' christ. You're going to quibble about 150-200 rpm on a goddamn 2000+ meter long straight?? How do you know there wasn't a 10 kph tailwind in one test? How do you know there wasn't a 10 kph headwind in the other?
Take a look at Jim Mero in the ZR1 below. He's coming up Doettinger Hoehe. At 7:01.8, he's at 5250 rpm. 1.6 seconds later, with wide open throttle in this 640-hp car, he's at 5200 rpm. W...T....F??? It's the same lap! Care to guess HOW this can happen?
Take a look at Walter Rohrl at Hockenheimring in the Cargraphic RSC. In one lap across the start/finish, he's @ 188 kph and the tach needle is clear of the "6". In the very next lap, he's down 5 kph at the same point, and the tach needle verly clearly obscures well half of the "6." These laps are only 1:55 apart, done in exactly the same climatic conditions, on a straight that is only 550m long, on the same damn tires. Now you want to call "cheating" on the basis of 150-200 rpm difference on a 2000+ meter straight on different settings (S1 vs S2), different tires, done 2 years apart on a track that creates its own microclimates?? That's the most retarded thing I've heard from you yet.
Let's face it. If Nissan advertised the GT-R as a 700-hp car (or one that weighed 1400kg), you wouldn't be questioning these numbers.
NOTHING!! 10 kph more or less are completely IRRELEVANT in a long straight like DH...
Could be SURELY a tire, or tailwind...
Wait. Prove to me that conditions were exactly the same. Then go ahead and refute the data for the ZR1 on the very same lap, and the RSC difference less than 2 minutes apart. According to your theory, the RSC somehow lost xxNm from one lap to the next.
While you're at it, provide the link to the 7:38 video.
HvS also used VDC on and makes sure to be safe in his laps because there is no roll cage. where as the manufacture can find the limits and ride them to the edge, just like suzuki does with vdc off.
if HvS used VDC off, he may have gone even slower to be safer but if he put alot of time into it, he could pull off the faster time with vdc off, but he would have to learn its limits and not fear as much.
lol you guys are bringing tires into the debate.
The solution to solve this lies with test driving the cars for yourself.
I've driven a 2006 Porsche Turbo, New R35 gtr, r32 gtr, ...but not yet the ZR1. I can only debate on what I have driven, not what I read on the internet, because there is a difference between talking the talk, and walking the walk.
ps. I do realize tires make a huge difference, my point is this so called debate you guys are having wont solve anything. There is forums littered with thousands of people digging up stats here and there; to what end? Test drive the cars for yourselves, then talk of your experiences. I also find I enjoy cars more when I'm around them, not the computer, lol.
I don't know if conditions are exactly the same. Anyway good for a GTR's record time, both.
Do you think really Jim Mero's engine a "full spec 640 hp" for the record? optimized for high revs..
Do you think really Rorhl driving in the RSC is the same limit driving as Suzuki' s record driving?
What about Basseng driving in the RSC?
W.Rorhl is only walking for the RSC, in your video. Is only a bad example.
And look at that, 15 Kph for better drive coming out of the final corner (105 vs 121 kph) converging 5 kph at the brake point (212 vs 217 kph).
I repeat for the last time. 10 kph in straight is a huge difference using a limit/effort driving for a lap record.
Suzuki is 272 kph able in the S1 car and ~280 kph in the S2 car. I recognize the effort of Suzuki, but.
Or S2 car is powerful, or is ridiculously faster than the 7.11 record setting Apollo at Galgenkopf speed corner. Fast as the MC12 speed corner. That's about 20+ Kph faster speed corner than S1 car, for same engine consideration. 15+ Kph faster than HvS in its fast lap. That Galgenkopf speed corner make sense?
..Now, I bet again with the conditions, tailwind...
Thank you for admitting your pure ignorance of possibly different NRing conditions (which can change from one lap to the next).
Yes, I do think Jim Mero's a "full 640 hp" for the record. Why wouldn't it be? You seriously think GM would fly over to the 'Ring with support crew and a weak ZR1? If you think that's a weak ZR1, then you must also accept that the ZR1 might be much faster than 7:26; and therefore, the GT-R's time is less incredible. It is not case of GT-R being too fast; it's a case of the ZR1 not being fast enough.
In any event Jim Mero himself said he faced a STRONG HEADWIND ON THE STRAIGHT.
WTF does Basseng have to do with Rohrl?? How do you know that Basseng hit exactly 217 kph on every single one of his laps and that he was within 150 rpm EVERYWHERE on track? Or you are saying Rohrl is slow-ass driver...
Go look at the acceleration curves of the S1 car vs the S1/S2 hybrid. They are pretty much the same; there is an excpetion: between Flugplatz and Schwedenkreuz, the S1 car actually has slightly steeper acceleration curve. In ideal and same conditions for all 3 (S1 vs S1/S2 vs S2), S2 car should be faster everywhere, but that's not guaranteed on a huge track like the 'Ring. Any moron with half a brain knows conditions change rapidly at the 'Ring. A weaker car can be slightly faster on one straight on one side of the track, but much slower on another straight on the other.
Again, MC12 was tested in less than ideal conditions. And Basseng only had a handful of laps to get used to that car; he had to drive Koenigsegg, Enzo, CGT, Zonda too. Is he going to maximize speed in all cars? Only a fool thinks so. And even HvS was faster in the GT-R than Basseng in the Maserati in many corners. Suzuki in a GT-R with for sure factory track alignment (as many cars in delivered in the US receive) and many more laps should be faster still.
Gumpert Apollo? What makes you think Suzuki's GT-R turned Galgenkopf @ 154+ kph?
Still don't think conditions affect a lap time? Take a look:
Sport Auto, 4/2006
Test driver Jochen Übler
Viper SRT-10 convertible
Power: 500 hp
Power/wt: 313 hp/tonne
Hockenheim club circuit: 1:13.7
Sport Auto, 10/2008
Test Driver Jochen Übler
Viper SRT-10 Coupe
Power: 600 hp
Power/wt: 384 hp/tonne (+23%)
Hockenheim club circuit: 1:14.2
Like I said, put up that 7:38 video link. While you're at, tell me if YOU have driven the Nurburgring for lap records.
LOL.... a year or so goes by....
but SCnet is still SCnet....
I'm pretty thrilled your back. You had more sense than most people on here.
Haha nothing changes.
What do you know about the new GT-R? I think it's about time somebody who isn't a retarded fanboy and knows what they're talking about gives some info on this car.
I've been so busy with work, I've pretty much ignored it.
Besides...with a 15 month old running around, I have little patience or time to get into an argument about a car I really don't know much about.
I've seen a couple around....I think they look nice. I've heard they've had some expensive repairs...and they are expensive to maintain.....but that doesn't surprise me too much....you have to pay to play...one way or another....
Although (and I may be wrong), Guibo seems to be fairly respectful of it....(although my break may have brought me back to the forums with a more even handed look at what its members are saying.....)
are you a fanboy badge whore like most of these people on sc.net? cause frankly im sick of them. They use only what they want to manipulate. While guibo here is about the only intelligent person i have seen on this forum for ages using the whole story and the facts. He also has not been a fanboy but a lover of all cars, including the underdog which has shown its weight (and pushed its weight past lighter and more powerfull cars).
Porsche have a lot more to gain by manipulating the market than nissan does. and its true that W .Rorhl has lied about this very car and it was proven from a fan asking him in person on a trackday.
No one is saying the R35 is the best car. it has many downsides, but the guys here are arguing the impossible givin the facts, just because they are fanboys that hate.
Hate is a powerful word. Just think what HATE spreads and how bad it gets. it makes you blind and it can also be very dangerous in certain conditions (like say racism and hate crimes etc).
Just be glad you havent had to put up with Ron Simmons, Ron Killings, Ron Flash... etc..
And what about "the Chin"....he still around?
You may or may not have heard of the RH9 Club before, and if you havenât what sort of rock do you prefer to live under these days? Anyway, RH9 Club is a group of workshops throughout Japan who are capable of building a GT-R capable of 9 second quarter mile passes in street trim.
While no R35 GT-R has stepped up to this realm yet, the RH9 Club does not simply ignore them altogether. Recently, in order to bring their collective expertise to the R35 owners of Japan they got together in Kyoto to work together on a set of tuning data that could be applied to the GT-R and be made available throughout the member workshop network.
The results achieved are interesting. Over at Phoenix Powerâs workshop a test car was donated by Decide 226 workshop as a test mule. Originally tuned by Decide, in standard trim, the car made 513ps with 68.6 kgm of torque up from a baseline of 459ps. Tweaked with the RH9 collaboratively built map, it went on to make 550ps and 72kgm of torque.
Later, the same map was applied to the Phoenixâs Power GT-R, which is modified with a Blitz SBC-iD boost controller and SARD high-flow exhaust and results were 614 ps and 96.1kgm or torque.
Just how much boost was being used in these runs was not revealed, wastegate modifications were also not detailed. In the past Phoenixâs Powerâs GT-R has run around 19.2psi running down to 13 psi by redline to achieve the 616ps it has previously clocked.
Interesting results out of Japan for relatively stock cars. The price for the upgrades are set at 168,000 yen plus 10,000 yen installation fee for 2008 model cars. An extra 60,000 yen fee is levied for the 2009 JDM cars which require some TCM tweaks apparently. Installation is available at any RH9 Club workshop throughout Japan.
No. But then again neither are you. So ya know. Season's change and so do I
oh the biggest fanboy on the site doesnt like fanboys?
im amazed its taken this long. they have been around for over 2 years
Nous avions dÃ©jÃ Â confrontÃ© la Nissan GT-R
Ã Â la Porsche 911 Turbo, dans sa configuration
480 chevaux. Mais Porsche a rÃ©cemment placÃ© la barre
Ã 500 chevaux. C'est l'occasion de rejouer le match,
avec un nouvel arbitre: le banc de puissance.
VERDICT: la Nissan crache 525 ch au lieu de 485 et la
Porsche 545 au lieu de 500... En forme!
puissance maxi: 524.6 ch
couple maxi: 66.4 mkg
Porsche 911 Turbo
puissance maxi: 545.1 ch
couple maxi: 71.6 mkg (74.9 mkg avec overboost)