HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

Discussion in '2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra' started by Scentless Apprentice, Dec 24, 2003.

  1. I'll let the numbers speak for themselves:

    ..................Cobra.................STi...........
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Price.............34,750................31,454........
    Displacement......4601cc................2457cc........
    Supercharger......8.0psi................14.5psi.......
    Horsepower........390hp@6000............300hp@6000....
    Torque............390lb-ft@3500.........300lbs-ft@4000
    Ratio.............15.0.1................15.2.1........
    Final drive.......3.55:1................3.90:1........
    Weight............3,530lbs..............3,125.........
    Weight/power......9.05 lb/hp............10.4 lb/hp....

    Performance:

    Quarter Mile......13.30@109mph..........13.29@100.5mph
    Road Course.......1:22.7................1.21.0.........
    Fuel Economy(epa)..16/22................18/24.........
    Top Speed.........155mph................145mph........

    And a few quotes:

    "As goofy as they look, don't discount the advantage of those two extra doors accessing the WRX's very useable rear seat."

    "One could easily argue the STi is the better all-around car. It's just as quick at the dragstrip, faster around the road course, and costs less"

    "The Cobra is far more challenging to drive hand around corners than the forgiving all wheel drive STi. We also found the Cobra's heavily bolstered leather wrapped seats to be uncomfortable compared to other Mustangs we've driven.

    "Considering it's traction disadvantage, in a street race with the STi, the Cobra would probably lose."

    thnx to 19 GODFATHER 86 for typing this out.

    comments ?
     
  2. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    I saw the magazine and the TV show on this comparison. It puts the hurt on all the "american muscle" fans egos. Wake up, turbo cars have been more consistent, faster and easier to upgrade for years.
     
  3. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    i would like to see one car easier to upgrade than the 03.
     
  4. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    Look dude, I don't know where you got those numbers from probably from a magazine but I'm the proud owner of a 03 Cobra and I have still have the slip from last fall from the track where I ran a 12.8 at 121 mph... Yeah, I ran a couple of low to mid 13's but best time was 12.8. If I could her to stick, I could run a hell alot faster that that too...

    Give me a few days and I will dig it up and post it.
     
  5. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    I'm sorry, I got my numbers mixed up... It was 12.8 at 112 mph, not 121 mph.
     
  6. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    I have some respect for the Japanese because they can take a small engine and make it run it's balls off...

    Another thing, I'm not going to say anything negative about the STi... I've never driven one so I can't dog it and say that it sucks just because of a magazine article or some numbers.

    But, I can say this. You buy an American V8 because of the sound that it makes that deep growl when you get deep into the throttle. You can't get that sound from a 4banger...

    If you wanted to up grade the STi, you can't too much higher because all you can do is put a bigger Turbo on it. Those little engines can't handle too much more boost before they shit the bed, that are designed for the stock turbo and maybe a few small upgrades and that's it on the engine. Where's a V8, (expecially the Cobra) You can bore the shit out of it and put a bigger pulley to create a little more boost and then you got a monster...

    I know this looking more like an essay so I will stop now...

    All I have to say is this...

    Off the line, the AWD, helps pull the STi alot because of better traction than the Cobra but if you (Cobra)were rolling about 30 to 35 mph and you dump it into 1st or 50 to 60 and dump into 2nd, You better be going straight because that Fu@ker is going to scream and make you shit all over yourself...

    Don't ever do a roll on with a Cobra in a STi, you will lose very badly
     
  7. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    First of all, the 12.8 you achieved is the same as the 2 12.8 runs I've seen for the STi, the two cars are pretty much equivalent in acceleration, he just posted that to show that it's so close that often the STi will win.


    Some people prefer the high pitched deep throaty growl of the Turbocharged Boxer 4, or the high pitched whine of a well designed, high compression 4 or 6 cylinder engine. It's like comparing an F1 car to a Top fuel dragster (though on a much smaller scale of course), some will prefer the F1, others will prefer the drag car.

    The WRX can run 400hp on stock internals, and as much as 800hp has been achieved reliably, with 9 sec. runs, nobody has really tried to tune the STi much, but it should be capable of about the same, if not more.


    "Don't ever do a roll on with a Cobra in a STi, you will lose very badly"

    I think they'd both pull pretty evenly as long as the STi is in the right gear to start, that is....until they hit about 140mph where the powerband in the STi will be dropping off steadily until it hits top speed.
     
  8. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    Well, you might be right on the number, like I said, I've never driven an STi and probably never will but I know that I will win on a roll on...

    You have to understand that you have to feather the clutch so badly to prevent wheelspin in the Cobra, if I could get this car to hook up good, you would see alot faster times in the 1/4... I can spin the tires a little off the line and some in 2nd and still run a 13 or 13.1.

    The STi's AWD platform basically alows no wheelspin, it just takes off. Where the Cobra has a lot if you don't know how to drive and very little if you do but it just never takes off. It makes it power mid to later 1st gear and then it screams.

    There is basically no (very very little) wheelspin on a roll on, the car just takes off... This car is almost stock is almost 400hp, if it would hook up better, it would be running mid 12's like the new 405 Z06...

    This years gears are better too...

    All in all, I'm very pleased that Ford is finally getting there shit straight with the Mustang... I've been a Ford fan since as long as I can remember and still will always be. I Love the older Mustangs and the 05 Mustang gives you that old style feel with the nice creature comforts of todays world...

    And soon (hopefully it all works out) the Mustang will get the 500 Horse beast and then fine tune that thing and maybe people will start gaining some respect for Ford and what they are trying to do...

    I'm tell you, if they could figure out how to make it stop spinning so badly, you would see alot of those numbers change, because the powers there and with the supercharger, the whole entire powerband is full with 390 torque!
     
  9. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    I believe the point of this thread and the magazine article was to compare old technology which is used in american muscle cars to the new technology used in todays japanese cars. That things have come a long way since the pushrod. The fact that a 4 cylinder turbocharged all wheel drive rally inspired car can easily compete on any turf with a supercharged rear wheel drive V8 inspired by drag racing.


    My personal taste's lean on the side of turbocharged cars just because of the fact that I like to take my car racing on the track and not the strip. The limits for turbocharged cars are set very very high. My car was produced in the early 90's and was capable of 600HP on stock internals. Tuning A/F ratios and boost is a very easy way to gain some serious horsepower. Not that it's hard to get serious HP from a supercharged car but it just yeilds a little bit less.

    The stats are there.
     
  10. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    t
     
  11. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    Well, there are two things to remember here:
    1. The STi has 6 PSI more than the Cobra
    2. The STi has AWD
    Both are significant advantages, and I'm not trying to underrate the STi or anythin, but if the Cobra only loses by .01 of a second that's VERY questionable. That .01 could easily shift either way, so those numbers are irrelevant. And chances are, the Cobra would be MUCH easier to upgrade than the STi. By replacing the blower pulleys the Cobra will be up there beating the Z06 even. And thats a VERY cheap modification. Plus, there's the issue of sound. I guarantee you more people like the rumble of a V8 more than the whiny sound of a 4-banger. But as long as the 4-banger has a muffler that mutes the whiny sound out, I'm still fine with it.

    I can hear the race cars at the track about 3 miles from my house. GOTTA LOVE NASCAR! Winston West Series I think, or some other type of stock car racing. They're racing around the track, not the 1/4 mile. I can tell cuz the sound of their might engines comes and goes. What a sweet sound it is.
     
  12. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    the cobras def the faster of the two (in a straight). even from a stop, off a stop they sti and cobra would be even until about 65mph or so then the cobra would pull away.
     
  13. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    Is that why the STI was .1 seconds faster through the quarter at 100-110MPH? Jackass.


    All the cobra guys are getting their panties in a bunch. Face it.... a japanese car which happens to be a 4 door with a 4 cylinder engine can beat your beloved V8. The 2003 cobras are quick....but not fast.
     
  14. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    "The 2003 cobras are quick....but not fast."

    You realize that you contradict yourself, right? Fast is not by definition "quicker than quick" or "faster than quick". And the reason the STi COMPETES with the Cobra is cuz it has a good (damn good) AWD system and some rather short gears. Plus, its lighter. And it gets higher PSI. Those more than make up for it being a 4-door, 4-cylinder engine. Easy way to smoke the shit outta the STi: replace the blower pulleys on the Cobra with better ones, increasing PSI and you get like an extra 50-60 horses right there. Simple. So dont act like the Cobra is a POS because it can BE beaten by a "4 door with a 4 cylinder engine." Hell, I'd say they're about even when it comes to accelleration and the STi is an AWD.
     
  15. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    If you had a fast car and raced it you would know there is a difference between quick and fast.


    Like I said you are getting your panties in a bunch. The cobra got beat and you go off saying that "if you added this and that to the cobra it would smoke the STI" that is just ignorant. The cars compared were bone stock.

    The higher PSI achieved in the STI is due to turbos. I run 17PSI on a daily basis where as most street driven supercharged cars run nowhere that. Turbos produce inheriently higher pressures than superchargers.

    Than you goo off saying they are even because the STI is lighter and AWD. Did you happen to forget that the cobra has over 90HP more than the STI? Not to mention it has double the amount of cylinders.

    I have raced both the cobra and the STI both from a roll and a light and I personally thought the cobra was faster. It might have seemed that way due to the fact that my car is so hard to launch as is the cobra but either way that's how it "seemed" But than again I have seen much better times out of STI's and modded WRX's than I have come out of the cobra. They appera to be low 13 second cars from the factory.


    In conclusion you are a moron.....thanks for playin'
     
  16. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    This has to be the most one-sided forum i've ever read.

    First of all you fial to mention that this particular article said that in the end there really was no winner and it came down to personal preferance.
    Second, you are quick to point out all the fualts of the Cobra but you don't mention what the testors thought of the subs "bread box" hood scoop, or boeing spoiler. or the fact that they made fun of the sound that it made. The cobra also has more class and heritage than the STi.

    Another thing about the times are that the Cobra was Extremely traction limited and with a good set of street drag radials it had the potential to go ALOT faster down the quarter mile. The Cobra also has a higher top speed.

    I've seen Cobras run as high as 678 rear wheel horsepower on stock internals with something as simple as a different blower or increasing the boost, and nothing else.

    I don't know how much a subie costs but I'm sure it's not that cheaper than a Cobra, all I'm saying is that I would take the cobra becuase for slightly more money you can have the potential to make ALOT more power for ALOT less than you could with the subaru, and you wouldn't have to listen to that four banger.

    I'm not bashing the STi I'm just adding some argument for the Cobra, I think they are both good cars.

    As for that prick who is obsesed with male underware, stop being so damn defensive of your little imports and go #$%# yourself
     
  17. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    I'll pick you apart paragraph by paragraph and wont even mention that you suck at english.

    1ST: The people testing the two cars were from a hot rod magazine, which car do you think they would favor? If you were to read the entire article or watched the TV show you would have realized that they are bias towards muscle cars. The fact that a supercharged V8 got beat by a turbo 4 is a disgrace to muscle car owners everywhere.

    2nd: how many people cruise around on the street with slicks on? How many 2003 cobra owners even own a set of slicks? Yeah that arguement is null. The cobra can have the top speed, why? because people rarely go 150+ MPH.

    3rd: what you have "seen" is not a proven or valid source of information in anyones eyes but your own. Again another null and void arguement. Provide sources whit a creditable history.

    4th: You most likely couldn't afford either of these cars. Whay "you want" doesn't make a difference at all.


    5th: An insult from a guy who doesn't seem to know shit being directed at another guy who can beat a slightly modified 2003 cobra makes me laugh. And if you think panties are "male underware" you are obviously single and most likely wonder why on those lonely nights.

    Thanks for playing.
     

  18. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT


    First of all you seem like a real prick, so I'll try not to make this that long.

    1) where or when did that guy ever have bad english? and why do you care? what are you an english teacher?

    2)The V-8 didn't as you say "get Beat" by a turbocharged fourbanger, you could blow smoke out your ass and go faster thats how close the times were, plus the mustang had a higher trap speed.

    3) Lots of Cobra owners own slicks, besides Nitto makes street tires that are basically like slicks becuase of the materials they're made of.

    4) Your obviously an idiot, if 150 Mph top speeds aren't that important than why have ferraris or lamborginis, why not just have all wheel drive subarus that go 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and top out at 100 Mph, your argument is more "null" than anyones.

    5) Ask anyone who knows dick all about cars and the automotive industry and they will tell you a stock cobra motor is easily capable of 600+ horsepower, you want sources, try any racetrack or mustang magazine in the country and you'll see it has been done MANY times.

    6) You have no idea who that guy is, for all you know he could be the CEO of some company and own several Cobras.

    7) "An insult from a guy who doesn't seem to know shit being directed at another guy who can beat a slightly modified 2003 cobra makes me laugh ''. Like you said, what you have "seen" is not a proven or valid source of information in anyones eyes but your own. Again another null and void arguement. Provide sources whit a creditable history. for all we know you don't even own a car and are blowing smoke out of your ass.

    8) you're obviously some kind of #%$get becuase you're obsessed with men wearing womens underwear, now; I don't know if that's your little fantasy or what but I don't think thats appropriate on this forum, if you need a place to go, I'm sure there are plenty of homosexual sites out there for you, it is the internet after all.
     
  19. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    Your last sentence pretty much sums up your intelligence level.

    I am up here































































    and you are way down here. Yeah it must suck to be as ignorant as you.

    BTW: acording to the stats a supercharged V8 "muscle" car got beat by 4 door 4 cylinder grocery getter.
     

  20. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT


    Yeh, I kind of thought you wouldn't have any intelligent comeback to my statement.

    I don't know how many STi's YOU see going to the grocery store, I'm pretty sure the STi is one of subarus higher end, fast cars. Most people you see in STi's are either at the track or using it as a weekend cruiser, its not the Average "grocery getter'" as much as you cliam it to be.

    P.S What does you being a rope sucker have to do with my intelligence level?
     
  21. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    I see more STI's than I do 2003 cobras on the street. They are cheaper, faster and carry more people...thats most likely why.

    You being an ignorant kid has everything to do with your intelligence level.

    I pity you and I pity your parents even more.

    have a nice day <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>

    BTW: That still doesn't change the fact that the mustang got beat by a sedan and every catagory other than top speed. But since you drive around at the max speed of your metro (70MPH) I guess top speed is VERY important LOLOLOLOL.
     
  22. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    An 84 Ford Tuarus that costs $700 with $7000 worth of parts under the hood would be cheaper, faster, and carry more people than an STi, but that doesn't mean it's a better car now does it. Two things you seem to be missing about the Cobra: class, and potential. And What Potential! I know you probably can't afford the $3000 more for the Cobra but try to deal with this SHOCKING increase in price over the STi.

    "BTW: That still doesn't change the fact that the mustang got beat by a sedan and every catagory other than top speed. But since you drive around at the max speed of your metro (70MPH) I guess top speed is VERY important LOLOLOLOL."

    Yeh, a sedan that weights more than 400 lbs less. calling it a sedan doesn't mean anything, everyone knows its not as heavy so I don't know what your trying to prove.

    Every category other than topspeed?
    I wouldn't consider an 0.01 second slower and 8.5 Mph faster quarter mile by the Cobra on street tires agianst and AWD platform exactly loosing.

    Besides that the STi actually got crappier tested gas milege than the cobra (16.59 versus the cobras 17.05 as tested)

    With the Cobra for probably less than $2000, you could have it making around 500 Rwhp, on stock internals since these engines are built so solid.

    This argument basically boils down to "old school versus new school" and since this is a COBRA forum, and not an STi forum why don't you piss off and go rag on the Cobra in the Suburu forum so we don't have to listen to your stupidity.


    (All specs and information taken from Hot Rod Magazine January 2004)
     
  23. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    "But since you drive around at the max speed of your metro (70MPH) I guess top speed is VERY important LOLOLOLOL."

    I'm not sure what in the living hell your talking about (I'll just assume your on crack) but I guess your trying to insult this guy by saying he drives a Geo Metro? but what does that have to do with anything? we're talking about the Cobra and STi here, not peoples personal vehicles. If that was the case what would you care since you probably drive an 87' dodge sprint (55MPH)

    You call him an ignorant kid yet you yourself resort to childish slander whenever someone proves you wrong.
     
  24. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    Watching you defend your other jibberish screen name like it's somebody else is rather amusing yet sad at the same time. I guess it's sad because you actually use the world childish to describe me. That's rich.

    I'm keeping the pity all stocked up for ya.
     
  25. Re: HOT ROD: USA vs. Japan - V8 vs. H4 - STi vs. SVT

    Lots of people have jibberish screen names becuase they're not losers with full time accounts on here like you. I think its sad that this is your only comeback to every argument I've presented you with.

    P.S
    when did I ever defend the other jibberish name?, i simply stated what was true and you changed the subject from the facts to pick apart peoples screen names.

    "the internet is a funny thing, isn't it? so many stupid people in so imaginary of a place, kind of makes you glad for computer viruses."
     

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