How Ferrari spins (article/rant)

Discussion in 'European Cars' started by lucky strike, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. In fact one of his big points is that the cars are already really good, so all of their policies on testing make even less sense.
     
  2. It'a funny how the GT3/GT2 RS versions of the 911 are apples and oranges compared to the 458, I don't remember this arguement used when the LP560-4 and the Scuderia were against each other in comparison tests...

    i'll never understand the one-way thought process of a ferrari fanboy
     
  3. #103 lambornima, Feb 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    They just need to let the cars speak for themselves. To be fair others HAVE sent ringers to tests, but it seems Ferrari are doing it far more than others.

    This is the article I was talking about its Car and Driver:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/07q2/2007_ferrari_599gtb_fiorano-road_test

    "For testing, Ferrari supplied a different 599 than this one, although equipped the same. Minded by a couple of Puma-shod technicians, it reached 60 mph in 3.3 seconds and turned the quarter-mile in 11.2 seconds at 131 mph"

    These numbers suggest (not just from this test but others) that the car is as quick as an LP670-SV which traps 129 mph in the 1/4 mile. Given that in reality its about as quick as an LP560 or LP640, this is clearly not an accurate representation of what a customer would get if they purchased one.

    What ferrari need to get is that it DOESNT MATTER what the numbers say. Sales wont go down is one of your cars gets out lapped in a track test.
     
  4. I worked for Ferrari of Ontario.
     
  5. I was at tests for the 360 challenge stradale, 575, and the Enzo. whic one do you want to know about.
     
  6. Ferrari must really hate seeing those youtube videos of their cars getting obliterated by Ksegg's.
     
  7. BEST POST
     
  8. Oh good, two fanboys in one thread. Hoping for the best to come out of this.
     
  9. so, this "optimising performance" deal with a whole team full of engineers, sometimes with two cars for individual purposes, is what every ferrari customer gets?

    I didn't know they did a 2-for-1 deal!
     
  10. now I love Ferrari, but seriously this guy is such a tool.

    I'm not sure he understands the concept of a double-standard
     
  11. Only in case of the FXX
    Which means you can't take the car home, haha.
     
  12. Faster by a whopping 4/10ths of a second. The question is: how fast would the 458 have been if it had just rolled onto the track without the Ferrari team of engineers, adjusting the tire pressures, using a questionable fuel source? (For which I'm guessing the ECU was "optimized"; after all, that was the explanation given here when the standard F430 blitzed the competition in the QR comparo.)

    Evo tested both cars on road and track and came to the conclusion that the RS was the better all around sports car. It suspension was also more supple over bumps. Funny thing is, for the track portion, it was wet/damp. And sure enough, Ferrari were there to ensure the best possible outcome: They changed the tires on the 458.
    If you still think other manufacturers go to similar lengths and are no different, then there's really not much else to say. You just don't get it.
     
  13. also, as a note, the 458 is ~100 grand more expensive.
     
  14. all of them plz
     
  15. the commen theme: none of them had the factory programing or computers in the cars and none of the fuel was from north america (we were told that it was just 98 octane but we had our doubts). tyres were always different. they looked stock but for the handleing exercises the tyres were far stickier than you would be able to get from the factory.

    the exhaust on the 575 and 360 were essentially running headers the Enzo was stock except for the computer, fuel, and tyres.

    the engines also came from Italy and we were never allowed to open them (pretty sure the 360 challenge car had the engine from an actual challenge car). gear ratios were also optomized for the track/test (one car would be set up for acceleration. the other for the particular track the test was being held). differentials were also optimized for the best possible outcome.
     
  16.  
  17. #117 yuanyelss, Feb 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  18. #118 mafalda, Feb 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    "The question is: how fast would the 458 have been if it had just rolled onto the track without the Ferrari team of engineers"

    Ex. 1
    Balocco Alfa Romeo
    430 Scuderia "official": 2.21.2
    430 Scuderia "customer": 2.19.3 (with exactly the same top speed, it means: no chipped)
    http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/balocco_alfa_romeo.html (all customer cars, direct comparo)
    430S 1/2s faster than Carrera GT
    599 GTB 1.9s faster than SLR 626ps

    Ex. 2
    EVO (hahahaahahahahah) @ Ring (marc Basseng)
    7:24.29 168.53 km/h - Maserati MC12
    7:24.65 168.40 km/h - Pagani Zonda F Clubsport
    7:25.21 168.19 km/h - Ferrari Enzo
    7:28.71 164.76 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT
    7:33.55 163.62 km/h - Koenigsegg CCX, 817 PS
    and don't forget:
    - basseng had aledy tested the Zonda CS, and this was surely an advantage for the Zonda
    - Enzo had some problems
    any questions?

    abuot 430 vs GT2 Vs Lp560
    Vairano Supertest 2008 (all official, all with mnfr's team)
    430S 1.15.3
    GT2 1.15.5
    LP560 1.15.7
    GT-R 1.17.6
     
  19. #119 mafalda, Feb 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    this is the Auto's forum (auto is the second most important italian car-magazine)
    Lorenzo Facchinetti, chief-driver (username: Lorenz) wtites about the road test:
    ****Lorenzo Facchinetti (Lorenz) don't want say "Harris is right" or "Harris is wrong", simply he writes about their experience during the road test"
    http://forum.auto.it/pit-stop-f7/c-harris-evo-la-ferrari-sui-road-test-bara-t1913.html

    "A quanto mi risulta, Ferrari non fornisce macchine "dopate" ma esemplari nella loro miglior forma fisica.

    Significa che Ferrari si assicura che quel determinato esemplare possa offrire il massimo sotto ogni punto di vista, dalla potenza del motore alla perfetta taratura dei sistemi elettronici, dalla geometria delle sospensioni a giusto set di pneumatici.
    E questa pratica, che lo crediate o meno, viene fatta da tutte le case automobilistiche, dalle generaliste alle premium. Le vetture destinate alla stampa spesso e volentieri seguono un inter diverso rispetto alla produzione di serie per essere controllate meglio affinché ogni cosa sia al posto giusto. "

    transl.
    "Italian to English translation
    As I know, Ferrari does not give "doping" machines, just in perfect condition.

    It means that Ferrari will ensure that this particular unit can offer the best, from the engine power to the perfect calibration of electronic systems, the suspension geometry to right set of tires.
    ******And this practice, believe it or not, is made by all "premium" car manufacturers The cars intended for the press more often than to follow a whole different series production to be better controlled so that everything is in place."*****
     
  20. "But that does not mean that they are prepared and they play dirty. They do this within the limits of mass production. in the case of this kind of cars assembled almost by hand, may show a difference (also important) the tolerances that determine the quality of assembly rather than the performance of mechanical parts. I know of some engines dropped (not Ferrari, another mark "similar") from the production line because it became too powerful compared to the average declared value.
    "

    "The presence of the Ferrari team to the tests, as I have often said and as other newspapers also followed us, represents a technical support to the journalist, not a gun to his head so that we can do more than we can succeed in the pilot and the car itself.
    As far as I'm concerned, the presence of the team does not bother me at all. Indeed, it is an opportunity to talk one day with competent and passionate people (there are usually a test, a race engineer, the press office) outside of a formal context which may be a press event and deepen so every aspect of technical, commercial or various other interesting tidbits about the car in question.

    Of course, do this also to get the situation under control, it is obvious. They want to make sure that everything is done well and find me again on this issue agree. A car like the 458 Italy, stuffed with various blowjobs manettino and, if it ends in the hands of a journalist who has not been documented properly on the car (and I guarantee you that with some machines, before writing, you have to study like a university exam on p. 100 press releases from ...), could maybe do with the acceleration in manettino Wet and then remove 6 "on 0-100, rather than doing laps with suspension and the change in comfort and feel the car a toilet ."
     
  21. more

    Coming back to the "doping press cars", and those from customers are s**t, I can refute with facts, at least in our case. When we tried the 430 Scuderia (official Ferrari factory ...), in addition to handling around the track even took the time on the track Alfa Romeo, a path of over 6 km, still in Balocco, FIA approved and very fast. The machine broke off a certain time (not published because we have few comparative references) and we defined the overall behavior of the machine to the limit a bit 'critical support in the fast corners, with the rear end that did not give confidence.
    On the occasion of Supertest with machines of readers, the 430 Scuderia to a private person, tested on the same track Alfa Romeo, proved two seconds faster and above all more stable because the geometry of the suspensions were adjusted better (always within the tolerances set ) compared to those of the specimen "official"

    abpout "SUPERTIRES", as in the case of a car, or perhaps worse, even the tires may have huge differences in performance for the same make, model and size, due to many factors other than differences in the production line. When Ferrari and Lamborghini (oh yeah, there's always a LAmbo team during the test.. sotty, Guibo <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A> ) are in Balocco with their cars (and at least two sets of tires, are quick to crumble ...) is saying that you can bring back the best set of tires. Before leaving home to try different trains and choose the two best. Who would do the opposite?

    Chris Harris: I already knew this "friction"between the British colleague and Maranello.
    I will not give anyone right or wrong: I only say that the English often have the habit of doing comparative testing machines with "private". And this has upset by Ferrari for the speeches referred to above. Ferrari can not know in what conditions "physical"toward the car in question, if you have smooth or deflated the tires rather than the knackered engine. Ferrari keeps its image more than a supermodel, so here they should have control over every little detail that will somehow ruin their image.
     
  22. This thread has become ridiculous
     
  23. For real, Ferrari does some shady shit which they shouldn't do. Are their cars awesome? sure but they're douchebags too
     
  24. Sums it up perfectly.
     
  25. whatever im just happy ferrari named their new f1 car after my beloved ford truck. they get my respect
     

Share This Page