Hundreds Held Hostage in Russia School

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by amenasce, Sep 1, 2004.

  1. Apparently there are still two main groups of attackers loose, one group in a house away from teh school and one group in an outbuilding on school grounds. The FSB troops are in the midst of surrounding them. Rumours are that the attackers escaped with hostages, but there has been reports of weapons being fired, including small arms, explosives, and even a report of cannon fire from a tank.

    The security in this situation was awful. Apparently there was no solid area of security around the school, parents and other civilians are mixing with the troops around the area, even during the assault. This led to the escape to the surrounding area of many attackers. A reporter just said that a mob of civilians had just captured a couple attackers dressed in the clothing of hostages, somewhere in the town. It was nearly a lynching, but police interuppted the mob and took the suspect into custody.
     
  2. That’s because the UK decided to take the pussy liberal mindset and now doesn’t accept the idea that its citizens have the right to defend themselves with ANYTHING. Under British law you have to let your attacker murder you unless the police can stop it.

    In 2002 according to the US Department of Justice American used firearms for self defense 2,200,000 times. And criminals are 7 times more likely to encounter an armed citizen than the police.

    In my own area I can recall 3 self defense shootings within the past year.

    1. A young mother was getting her baby out of her car when an arm man approached her. She pulled out her own handgun shooting him dead. The police said he had previously committed two similar attacks in which the victims were raped and strangled. –Newport News

    2. A 73 year old woman was sleeping when 3 men broke into her home at 1:30am. Grandma shot 2 of them and the 3rd ran away. The men were suspected of a string of similar crimes. –Newport News

    3. A man was being beaten to death by two teenagers in who were “bored”. While on the ground the man pulled out his own handgun fatally shooting one of the teenagers in the stomach, the other one ran away. Law enforcement on the scene stated he would have been beaten to death if it weren’t for his actions. – Virginia Beach

    I've had to call the police once since i've lived here and it took them 17 minutes to show up and they went to the wrong apartment. I'll keep my gun thanks.
     
  3. They should have just let the crowd kill him...

    Since these guys didn't show any more compassion for their family members.
     
  4. like the whole Lee Harvey-Oswald incident back in '63 when someone in the crowd (Jack Ruby) shot him?
     
  5. In Australia not only are you not really allowed to defend yourself, the police can get in trouble if they speed. Its insane.
     
  6. But more than one fatal shooting or murder a week in the UK is rare. In fact months can go by without a gun related murder beng in the papers or on the news.

    The whole gun culture and amount of violent crime over here means that the public are not asking for the right to arm themselves.
    Every few months you come on here and mouth off about how much better you are than people from the UK because you have a gun.
    The vast majority of people in the UK don want a gun and don't feel that they need them.

    Yeah people get mugged and burgled over here but I've yet to read a single interview (or even speaking to one or two people who I know it's happened to in my whole life) where any of the victims said they wished they had a gun so they could shoot them.


    Don't judge us by your standards.
     
  7. Update

    1540: The bodies of sixty victims of the siege have been identified.

    1530: Officials say the death toll could be much higher than 150.

    1520: Presidential adviser Aslambek Aslakhanov says that there were at least nine Arabs among the hostage-takers.

    1514: Officials say that some children are still being held hostage.

    1450: Interfax reports three rebels have blockaded themselves into Russian school basement, possibly including head hostage-taker.

    1440: Regional emergency officials confirm that there are at least 100 dead bodies in the school gym.
     
  8. Reports of 220 bodies counted have surfaced, not yet confirmed. My hands are shaking, I can't think of anything else. Work is going to suck today.
     
  9. 1 - At 0850GMT a vehicle from the Emergencies Ministry is sent in to retrieve the bodies of those killed at the start of the siege
    2 - A small number of the children being held hostage escape from the building. The attackers start firing at the children to try to block their escape. In response the Russian troops surrounding the school fire at the attackers
    3 - A series of explosions rock the school gymnasium, bringing the roof of the building down
     
  10. Goddamit!!!!! Why take children as hostages!!!!!<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/angry.gif"></A>

    I'm pissed now.<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/angry.gif"></A>
     
  11. 1608: Interfax news agency cites presidential aide as saying total number of hostages held in school may have been as many as 1,200.

    1605: Explosion heard again in school vicinity.
     
  12. Three of the attackers are blockaded in a school basement and one of them is the leader of the hostage-takers. There are also reports that some children and others remain hostages by a remnant of the gang seized the school.

     
  13. russian officials are saying that there are at least 9 Arab mercenaries among the hostage-takers...
     
  14. And that's just among the ones that have been killed. No indication amongst the others still alive. Witnesses say that most of the hostage-takers wore masks for the entire ordeal.

    Someone from the emergency services just said that 646 people have been hospitalised to this point, including hundreds of children.
     
  15. ....so can anyone provide commentary on whether the russians screwed up here? from what little i can tell, it doesnt seem like THEY triggered all the deaths, but that the terrorists went a little apeshit and then the siege began.

    no doubt this is a terrible disaster.
     
  16. Russia should start eliminating high-powered terrorists, using Untel, like we do.

    This is seriously terrible. Everything went wrong. This is taking way too much time and there are way too many casualties. Some country/organization needs to be punished for this.
     
  17. My initial feelings were that the Russians were to blame, but it really appears they did not instigate the assault.

    "I want to point out that no military action was planned," said regional Federal Security Service chief Valery Andreyev. "We were planning further talks."

    The Russian FSB and Emergency Response was ready for a long and extended seige. They had just brought more negotiators in from Moscow this morning.

    The negotiators made an agreement with the attackers to allow a truck and some men close to the school to allow removal of some corpses from the school grounds. When the approached the school, they were fired upon. In the resulting gunfight, a group of hostages ran from the school, and the attackers began firing into the escapees. At that point, the Russian decided to assault the school. I do not envy the postion of the Russians that had to make the decision. I don't know that any counter-terrorist group could have made a better choice.

    That being said, there are some serious flaws in how the Russians handled this. There was not a solid line of security around the school. The troops allowed civilians, mostly relatives and journalists, inside the cordoned off area during the entire event. This created a scene of chaos and confusion that still exists. The confusion also allowed groups of attackers to leave the school unaccounted for, which I feel is inexcusable.

    Second, there are logistical problems with how it has been handled. There were few ambulances waiting for casualties once the assault began, and they had to be driven in from the hospital after the assault started. In fact, people had to use civilian vehicles while the ambulances were being brought into the area!

    Third, the FSB spokespeople had stated that there was no plan for dealing with this sort of event. I find it hard to imagine why even a elite unit like Alfa Brigade did not have a plan of action. The troops in the area were disorganised and there are individuals from many different units, with no clear definition of protocols for command, communication, or what role each person was to fill.

    This is very frustrating, more details are becoming available as events unfold, but I think it will be some hours before we have a good understanding of what is really happening.
     
  18. Who cares, its Russia.
     
  19. Its Chechnya... its always them.
    My idea has always been the following: Take all the russians out of chechnya, bomb it until its one bigass parking lot, then forget it all happened.
    They should have done this long ago...
     
  20. The root of this is Russian involvement in Chechnya to begin with. I really think Chechnya should have been allowed its independence years ago, and I am hardly a supporter of their cause.

    It's not like Chechnya provides a useful function in the Russian Federation. It is as if Maine split from the US and joined Canada, all we would lose is some nice potatos.
     
  21. Dude <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/sad.gif"></A>
     
  22. That's some #$%#ed up shit.
     
  23. One of the biggest issue dealing with Islamist extremists in Chechnya is the lack of a single power structure. Most are members of small unofficial groups, and do not fall under an organization like Hammas. Very difficult to target.
     
  24. You father was a pussy in Vietnam. He's also a closet homosexual.
     

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