Hundreds Held Hostage in Russia School

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by amenasce, Sep 1, 2004.

  1. I agree these sick bastards don't deserve to live, but how does nuking an area populated with civilians in a rebel held area make us, or the Russians, any better than them and the massacre they have just been responsible for ? If they nuke a rebel base and kill, say, 300 civilians (twice the estimated death toll at the school) can they feel proud of wiping out some terrorists ?
    You see the almost impossible situation the government are in ? - the only time the governments fighting this filth really get to have a go at them is when they are holding hostages and the government has to choose the right time to go in and wipe them out.
     
  2. True, I guess I was overreacting because this is all such an outrage. The problem with these Chechens is that they are not a large organization like Al-Qaida but rather a bunch of small mercenary groups. Furthermore, I seriously doubt that conventional Russian military capabilities are enough to deal with this. They havn't been able to manage Chechnya for years.
     
  3. #154 BOBITRON, Sep 3, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    The conventional military of any nation is not suited for this sort of action.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3625536.stm

    Putin on the defensive

    By Paul Reynolds
    BBC News Online world affairs correspondent

    The Russian President Vladimir Putin will have to defend himself on two fronts in the aftermath of the tragic end to the school siege in North Ossetia.

    First, he will have to show that he kept his promise not to endanger the lives of the children. He will only be able to do that if he can demonstrate that the security forces were responding to a situation, not creating one.

    The large number of casualties will make that task all the more difficult.

    Second, he will have to defend his policy in Chechnya itself. His refusal to grant it independence is the background to the seizure of the school and other recent terrorist attacks including a suicide bomb outside a Moscow Metro station and the blowing up of two airliners in mid flight.


    Defending his policy

    "He may use this to his advantage and come out with an aggressive defence of his position," said Dr Sean McGough of the Department of Politics at Birmingham University.

    "This was a declaration of war against the Russian people. Each incident recently has increased in ferocity and this one attacked the thing most dear to the Russian people - the safety of their children," he told BBC News Online.

    "President Putin will have a good defence if he can blame the hostage takers. He might argue that with such people there can be no compromise and that they must be faced and defeated.

    "To start with, he may try to root out terrorist elements in Russia itself, which could mean a more stringent security policy. He could use this as a reason for a clampdown. Internationally, he will probably present Russia's case more forcefully and claim that the Chechens have links with al-Qaeda."
     
  4. I don't think the Russians screwed up. It seems that the Terrorists booby traps set up around and inside the building was what wiped out the poor kids. The blew out the roof in part of the building and it killed heaps of hostages. Not to mention the kids made a run for it so the terrorsts started mowing them down as they were escaping. That's why the Russians ran in their.
     
  5. What a terrible event. Seing thoses kids lying dead on the ground really hurt me.

    A parents worst nightmare. And I hope that I will not live that.
     
  6. I'm not even a parent and I somewhat know how you feel.
     
  7. putin will hit back.


    btw from his remarks i have noticed he doesn't give a f*ck what bush or any other american thinks.
     
  8. From the BBC

    More than 320 bodies have been pulled from the rubble of the school in southern Russia where a hostage siege ended in a bloodbath, officials say.
    Work has been slowed by the presence of mines in the building, where militants demanding Chechen independence held children and adults for three days.

    Smoke still hung over the school, where hundreds were also injured, as President Putin visited the casualties. The Russian leader confirmed there had been no plans to storm the building.

    "We are still identifying the bodies. We have recovered 322 bodies, 155 of them are children," Russia's Deputy Prosecutor General Sergei Fridinsky told reporters in the North Ossetian town of Beslan on Saturday.
     
  9. can't do, innocent people live there...
     
  10. This kind of shit makes me want to join the Marines and go and kill some #$%#ing people like that. Killing young kids isn't right. I would be more then happy to blow their heads off from 2 feet away. Every single one of them. I wouldnt care just like how they didnt care about killing/injuring all those little kids.
     
  11. that's news to no one, jackass. Russia doesnt like outside people urging them what to do about internal problems like Chechnya
     
  12. Then go join the Marines.
     
  13. Im seriously considering it. Its either Air Force or Marines. I already have some documents and went to a few meetings and whatnot. Only thing holding me back is my family.
     
  14. The last thing the military of any nation needs is someone with the sort of brutal attitude you displayed.
     
  15. #166 BOBITRON, Sep 4, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=040904&cat=news&st=newsd84t29mo0&src=ap

    BESLAN, Russia (AP) - A shaken President Vladimir Putin made a rare and candid admission of Russian weakness Saturday in the face of an "all-out war" by terrorists after more than 340 people, nearly half of them children, were killed in a hostage-taking at a southern school.

    Putin went on national television to tell Russians that they must mobilize against terrorism and promised wide-ranging reforms to toughen security forces and purge corruption.

    "We showed weakness, and weak people are beaten," he said.
     
  16. Some pics from the aftermath, from BBCnews.com
     
  17. This is the majority of Putin's speech, also from BBCnews.com

    President Putin addressed the Russian nation on television on Saturday. Excerpts from his remarks:

    It's difficult to speak, and it's bitter. A terrible tragedy has occurred in our land.

    Over all these last few days, each of us has suffered profoundly and experienced in our hearts everything which happened in the Russian town of Beslan, where we came up against not just murderers, but people who used their weapons against defenceless children.

    And today, I am addressing first and foremost, with words of support and sympathy, those people who lost the dearest thing in life - their children.

    I am asking you to remember all those who died at the hands of terrorists in the last few days. Russia's history has seen many tragic pages and grave ordeals.

    Today we are living in conditions which have emerged following the break-up of a vast great state, a state which unfortunately turned out to be unable to survive in the context of a rapidly changing world. But despite all the difficulties, we have managed to preserve the core of the colossus which was the Soviet Union.

    And we called the new country the Russian Federation. We all expected changes, changes for the better. But we have turned out to be absolutely unprepared for much that has changed in our lives...

    On the whole, we have to admit that we have failed to recognise the complexity and dangerous nature of the processes taking place in our own country and the world in general. In any case, we have failed to respond to them appropriately.

    We showed weakness, and the weak are trampled upon. Some want to cut off a juicy morsel from us while others are helping them.

    They are helping because they believe that, as one of the world's major nuclear powers, Russia is still posing a threat to someone, and therefore this threat must be removed.

    And terrorism is, of course, only a tool for achieving these goals. But as I have already said many times, we have faced crises, mutinies and acts of terror more than once.

    But what has happened now, this crime of the terrorists, inhuman, unprecedented in terms of its cruelty, is not a challenge to the president, to parliament or to the government.

    This is a challenge to the whole of Russia, to the whole of our people, this is an attack on our country.

    The terrorists believe they are stronger than us, that they will be able to intimidate us with their cruelty, that they will be able to paralyse our will and demoralize our society.

    And it would appear that we have a choice of resisting them or agreeing to their claims, surrendering, allowing them to destroy and split Russia, in the hope that they will finally leave us in peace.

    As president, the head of the Russian state - the person who swore an oath to defend the country and its territorial integrity - and simply as a citizen of Russia, I am convinced that in reality we simply have no choice.

    Because if we allow ourselves to be blackmailed and if we give in to panic, we will submerge millions of people into endless and bloody conflicts like those in Karabakh, in the Dniester region, and other well-known tragedies we know only too well.

    One cannot fail to see the obvious. We are dealing here not just with separate actions aimed at frightening us, not just with separate terrorist sorties.

    We are dealing with direct intervention of international terrorism against Russia, with a total, cruel and full-scale war in which our compatriots die again and again.

    The entire world experience shows that these wars, unfortunately, do not end quickly.

    In these conditions, we simply cannot, we must not live as carelessly as we have done until now. We must create a more effective security system, demand from our law-enforcement bodies actions which are appropriate to the level and scale of the new threats that have emerged.

    But the main thing is mobilisation of the nation before a common danger. Events in other countries have shown that terrorists received the most effective rebuff where they encounter not only the power of the state but an organised, united civil society.

    Fellow countrymen, the aim of those who sent the bandits to carry out this horrific crime was to divide our people, to frighten the Russian citizens, to unleash a fratricidal bloodbath in the North Caucasus. However , in this respect I have the following to say.

    First, in the near future a range of measures to strengthen the unity of the country will be prepared.

    Second, I think it is essential to create a new system for coordinating the forces and resources controlling the situation in the North Caucasus.

    Third, it is essential to set up an effective, crisis management system, including a fundamentally new approach to the actions of the law-enforcement agencies.

    I stress that all these measures shall be carried out in full compliance with the country's constitution...

    It is impossible to become reconciled to the anguish of the loss. But the ordeals have brought us even closer together and made us re-evaluate many things. Today we must be together. This is the only way for us to defeat the enemy.
     
  18. The official death toll is over 320 now, with about half being children. Most of the school has been cleaned out now, so the numbers are not expected to rise much more.

    Hostages gave reports that the terrorists had weapons inside the school. One report said that there was ammunition and explosives hidden under floorboards in one area of the school, and that the attackers made repeated trips to get more munitions as the assault was taking place. There is some speculation that the attackers had contacts in the school and that they had been planning this attack for some time.

    What do you all think of Putin's speech? I am suprised that he admitted any weakness on the part of the security forces, it came as a suprise to many military analysts around the world. We will have to see what changes are made.

    Also, Putin did not mention Chechnya during his visit even once, in an attempt to distance this incident with the ongoing occupation of that territory.

     
  19. Well then. You can go ahead and try to talk to those terrorists.

    Hi terrorists how are you doing...Good? Well, I would just like to tell you that we need those kids back untouched and that you remove yourselves from our country.

    Terrorists - #$%# YOU.................BOOM

    Dont tell me that no country wants someone with that mentality towards some cowards who would take all those kids hostage moron.
     
  20. I'm so sad knowing that more than half of the deads are children.
    I can't stand when dumbasses takes children as hostages!!!!

    #$%#!! I'm pissed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  21. To a degree, the entire situation was created by the violent actions of Russian Army troops in Chechnya. Putin is trying to use superior might to solve a problem that is really a political issue in order to get some degree of payback for the Russian's defeat in the '90s. The Russian attitude about foriegn involvement in Chechnya has always been "mind your own business", and many people think that the reason is because of widespread human rights abuses being performed there by Russian troops. The Russian military has a reputation as being corrupt, brutal, and ruthless in dealing with the citizens of Chechnya. In a sense, Putin declaring that the Chechnyan problem is part of the "War on Terror" has created a self fulfilling prophecy. What began as cadres of rebels has become a series of terrorist groups with ties to organizations such as Al Queda. I can understand your anger, but there is no solution in this situation using military might, and every terrorist killed from Chechnya serves as a rallying call for Muslim extremists around the world to fight the Christian occupation in Chechnya by whatever means necessary. I don't know what will be done in Chechnya, but an attitude of revenge will just instigate more terrorist attacks.
     
  22. It's not like the Chechnyans are going to sit down and have a chat with the Russians about the whole problem. Both sides are way to pissed off at each other for resolve to be brought about via talks.
     
  23. There is a self proclaimed goverment in exile led by the last president who was freely elected in Chechnya. The last two elections have been rigged to install Russian puppets. The big challenge in negotiations would be that Putin has declared all the rebels terrorists, regardless of whether or not they have commited atrocities against civilians. With the hard line Putin has declared against terrorists, it puts him in a situation of having no one to negotiate with. The moderates within Chechnya have been largely ignored or moved towards extremism over the last 5 years, and I really think the situation is only going to worsen. In order for anything to change, there would need to be drastic adjustments to the Russian Federation's policies. I don't see that happening.
     
  24. I forgot to mention, the "goverment in exile" is (I think) mostly made up of former Chechnyan goverment members in London. Putin has ignored any requests for talks with them, and has never contacted them since the Russians moved back into Chechnya in '99. Not a single government has accepted the results of the last election as valid.
     

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