I Think its retarded that...

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by LaCosaNostra, Dec 17, 2002.

  1. #1 LaCosaNostra, Dec 17, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Now this is just my personal opinion.

    The stats should show that it ran a 2.43 0-60. So what if it used different tires that were "cheater slicks" that werent street legal. This isn't www.superstreetcars.net this is supercars.net. This site really isn't all about street legal cars.

    The 800TT achieved a 2.43 0-60mph. RECORD IT.

    All the other cars out there have the same chance to use different tires that are more slick. Its their fault they don't.

    As It should be the 800TT goes 0-60mph in 2.43

    The new 1000TT will achieve an est. 0-60mph in 2.2 If you guys record it wrong and say "Oh, it used special tires that everyone else could use on their cars but fail not too..." then thats just plain gay.

    That is my personal opinion.

    BTW your figures are off. The car produces 833 @ 5400rpm hp and 903 lbs @ 4800rpm of torque do your research. its 0-100mph is also 5.5 secs.
     
  2. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    I respect your opinion, i think it's right. (and i hate ppl who make the argument "it got those times on slicks") <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  3. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    The people who say that it is using cheat slicks are the people who are just mad that it's one of the fastest street cars and not there piece of crap Ferrari,Porsche, and all the other piece of crap sport cars.
     
  4. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    What are you guys talking about?? Those tires are street legal. They just a have a little bit of tread.
     
  5. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    And if anyone comes back to ***** that the Twin turbo vette runs the 1/4 mile faster than any Viper alive, just know that the GIWASA GTSRR runs a 8.20
     
  6. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    No one other than Viper fans really care about it, it's just people are sick of People saying "The 800tt will kick this overpriced POS for less money." Sad thing is they are usually talking about cars like the Schuppan or the Merc CLK GTR.

    Cheater slicks are not legal in Europe, which is why they don't use them. Did the 800tt come with cheater slicks? No, you have to mod an already heavily modded car to achieve those times. Most people are interested in STOCK performance times. If I want to get to 60 quick, I'll go buy a 527 Hemi, it's not that hard. It didn't take much effort on John Hennesey's part to run a very small amount of boost from 2 turbos to an almost otherwise stock Viper (small amount of work done to brakes, wheels, and a bit of body work).

    Not everyone is interested in drag racing and Nascar style tracks. There's more to racing than that, and this Viper barely improves upon lap times of a stock Viper. That's right, read up on it. In the C&D supercar shootout, the Hennesey was able to outrun a bone-stock GTS ACR through a road course by a whopping .7 seconds. That's right, less than a full second ahead of a stock Viper. I cannot attest to the skill of the driver piloting the 800tt, but the stock Viper was driven by Larry Webster of C&D, while Hennesey got to choose any driver they liked.

    The problem with this car is that it is just too damn heavy. I mean the Viper is by no means a luxurious car, so why can't it shed the six or seven hundred pounds it needs so desperately? I imagine with the weight down to maybe 2900lbs the car would be amost untouchable.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the Hennesey Viper, I just don't like slicks (or comparing modified cars to stock production. The lingenfelter Vette is on this site for people to compare this to). The car is amazing for the money, but could anyone find me some times without slicks? I thought I read low 3s for 0-60 but I'm not sure.
     
  7. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    "you have to mod an already heavily modded car to achieve those times. "

    the 800tt is modded, but because it came from John Hennesseys' factory, it's considered stock (if it weren't, then ppl would say that many porsches are 'modded' or that merc AMG's are modded)

    "In the C&D supercar shootout"

    there's an old thread on this 800tt forum about that comparison, notice, that in that comparison most of the cars performance times were bad considering the weather.(it had rained) LOL, the fastest car in that comparison was the modded truck.


    "The problem with this car is that it is just too damn heavy"

    it weighs around 3400lbs. that's about the same as vettes, and F-body cars. But i do agree, if it weighed less it would be much faster. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  8. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    why did you use "your" at the end of the post when refering to the site's mistakes. hey buddy, there are many things wrong with this site so you might as well get used to it or leave.
     
  9. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    The 800tt isn't stock, because Hennesey is not a legal subsidiary of dodge and is not contracted by Dodge. AMG is a contracted by Merc to do the work, so it is stock.

    The Hennesey 800tt weighs 35xx lbs due to added weight of the body work, the extra parts required by the turbos and whatever else Hennesey did (can't remember off hand). The z06 weighs 30xx lbs, which is quite a big difference.

    I'm aware of the bad weather, but it wouldn't account for more than a second difference through the road course seeing the Viper ran the next day, and the weather wasn't exactly perfect either.
     
  10. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    2002 ZO6:
    Curb Weight: 3118 lbs

    (From May 2001; MOTORTREND)

    2001 GTS:
    Curb Weight: 3447 lbs

    2001 800tt:
    Curb Weight: 3450 lbs

    <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  11. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    Daimler Chrysler owns AMG? i thought that they had merged. or that is what my friend told me.
     
  12. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    The Dauer is a stock production car. The fastest one ever made<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A><A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  13. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    I use ET streets on my z28. So I guess after I beat someone in a race, I actually really didn't beat them because I was on slicks, although I was in front of them the whole time. lol. that's pretty damn stupid.
     
  14. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    Good for you, you haven't understood this post. No one's questioning the legality of cheater slicks, we're refferring to magazine testing. Magazines usually have a standard procedure when testing cars, which is the only reason they're relevant. As soon as they differ from regular tests, they loose their validity.

    1.9 0-60 for the Lingenfelter Vette? One Quetion: If you were to send a stock corvette to Lingenfelter, would it achieve those times when you got it back? The answer is a resounding "NO".

    Suppose I started a magazine. For all the cars I test bone-stock, the way they're supposed to be. All of a sudden I up the boost on a supra and runs a quicker 1/4 than a viper, is it a quicker car? Once again: NO.

    The sad thing is, the stats are available for these cars without slicks, yet people people always resort to these tests because the other ones aren't impressive enough. Not only that, they compare them to cars whose times were achieved the proper way.

    And it would be unfair to say cheater slicks are fully legal, because in most of Europe, they're not. Oh well, the Dauer is still faster than this on regular tires <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  15. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    "Magazines usually have a standard procedure when testing cars, which is the only reason they're relevant. As soon as they differ from regular tests, they loose their validity. "

    So because a mag uses regular street tires, the numbers they get are relevant, but if they use slicks they're not? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/confused.gif"></A>


    "1.9 0-60 for the Lingenfelter Vette? One Quetion: If you were to send a stock corvette to Lingenfelter, would it achieve those times when you got it back? The answer is a resounding "NO". "

    I'm pretty sure if you went to Lingenfelter, gave him $$$, and asked for the 427tt package, it would get 1.9sec. to 60. (why would it not?) Now maybe the car will never get 0-60 in 1.9seconds because of the driver, but that doesn't mean the car IS capable of that time.


    "All of a sudden I up the boost on a supra and runs a quicker 1/4 than a viper, is it a quicker car? Once again: NO. "

    um.....how can a car that runs a quicker 1/4 mile than another, not be faster?


    "The sad thing is, the stats are available for these cars without slicks, yet people people always resort to these tests because the other ones aren't impressive enough. Not only that, they compare them to cars whose times were achieved the proper way. "

    I have yet to see the times of the 800tt on regular tires, or even the 427tt vette on regular tires. (i have the issue the 427tt was tested in, and no where in it do they have the times of the 427tt on regular tires, so the times are not available)


    "the Dauer is still faster than this on regular tires "

    could you or someone else show me a link where the car was actually tested, or where it says the tires used on the car??

     
  16. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    I agree!
     
  17. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    okay, here we go...

    "So because a mag uses regular street tires, the numbers they get are relevant, but if they use slicks they're not? "

    For the sake of comparison to other cars, yes the numbers achieved with slicks are totally irrelevant. All cars should be tested in the same manner, other wise these comparisons mean absolutely nothing.


    "I'm pretty sure if you went to Lingenfelter, gave him $$$, and asked for the 427tt package, it would get 1.9sec. to 60. (why would it not?) Now maybe the car will never get 0-60 in 1.9seconds because of the driver, but that doesn't mean the car IS capable of that time."

    No it wouldn't, although Lingenfelter does spend money on tires, they aren't the cheater slicks. You'd have to add them yourself, and once again, you're modding an already modded car.

    "um.....how can a car that runs a quicker 1/4 mile than another, not be faster?"

    I meant Supras in general. People are continually saying that the Lingenfelter will out run everything on the road, and then point to times it can only achieve on slicks. That's like saying Supras (while using the example I provided above) are faster than the Viper, but the boost was increased to achieve this, wasn't it? Not quite fair. Don't tell me there's a difference between tires and boost, even changing the exhaust is modding.


    "I have yet to see the times of the 800tt on regular tires, or even the 427tt vette on regular tires. (i have the issue the 427tt was tested in, and no where in it do they have the times of the 427tt on regular tires, so the times are not available)"

    I don't know about the Vette, but I know Guibo has posted the times for the 800tt on stock Michelin Pilots. They're on this forum somewhere, and I belive it ran a mid to high 10 in the 1/4, and three point something 0-60.


    "could you or someone else show me a link where the car was actually tested, or where it says the tires used on the car??"

    I don't have any articles indicating where the Dauer has been tested, but I know it was tested on the stock performance tires that came with the car, which are legal everywhere. You might want to talk to Ajzahn about a test, he knows almost everything about it. It ran a top speed of 250 mph, but the test protocol was never officially published, so it could not be recognized by Guiness. When Jochen Dauer continues production of the 962 in 2003 (with improvements of course <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A> ) I imagine he will go about setting an official world record for top speed. I don't know about a drag race, but around a track I don't think anyone would try to claim the 800tt is faster.


     
  18. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    "For the sake of comparison to other cars, yes the numbers achieved with slicks are totally irrelevant. All cars should be tested in the same manner, other wise these comparisons mean absolutely nothing."

    yeah, i'll agree on that. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>


    "I don't know about the Vette, but I know Guibo has posted the times for the 800tt on stock Michelin Pilots. They're on this forum somewhere, and I belive it ran a mid to high 10 in the 1/4, and three point something 0-60. "

    Found them,
    Venom 800tt (street tires):
    0-60: 3.21
    1/4 mile: 10.71 @ 137.6 mph


    "but I know it was tested on the stock performance tires that came with the car, which are legal everywhere. "

    if that's the case, then the dauer kills the 800tt.

    800tt
    0-60: 3.21

    Dauer
    0-60: 2.6

    <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/sad.gif"></A> <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/sad.gif"></A>
     
  19. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    Yeah, the Dauer is faster, but one would expect as much from a street-legal Lemans car. I hope people start using the 800tts stats using regular tires. Slicks are pointless, it's almost as if some people think a 10 second 1/4 and 3.2 0-60 are something to be ashamed of. I hope someone finds some stats for the Lingenfelter without slicks.
     
  20. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    i'm not ashamed of a 10 second 1/4 and 3.2 0-60 car. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
    also, i don't think anyone ever tested the 427tt vette on street tires, so ppl will logically go with the slick #'s (but that car isn't on supercars.net)
    good conversation khari. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  21. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    I should sure hope not. for 170 000 USD this is one hell of a car.
    I thought they had also tested the 427tt on street tires, but if not well I guess there's not much else to reffer to. I would estimate a 2.8 0-60 and 10 flat in the 1/4 though.

    Yeah I enjoyed it to. Not often you can actually debate on this site without someone swearing up a storm because someone disagrees. Maybe I'll hang around this forum a little more, seems like a fun place<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  22. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    swearing up a storm, lol that's pretty funny.
     
  23. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    Why did I use the term "your"? Well lets take a look. When you talk to someone about something they own, run, manage, use, etc. You use the word your, as referring something they own, run, manage, use, etc. So when I said "Your" stats are wrong, I'm telling the people that run this site that they need to change things. Seeing as how I am a perfessional webdesigner, mistakes are not the prettiest things in a website.

    Questions or smart ass remarks that might come from this :

    "So you want them to fix all 900+ cars here?" :: Yes

    BTW you said why dont I leave? Because I use this site to know whats coming out. I know the stats are all #$%#ed up thats why I dont get my stats and specs from this site.

    It would take less then a week, for myself, to do all the research and find the "right" specs for 95% of the cars.

    - Don Dadda
     
  24. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    First off, I should say the 800TT would have a hard time beating a Dauer 962LM on a racetrack. But here are some things to keep in mind:

    1) Yes, the 800TT was marginally quicker than a stock Viper ACR in that C&D comparo. But any car that's quicker by any measure than a stock Viper ACR has got to be positively flying. Not only did it weigh more than the stock Viper ACR, it was shod with narrower rear tires (295mm vs. 335mm), and (being based on a '97 Viper) lacked the ABS brakes that the stock ACR had. Thus equipped, the 800TT was still a hair quicker than the 996TT driven by Le Mans and 24 Hours of Daytona Porsche specialist Hurley Haywood. Outrunning a 996TT driven by such a driver is no easy feat. Point of this? The 800TT is not a drag-only car.
    Witness that it was 1.2 seconds quicker on the tightest portion of the course than the much lighter, mid-engined Comptech Acura NSX. Which was shod with the same size tires, but wore some very performance-oriented rubber. BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD's, the same ones that allow a Mustang Cobra R to pull 1.02g on a skidpad. The 800TT was shod with some pretty standard Michelin Pilots. Certainly no one would mistake a Comptech NSX for a drag-only car.
    Also note that the Mosler MT900S Photon (also mid-engined) shod with Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position tires was a mere one *tenth* of a second quicker on the twisty road course portion. At 2,189 lbs, it carries only 61% of the weight of the 800TT. It was designed from the very beginning as a track-day type of car (whereas the 800TT is merely modified from an existing, fully type-approved road car). And it costs $40K more than the 800TT.
    With all of this in mind, the 800TT does rather well, and proves that it's not a one-trick (straightline) pony.

    2) The Dauer performance claims are utter rubbish. I've explained it elsewhere so I'll just cut & paste:
    "Regarding Dauer's quarter mile claim of 9-ish seconds:
    Hard to believe, considering an Audi R8 (3.3 lb/hp) on pure racing slicks can do no better than 10.3 seconds. The Dauer is also at 3.3 lb/hp, but (allegedly) did that 9.2-second time on street tires? Don't think so. 0-60 in 2.6 seconds? That's quicker than a Jaguar R3 Formula One car (0-60 in 2.71, 1.7 lb/hp). R&T did a test of the Benetton-BMW B186 (1.6 lb/hp in race trim, 1.3 lb/hp in qualifying trim), with Teo Fabi at the wheel. The best they could do was a 9.4-second quarter mile. With 410mm-wide pure racing slicks. All of this should make the Dauer's time sound pretty suspect, no?"

    The figures attributed to the Dauer were probably from an engineering prototype, built long before the regular production run which has only recently begun. And no one outside of Dauer can verify them. Word has it that the regular production customer cars will be putting out some 70 hp less than what's been stated thus far.
     
  25. Re: I Think its retarded that...

    From May 2001 issue of MOTORTREND (where the 800tt is on the front cover)

    2001 GTS:
    Curb Weight: 3447 lbs

    2001 800tt:
    Curb Weight: 3450 lbs

    So is this the correct weight of the 800TT or is it around 35xx something??? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/confused.gif"></A> <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/confused.gif"></A>
     

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