International best engine awards.

Discussion in '2000 Honda S2000' started by Honda rulez, Sep 16, 2002.

  1. #1 Honda rulez, Sep 16, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  2. Re: International best engine awards.

    Duhrr...that's because
    1) Those awards are based in Europe and
    2) they don't get too many American cars over there in general. The overall characteristics of American cars has more to do with it than engine technology, design, and execution.

    If American engines are so bad, why have so many foreign cars used American engines?
     
  3. Re: International best engine awards.

    No no, the judges of this award thing were editors from "car and driver," "Motortrend," "Automobile,"......etc......it's based on 40 car magazines around teh world, not just Europe.

    Name me some foreign cars that use American engines, plz.
     
  4. Re: International best engine awards.

    Yeah, but what percentage of the judges were European?


    European cars with American engines?

    AC Cobra (do you think the AC Ace would've stood a chance against Ferrari?)

    TVR:
    Griffith
    Tuscan
    Vixen
    Granatura
    (and anything with a "Rover V8" pretty much derives its power via Buick)

    Sunbeam Tiger

    Iso Grifo:
    Rivolta
    Lele, and
    Fidia

    Bizarrini 5300 GT Strada

    Jensen Interceptor

    DeTomaso:
    Pantera
    Deauville
    Longchamp
    Gaura
    Vallelugna
    Mangusta

    Qvale Mangusta

    Bristol Fighter

    Ultima CanAm GTR

    Stealth B6

    Koenigsegg CC

    And there's probably dozens more than even I don't know about yet.


    Not to mention the countless home-brewed conversions (of BMW's, Datsun Z-Cars, etc.) that use American engines.
    Now, how many American cars use European engines?
     
  5. Re: International best engine awards.

    Facel Vega HK500
    Allard J2
    Monteverdi 375 (and the entire Monteverdi lineup, really)

     
  6. Re: International best engine awards.

    Some more European cars with American engines:

    Facel Vega HK500
    Allard J2
    Monteverdi 375 (and the entire Monteverdi lineup, really)
     
  7. #7 Honda rulez, Sep 25, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: International best engine awards.

    here's the link to teh judges page: http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/judges.html
    remember, Honda is also a big winner, so it doesn't matter if there are more european judges or not.

    The cars in ur list, non of them got into teh best engine awards.
     
  8. #8 Guibo, Sep 27, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: International best engine awards.

    "remember, Honda is also a big winner, so it doesn't matter if there are more european judges or not."

    Sure it does. Hondas are sold in more places, including in Europe, whereas American cars are sold mainly in North America.
    It's like judging movies. Sure, American movies are likely to do well in a country that reflects the movies' taste, namely America. The Academy Awards reflect that. In Europe, there's a greater chance than a European film will win the major European film awards than an American film. Simple.
    Besides, look at that list. 24 European judges against 6 American judges. Gee...looks like good odds, LOL.



    "The cars in ur list, non of them got into teh best engine awards."

    I never said they did. I simply said many European cars have used American engines. You asked which ones. So I listed a few. I answered your question. Follow?
    The point is, if American engines were so bad, would so many foreign cars use them? I doubt it.
    By the same token, just because American engines don't do well in a massively European-flavored competition, does that mean they suck?


    Here's another one set to use Ford's V8:
    http://www.v8register.net/subpages/MGX80.htm

    To be used in their race car as well:
    http://www.mg-sportcars.co.uk/X80%20Gossip.htm
     
  9. Re: International best engine awards.

    Are u saying that teh European judges are just helpinh japanese and European cars? I dun't think so, there's no discrimination or such thing in kind of award stuff. The judges based their votes on wihc engine is more high tech, more efficiency, more mpg, and stuff like that. ON of teh main reasons why those cars use american engines is becuz they are cheap to buy! That's the biggest benefit. TVR had already changed from buying engines from Americans to making their own engines. I don't mean American engines suck, but it's just that people keep saying Honda's engines suck! I hope u understand.
     
  10. Re: International best engine awards.

    TVR make their own engines dumbass

    And some of the best 4.5 V8 Cerbera faster than a Viper woth almost half the liters
     
  11. Re: International best engine awards.

    What Guibo is saying makes a lot of sense. American cars are primarily based in North America. Honda gets a lot more exposure to European countries. The judging rules clearly state that the scores are SUBJECTIVE to PERSONAL PREFERENCE, just like the Academy Awards. He's not saying the judges were consciously discriminating against American cars. He's simply saying 1: Culture and 2: Exposure would logically play a BIG rule in thier decision making. And as usual Guibo made a very, very good point.

    My PERSONAL PREFERENCE would be the LS6 Corvette engine. It has 400 ft/lbs of torque, 405 horsepower, gets 28 mpg highway and it's very lightweight for it's size. Those numbers dwarf many, if not all of the engines that received a placement.
     
  12. #12 SeansVette, Sep 27, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  13. Re: International best engine awards.

    The models I listed above use FORD V8's DUMBASS. Look it up.

    Speaking of TVR Cerbera's, it's been said their engines are made from "an interesting alloy of chocolate and cheese."

    From the mouth of a Cerbera owner:
    "The race Tuscan engine produces 440BHP, but it's only as reliable as any
    racing engine. ie. they get rebuilt twice a year (work out the mileage on
    that, and you'll be thinking that the Speed 6 is reliable).

    The best thing to do is to throw away (or sell to somebody who needs one)
    the Cerbie engine, and install a small block Chevy. For the price Danny
    spent on his RR upgrade, you can get a turnkey engine from the US that will
    give you a real and reliable 420BHP. If you spend a bit more, you can get
    550 without too much trouble (they're the engines that people install in
    their Ultima's.

    And yes. It'll fit in the Cerbie engine bay. It's quite a compact engine. If
    you're interested, talk to Mike Sweeney at Raven. He was advertising the
    conversion a while ago. Not sure how many he's done, but he's at least
    worked out how to make it fit, and work."


    Now, I'd rather leave the issue of Cerbera reliability (or lack thereof) in the engine department alone for the moment. If you want to pursue it, just say the word. Either way, you'll understand why just about no car manufacturer wants to even touch a TVR engine.
     
  14. Re: International best engine awards.

    The models I listed above use FORD V8's DUMBASS. Look it up.

    Speaking of TVR Cerbera's, it's been said their engines are made from "an interesting alloy of chocolate and cheese."

    From the mouth of a Cerbera owner:
    "The race Tuscan engine produces 440BHP, but it's only as reliable as any
    racing engine. ie. they get rebuilt twice a year (work out the mileage on
    that, and you'll be thinking that the Speed 6 is reliable).

    The best thing to do is to throw away (or sell to somebody who needs one)
    the Cerbie engine, and install a small block Chevy. For the price Danny
    spent on his RR upgrade, you can get a turnkey engine from the US that will
    give you a real and reliable 420BHP. If you spend a bit more, you can get
    550 without too much trouble (they're the engines that people install in
    their Ultima's.

    And yes. It'll fit in the Cerbie engine bay. It's quite a compact engine. If
    you're interested, talk to Mike Sweeney at Raven. He was advertising the
    conversion a while ago. Not sure how many he's done, but he's at least
    worked out how to make it fit, and work."


    Now, I'd rather leave the issue of Cerbera reliability (or lack thereof) in the engine department alone for the moment. If you want to pursue it, just say the word. Either way, you'll understand why just about no car manufacturer wants to even touch a TVR engine.
     
  15. Re: International best engine awards.

    I agree with that. All I'm trying to say is, Honda's engines don't suck, this is what people saying.
     
  16. Re: International best engine awards.

    omg this coming from a mod. ....sigh.... im goign to get my self in "trouble" here.

    thats a joke man......dont take it as a flame, but what u said goes against the principles of the auto world.

    as to american engines being in many foreign cars, there strong point is not technology and all that junk stated, its affordabiltiy and availability, come on. u mod this stuff......where is something like this? amazing....u may also want to check, in the case of a healthy portion of the companies u listed, they all have aome american invlolvment or something.

    and next, if thats the game u want to play, ..... maybe u want to check out the number of american cars which are currently RUNNING (and that is capitals for a reason) with japanese engines right now. and dont come with the rason that the american companies own some shares in those particular companies .....as the reason to say that they really are american engines...come on now....
    im going from mad ...to insane....to all out depressed, and i have been on this place for 2 hours now/
     
  17. Re: International best engine awards.

    If foreign engines are so bad, why did Ford have to go with a Toyota V-6 in their Probe to get it to run with a Mitsubishi inline-4 a.k.a. DSM (turbo... thus the Toyota had 2 more cylinders to compensate for thier choice to go N/A)?

    What does it matter what country it's given in? The reason you don't find many American cars in Europe, is either 1 of 2 things:

    1) They don't WANT American cars
    2) American Maunfacturers don't care enough to put the seat on the other side of the cabin.

    Both these aspects probably play a role. American cars sell in America, not much of anywhere else. Why buy a car that's twice as powerful, twice as expensive, 1/3 as fuel efficient, breaks down more often, and has to be converted when foreign cars do more with less, cost less, and don't have to be converted? I respect American cars, but they aren't yet suited for foreign markets, nonetheless, American cars ARE kind of making progress. No-one in a foreign country needs room to seat 38, so that excludes all the Suburban assault vehicles. There aren't enough straightways to let the torque have at it, so that excludes big-displacement vehicles. HOWEVER! American suspension is improving, leaving room to lay on the gas while turning, something until recently, American cars couldn't do for $hit. American cars ARE getting there, but they're made too much for American roads and consumers (as they should be) to really suit the needs and wants of foreign markets.

    One more question (and this one's not rhetorical): What foreign cars use american motors? I honestly don't know and am quite curious.
     
  18. Re: International best engine awards.

    One of my many Dream Cars...the kind of car you would see at a Concourse D'Elegance, constantly being poured over, and ogled by the many classic car afficionados attending..the kind of car that could quicken your pulse in an instant, and leave you desiring a long, winding open road..the kind of car that if you were dreaming about classic Mercedes, would stick with you, and leave you begging for more curves, and long, open highways for many dreams to come...the kind of car that with a simple turn of the ignition and rev of the engine would inspire images of LeMans, or many a previous European GP race, hugging the hairpin turns, blasting down the straightaways, shifting through the gears with precision, and smiling with every crescendo of the RPM's
     
  19. Re: International best engine awards.

    If i'm not mistaken the new GM 4.2 I6 just won a best engine award, as well as the Nissan 3.5 v6, not this honda
     
  20. Re: International best engine awards.

    There's no point of arguying, just visit the site I've provided in my furst post and see for urself.
     
  21. Re: International best engine awards.

    This engine is great becuz of many reasons.

    First, i breaks many world records, such as one of the highest revving engines in the world for stock cars, highest hp/L ratio while still meets teh california emission law.

    It's also very reliable and fuel economy if u don't drive teh car hard.

    Seriously, Honda could have used the new accord's engine, or the Oddyssey's engine and put it into the S2000. Teh fuel economy would also be much better (the odyssey averages 27.5 mpg, high/city combined, but remember, this van weighs at over 4000lbs, and the drag coefficient is higher too), and it would have quite a lot of torque, too. Something like 245lb/ft of torque with 240hp. Oh yea, the engine would fit into the S2000's engine bay, remember, the Z3, which is about the same size, can fit a 3.0 Inline 6 (which takes up more space than a V6), there's no reason that the S2000 can't fit it.
     
  22. Re: International best engine awards.

    And be at the sametime as reliable as Honda? I dont think so
     
  23. Re: International best engine awards.

    What about the new rotarys? I'm not arguing. I just want to know how they are. I know they are efficient and all. I think the RX8 has a higher hp/l than this doesn't it?
     
  24. Re: International best engine awards.

    Yeah it does, I think its 192 Bhp per liter and the S2k its 125
     
  25. Re: International best engine awards.

    I wonder if people go around saying the S2000 sucks now, the Rx8 has a higher bhp/l therefore its better, and then guys come and say no the camaro is better, and then people come and say no the mustang is better....
     

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