is there any race BMW cant win?

Discussion in '1960 BMW 700 RS' started by 2998ccCSL, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. lol... i had no idea the 700 was used in this kind of race! most interesting.
  2. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    yes. Formula 1.

  3. Re:
    is there any race BMW cant win?

    Formula One, European DTM Series, World Rally Championship, 24hr LeMans etc.

    What do they actually win?
  4. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    lol... excuse me... i meant compete...

    hey! they did good last year.. this year was a fluke!
  5. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    They never won lemans??? What about the MClaren F1 (Fina car I believe) that swept the floor at lemans??? Damn, I know back a couple years when they had their car in lemans and it was doing good but stupid crashes screwed a couple of times.

    And God do I hope that they win Formula 1. Next year will be something. I can not wait.
  6. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Well... as a huge Ferrari enthusiast I must say... BMW will most likely trail in the Ferrari dominated realm of F1 for years to come... sorry. Ferrari sells their cars almost solely to support their racing. Until BMW shows this kind of commitment to its racing program, it will always be second best (well, along with McLaren-Mercedes, they're both equaly capable, give or take). About the McLaren F1... it only used the base S70 Bavarian powerplant, it was still HEAVILY modified by McLaren. To credit BMW with the McLaren F1 is comparable to crediting Ford Motor Company with the Aston Martin Vanquish... not a chance in the world. Ferraris, Astons and McLarens are cars built out of passion and will always (as for as I can see) lead BMW in that respect. That's my rant, feel free to comment.
  7. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    lol, really, what exactly do they win?
  8. #8 MooSquad, Aug 7, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  9. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Yes that is true. BUT. It was only the BMW engine that the McLaren had. The rest was down to McLaren. The weight, chassis etc. If you would have put any high class production manufacturers engine in the McLaren F1, im pretty sure the results would have been very similar. (BMW do have the fastest F1 car out of the lot, but havnt been that successful. yet. just need to develop better strategies and practice.)

    Hey can someone please help me out here? McLaren was with BMW (with the McLaren F1, GT, Le Mans,and the rest) but when, how and why did they switch 2 mercedes benz (Formula 1 and the SLR). If anyone can help it would be cool.
  10. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Excuse me, the 6.1L BMW S70/2 DOHC V12 propelled the #59 Ueno Clinic McLaren F1 GTR to victory in the 24 Hour LeMans in 1995. BMW partly won but in the end it was still McLaren Cars Limited that really won it.

    The BMW Company won the 24 Hour LeMans in 1999 with the #15 Dell BMW V12 LMR driven by Pierluigi Martini, Yannick Dalmas and Joachim Winkelhock.
  11. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    mercedes owns like 70% of mclaren.
  12. Re:

    Another one they can't win...Rally
  13. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    So does that mean, mercedes has rights over mclaren? In that case, the SLR may not be the only joint venture these 2 supercar giants come out with!!!

    lookin forward 2 it!!
  14. Re: Re:

    I dont think BMW have a rally team...... =S
  15. Re: Re:

    BMW was in rally racing in the 80's. They used the M1 I believe and I have seen some 2002 (the BMW model, not the year) rally cars but I am not sure if they were factory backed or if they were private entries. BMW has won the Paris-Dakar Rally a total of 6 times in the bike catergory. Their diesel powered BMW "X-Raid" X5's came in 4th and 8th respectively in perhaps the toughest off-road race out there.
  16. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    How about the ongoing horsepower and super-sedan war between Audi, BMW, Cadilac, and Mercedes-Benz? Who gives a rat's ass about the 500HP M5? There will be so much computer control on the damn thing that you wont be able to drive it... The CTS-V "Plus" and Audi RS6 will just hammer down on the Bimmer, and Mercedes wont be far behind in bringing the hurt.

    Did anyone even read the Motor Trend article with the comparision between the 545iL and STS V8? A pre-production Caddy beat up on a car that has allready been out for a year! Bimmer is losing ground in almost every segment of the industry, mostly becuse of iDrive, exterior design, and computer nannys inside the car...

    On the racing standpoint, BMW (last I herd) was having mild success in the Speedvision Cup... Racing against RSX Type-S', Mazda Protoges, Civic Type-Rs, and Lexus IS300s...
  17. Re: Re:

    Lol. i cant believe BM was in the rally @ all. I cant imagine BMW actually backing it but then again i could be wrong again!
  18. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    BMW is one of the kings of the road. All this crap about, well bmw dint win dtm or anything thats bull. Bmw dominated with their m3 coupe in the 80's it beat the mercedes 190E, they had wicked performance cars that no one had. Yea theyr not competing anymore, but that is for their own reasons, i bet if you would take a nice a M3 it would have tremendous success in the DTM arena. Only Opel Audi and Mercedes are racing. Bmw makes some of the best and most reliable motorcycles especially with their flat twin engines. Theyr cars are the best as to everything as far as i am concerned, in my country there are old 3's series engnies using the diesiel engines and they are very reliable and ok performance. The only sophistication that should be done to a car is the electroinc in the engine, eveything should be controlled by human, and not by some Ai shit.
  19. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Well my friend, you are one of a kind. Yes its true BMW was a king of the road, but that was some time back. Right now, they are actually losing ground in most segments of the industry. The X5 is still coming as king on the road, the Z8 was a dream, the only problem was weight, the Z4 is still holdin its ground, the 6 series looks promising but thats about it. BMW are starting to loose some respect 'coz of the exterior styling on many new up and coming cars. And its good you have your own opinion; "The only sophistication that should be done to a car is the electroinc in the engine, eveything should be controlled by human, and not by some Ai shit" but i think its best if you let the engineers and techies worry about that, they know whats best for the car. If there was a great demand for non A.I controlled cars, manufacturers would strive to make them. (and no one really is interested in BMW motorcylces anyway) i mean i could say, BMW dont make trucks or lorries or buses and all that. thats why its plus theres many older older generation mercs around too.
  20. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    uh, dude? BMW just gave McLaren an engine. Ford owns Aston, and therefore should have all the credit for the Vanq.
  21. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    how can someone say that BMW controls the driver with computers? BMW has always givin the option of not using them.. thats why bimmers are drivers cars and mercs and audis and luxury cars.. dont group it cause its luxurious, high end, german brand. the looks are disputed over, but not everyone hates them.. as far as engineering goes they still lead the pack, and they put really strict rules on themselves for seemingly no reason at all!

    i used to wonder why BMW didnt make every vehicle under the sun, like their two main competetors do. why they would give up a market to their compedetors. why? because they have imposible to meet standards. the end result is a car that comes as closer to achieving the "ultimate driving machine" then any other manufacture. they are *not* falling behind.
  22. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    well that is based on your american economy. come down in europe or in the ballkans, the only cars wich are bought for what they offer in everything is bimmers very old and brand new and same with mercedes very old like the W124 chassis cars and brand new. japanese cars like kia(shit) and some other are also a bit frequent. i have seen the only american cars imported here by people, thers some escalades like 2 in the whole country, a pt cruiser, 3 chryslers american, including my dads. the people in america never buy cars for their long reliablility because every year they buy a new car, especially if the car is better than the one that they have. In europe people buy cars for their honorable reliability. and what if the bimmers are heavy. thats what a luxury car is supposed to be, so you can ride and never feel a bump. In europe, the most bought cars are bimmers , benz , renault, fiat, ford, nissan, toyota, and some hondas. i dont know what challanges bmw in the american market to say that bmw is better than the american cars. but bmw is way more reliable. also the car has to be low maintance......
  23. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    Im sorry to say this but BMW do not lead the pack. Sure they offer more control over their cars without any (or minimal) computer control and the normal gearing is manual (usually) and so forth, but they are failing in many departments. Sure not everyone will agree with me but it is true. With the release of a few new series's their reputations is deminishing. The only respectable cars that are being or to be produced or have been recently are the: X5 (the X3 is almost a copy of the X5) 6 series, Z4, Z8, M3 and the standard 3 series, M5 and standard 5 series.

    I know theres alot of speculation about BMW or M sport bringing out a 500/550 hp engine V10 in the new m5 in 2005 BUT i mean, the competition is well ahead. In the end of 2003, AMG have brough out the 6.5 V12 with 612bhp and now M will do this in 2005.

    AMG already have the 6.0 litre in the Chrysler ME 4 12 which if you check for yourself will see is one of the worlds best performers in all categories. The last great engine BMW had was the ones in the McLaren F1, F1 GT's, F1 LM and so forth, but that was back in 1997. I really hope BMW will do something similar soon.

    Then theres the Maybach (which was a competitor to the Rolls Royce Phantom from BMW, but i dont need to tell you what the result of it was.)

    The BMW's attempt @ the Rolls Royce phantom was almost appauling (i know that many people would hate me for saying that) but taking a prestigious company like Rolls and creating a car like that with a Rolls badge thats very bad. Also what they did to the mini was awful. They threw away the whole concept of the mini. I mean its almost the same size as a VW Beetle! BMW have made countless mistakes and dont seem to learn from them.

    BMW have super engineering, but its going, from what it seems into more or less the wrong areas @ the moment.
  24. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    you mentioned every one but the 7. the 7 which contains a motor that the engineering community calls a marvel and has won awards in the field of engineering.

    surely, DC can take a 6.5L twin turbo v12 and make tons of horsepower from it. big deal. BMW competes on that level making 100hp/L, natural aspiration, and lightweight technology.. you base engineering prowess on how much HP is generated, and its foolish.

    speculation on a 500/550 hp v10? its happened! its coming out next year. put 10psi of TT boost in that and see if it doesnt make 612HP!

    the RR phantom is freakin great. your right, many people will disagree with you there. BMW has taken the RR automobile and brought it into the 21st century without taking away its traditions.. your critisizim of the Mini will lead you no where.. the Mini is quickly becoming the more popular of the two (Mini/Beetle), and is already a favorite at autoshows.. yes it adds size and weight to the original, but it also add more power, more safty, more fuction, while retaining fun, and ultimately this adds up to a car that sells.

    edit: they are mistakes in your mind, but BMW sales couldnt be higher.
  25. Re: is there any race BMW cant win?

    BMW is only a highly reguarded marque because it IS BMW... BMW could sell their litttle shit-box Z3s in the United States for nearly $45,000 when they were no more than a Miata with a I-6. BMW continues to overcharge on all of their vehicles, which offer 3/4 of the performance and value of their compeditors.

    Take, for example, the 2004 M3 vs the 2005 C6 Corvette Z51. The M3 stickers at nearly $56,000...While the Corvette, which beats the Bimmer in every performance department as well as matching interior quality, costs only $50,000. One could argue that they are in different classes, but when you think about it, the back seats in the M3 are so useless that you really can count the car as a two-seat coupe. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, BMW is hugely overrated. Ive driven several different models: 2000 Z3, 2003 330Ci, and the 2003 X5. Although each model was nice, and had a great drive, I came away dissapointed... None offered the promised "ultimate driving expirence" that BMW flaunts so often...

    And in terms of reliability, I have herd good and bad things. Obviously, it is no wheres near as companies like Toyota and Honda, but, may not be as high as companies such as Hyundai and Chevrolet. I can guarantee you, 110% that a GM small-block V8 will outlast any BMW engnine out there...And in the long run, cost less to maintain and given the right model, outperform that engine.

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