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Discussion in 'European Cars' started by PandaBeat, Apr 27, 2006.
Please try to find a gayer pic of Clarkson.
A better combination would be Italian styling, German powerplant and Japanese Electricals.
german powerplant ?
"Screw the definition of effeciency...who has the full answer to that?"
Apparently adenauer does, since he's so willing to dismiss out of hand any other possible measurements of efficiency (which is what we're talking about, in terms of what is desirable in an engine).
"But you choose to ignore that, so you can prove him 'wrong' with little details, what he HAS to concede and what not."
No, we were talking about efficiency. In that regard, all of the other engines I mentioned are better than the Ferrari V8.
"Contrary to your statement, it does tell you that the engine will rev high, have little low end torque, etc. etc.... ('the feel of the engine')."
Wait, are we driving cars or are we driving engines? Since when is having little low end torque a desireable feeling? If you want to take that argument to its logical end, why not just have a massive single turbo like a Supra engine (which will crap all over the Italian V8 for hp/l "efficiency")?
OK, the feeling of high revs is good. That makes the S2000's engine, at +500 rpm over the Ferrari V8 better in that regard. The CBR600's 15000 rpm redline also shades the Italian V8 here too.
"Also, who cares if Bizzarini made that statement. Its his personal opinion, proves nothing, cant be discussed. It could be false for all i know. Also, it was a long time ago."
Oh sure it can be discussed. We're doing it right now. "False?" So you're implying I made it up?
Apparently, with the plethora of Italian (and British) marques that have used "low tech" American V8's throughout the decades (and some still are), he's not alone in his personal opinion.
"Its nothing to be ashamed of, just a different philosophy (and engineering capability?). Your motoring tradition is basically trucks and hot rods. Stop denying the obvious!"
Engineering capability...haha. That is like saying that since Italy has yet to put a man on the moon, or sent a man in space and back twice within a week on a relatively shoestring budget, that they *can't*.
"It befits our view of how a European/Italian sportscar should be....for this purpose (assuming we agree on this: to propel an Italian styled, relatively lightweight, preferably mid engined, Rwd sportscar) it is, in our view, superior to an American v8."
"Superior"? I think you mean "preferrable." On that count, you and I are not far off (hint: go read my first post in this thread). I prefer that Italian sports cars have Italian engines. But that doesn't mean I have to be so close-minded to other viewpoints. God forbid anyone (gasp!) mess with tradition!
Original Griffith had a all american Ford V8. Marvelous car.
u a hawks fan?
americans can make good reliable powerplants
LSX motors are some of the most reliable, powerful engines ever built. The design may be less complex, but it lends itself to reliability. The one thing you are all forgetting, is that most ferraris are driven very seldom. And still have horrible reliability. There are millions of ls1s, ls6s and ls2s driven daily. They can rack up 100K miles without any major repairs very easily. When was the last time a ferarri did that? Pushrods and rocker arms are simpler than long timing belts or chains, with all their tensioner and idler pulleys. Its apples to oranges. They sound different, they deliver power different, and cost vastly different amounts. How much is a new engine for an F430? I can get a brand new LS7 for 12K. Dry sump, aluminum block and heads, forged pistons and titanium con rods, all its missing is an overly complex valvetrain. It all adds up to personal preference. But if you look at it in terms of cost and reliability, American pushrod engines really can't be beat.
didnt read thread, but Amerkan power, German ninjaneering, italian looks/sound.
GT-R overall. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/grin.gif"></A>
ok, i read the thread:
To the moron saying ferrari engines are better:
The SEVEN LITER ls7 vs the ferrari f430 engine
LS7=far more potential
LS7=less than the cost of a crankshaft
LS7=more fuel efficient
LS7=more power, stock
LS7=far more torque over a far larger range
seriously, outside of possibly sound, and maybe philosophy, how is the LS7 not a far, far superior engine in every way? Pretty much every company on the planet is envious of GMs engines.
I want an amerikan car with italian spontaneous combustion. Too bad they fixed the F150 cruise control.
"didnt read thread"
Then do us all a favor and don't post in it.
I will kill you and your family.
I will shoot you in the kneecap with S&W .500 with extra large grain rounds for a muzzle velocity of 1543 feet per second to make sure you and your leftist friends know not to joke with me. I am a very serious person.
I'd love an Italian bodied car with an S7TT motor stuffed in it.
... made a perfect combo. just think about the de Tomaso Pantera and the ISO Grifo.
I think that´s it.
no need to argue
I will fill your house with mustard gas while you sleep with your cousin.
You aren't tough. Stop it.
youre such a moran.
it works out for some cars.
whats wrong with a ferrari v12/v8? i don't understand!
Italians can make awesome engines by them self, america help is not needed