Jay Leno drives the Tesla

Discussion in 'American Cars' started by RockaForte, Jul 9, 2007.

  1. This is one of the few times I think you're wrong. What I meant by a crutch is that Hybrids are not a permanent solution. Whether or not they're "better"(which I don't think they are) is of no consequence in the long haul. Even if there is going to be oil for a lot longer than the libs want us to think(which I believe to be true) it won't last forever. Therefore a Hybrid is only going to help us make it last longer. Electricity is something that is made from any number of sources, and must be made for many other purposes than merely cars. We'll ALWAYS have to make it, and it can be made from all kinds of shit. In other words our electricity supply will never run out, and oil will. So Electricity is the long term solution.

    The only way I can see hybrids working forever is if we make Ethanol or biofuels to run the hybrids. I don't think that's going to be NEARLY as energy efficient as simple piping the electricity straight in. think about growing the plants, harvesting, refining, shipping it all over the place... Just doesn't seem like it's going to be more efficient at all.
     
  2. Not exactly.

    Only if they are over capacity and have to use coal or some shit to fill in the gaps.
    I did a rough estimate, and to charge up a Tesla all year is about the same as heating and cooling your home for a year with electricity.

    The only issue is if they instantly sold like a million of them.

    More houses are built every year then there are Teslas on the road, so according to that logic we should stop building houses or just not use AC or electric furnaces anymore, right?
     
  3. But power companies can more easily manage the pollution they generate supplying the extra power for a million cars (arbitrary number) than a million owners could if they continued to drive petrol vehicles.
     
  4. You probably also don't like to play with R/C cars.

    And I really don't have the time to type up all I want to disagree with SaabJohan on this one. This is one case you're way off the mark.
     
  5. I love R/C cars.
     
  6. No you cannot drive "the shit out of it for around 160 miles". Take it to for example autobahn and the battery runs out after around 30 minutes or 100 km.

    1200 kg is very heavy considering that the same car with an internal combustion engine weigh about 700 kg.

    Battery powered cars are very limited, so has it alwyas been it it will stay that for a long time into the future.
     
  7. Why don't you get your facts straight first!

    Internal combustion engines (or external combustion engines) are currently superior to all other options in the areas where they are used. For the moment internal combustion engines can even beat fuel cells when it comes to fuel efficiency in cars, not to mentioned cost and weight to power ratio.

    A typical gasoline engine found in car can operate with an efficiency higher than 30%, a turbodiesel easily exceeds 40% and higher maximum efficiencies are possible. This is usually not that interresting though, as today the main problem with internal combustion engine si that we use them at part load where their efficiency is much lower than the peaks at +30-40%.

    "The internal combustion engine needs to die in everyday life."
    You're not the first person to say something like this. But these statements usually comes from peoply with very little knowledge on the subject.

    By the way, do you know that in for example the United States, most of the electricity is generated from fossil fuels. This can be done in coal fired power plants which operates with an efficiency of around 40%. Before this electricity finds its end user there are also additional losses of about 8%. The distribution losses are in other words higher for electricity than for a liquid fuel. The current efficiency for a nuclear reactor is even smaller, it's just a few percent, perhaps we should stop using that technology too then?
     
  8. We can make liquid or gaseuos fuels from a large number of sources that can be used to power internal combustion engines (why do people always forget that?). It's just that, today, these options can't compete with the low prices of oil based fuels.

    In the future, most likely we will see some kind of combined plants making diesel, methanol, hydrogen and other similar fuels from biomass while they also produce heat for heating. This makes the total efficiency of the plant very high, any kind of biomass can be used, and the amount of fuel produced per mass biomass is very high.

    Even if burning biomass to create electricity, and run electric cars on that energy is more energy efficient than converting biomass to fuel and to use that in combustion engines or fuel cells I still think the latter will hold the majority of the market simply because it offer better all around performance.
     
  9. No, electric cars won't get that much lighter (unless you compromise its range). The capacity of batteries in relation to their mass haven't seen a huge improvement lately nor is a huge improvement to be expected in the hear future.

    The hybrid solution is lighter than the electric, the battery used can be a a lot lighter (for example Prius battery is 50 kg compared to Tesla roadster battery at 450 kg), if you use a bettery at all (there are other solutions too). We can infact make a high performance hydrid powertrain with a mass that is less than the battery of the Tesla roadster, not to mention that we easily outperform the Tesla roadster since we can reach higher outputs without suffering from a short range.

    Even if you usually don't drive more than 200 miles a day there are days you do drive more than that, and then the electric car isn't up to the task. With the hybrid powertrain there is on the other hand the possebility to use the electric motor only under short trips and then charge the car just like an electric car. But when the full power or the range of the internal combustion engine is needed it's ready to start.

    Compared to an all electric car a hybrid doesn't need such a powerful motor. The engine can be made less powerful at the cost of some high speed range.
     
  10. "1200 kg is very heavy considering that the same car with an internal combustion engine weigh about 700 kg."


    Who gives a shit on what the #$%# it was based on?

    1200kgs is NOT "VERY HEAVY".
     
  11. #36 SaabJohan, Jul 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Why don't you ask the tobacco companies if smoking kills or the oil companies if the use of fossil fuels leads to global warming too?

    Obviously a maker of electric vehicles will claim that their electric cars are the better solution. Then ask an ethanol producer and they claim ethanol is the way to go... I wouldn't expect anything else.

    Studies on the subject are however not so clear about the advantages. Yes, removal of pollution in some big citeis can be an advantage for electric cars (but also possible with hybrids), but CO2 wise it's currently not the best solution. Internal combustion engines are also becoming cleaner and cleaner, so in a few years pollution from new cars may not be a big issue.

    If charged with electricity from a modern coal fired powerplan the CO2 emissions from the Tesla Roadster is around 200 gram/km, basically similar to the CO2 emissions of Lotus Elise. This is based on that a coal fired powerplant produces about 1000 gram CO2 per kWh, 8% grid losses and a assumed 90% charging efficiency.
     
  12. For a car that should be able to weigh in at about 700-800 kg that is heavy. Had they based their car on for example a VW Golf, it had been a 2 ton Golf by now.
     
  13. 1200kgs, in a car, is not "VERY HEAVY". Stop being so dense.
     
  14. It all depends what you compare with. If you compare it to other cars with similar performance, construction method and class it's quite heavy. If you compare it with a Cadillac Escalade it's quite light but who whould make such a comparison?
     
  15. Huh, then compare it to cars with similar performance and tell me that it's "VERY HEAVY"... FFS, it weights 200Kgs LESS than a Saturn Sky or a Pontiac Solstice and performance-wise it WIPES the floor with them...
     
  16. It is very heavy for being based off of a lotus elise.
     
  17. I dunno about that last paragraph. I completely understand how using some sort of "normal" fuel is more convenient... However in a world full of tree hugging communist hippies I just don't see it happening. It's simply too large an amount of energy to throw away for such a small reason.

    One easy solution is that people could just outright rent "long distance" automobiles for use when long trips are required. Since a car rental infrastructure already exists everywhere it would be a very small change to make in peoples lifestyles.

    Although I will give you that having plug in hybrids that only kick on a(n) alcohol/diesel/whatever engine when the juice runs out is another solution for the distance issue. It could have a really gutless gasoline engine(for weight saving and efficiency) since on a long trip it's going to be all highway mileage anyway, for which a powerful engine is pretty well unnecessary.

    Either my solution for the distance issue or yours would work very well... And I'm guessing one of them will have to be chosen, because as I said I just don't see us being willing to toss away such incredible amounts of energy for a minor convenience. Unless we discover Cold Fusion or some other dirt cheap source of endless energy I don't see us continuing to use some sort of liquid fuel after the oil runs out.
     
  18. WHO THE #$%# CARES ON WHAT WAS BASED ON IF IT'S GOOD AND PERFORMS WELL, FOR #$%#S SAKE...
     
  19. CAPS CAPS!!!
     
  20. UGH:

    "The car is also very heavy, sure, 2600 pounds or 1170 kg may have been impressive if it was just any car but it's a car based on Lotus Elise and the Elise weigh in at about 720 kg. That's a weight increase of about 450 kg, or 62%. But this isn't all that strange given that the car has a 450 kg battery."



    Disregarding the vehicle on which the Tesla is based*, and also disregarding the weight of THAT vehicle**, can any of you argue that at 1170kgs or 2600lbs the Tesla is "very heavy"?



    * Who cares? it's irrelevant.
    ** WHO THE #$%# CARES
     
  21. SHUT IT PINKO COMMIE
     
  22. #$%#you leftist
     
  23. STFU DON'T MAKE ME GO ALL MAO TSE-TUNG ON YOUR COMUNIST FACE
     
  24. Teslas... there light
     
  25. You always say "most of" the electricity in the USA is from fossil fuels.
    Would you care to provide factual statistics for that? I'm curious.
     

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