Las Vegas shooting

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by IdoL, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. Coyotes, cougars, wild boars and the like don't exactly sit still, nor do they always go down with a single shot. And there might not be just that one.
  2. doesnt matter, doesnt seem like the semi autos that vanilla ice is talking about dont fit 30 rd mags. even a 10 rd mag for a long gun isnt really the kind of thing im afraid of. I think this vegas shooter had 50rd extended mags?

    Though I am curious, arent these tacticool ar15s ideal for shooting like a coyote who just hopped your fence? arent they built to be very accurate and pointable? is the only reason NOT to use them the fact that theyre expensive?
  3. yeah, theyd have to do something else

    the best way to attack a complex issue like this seems to be take care of the problem in front of you, which right now is guns which dont seem to serve any real purpose besides 'cool af'

    Lets worry about firebombing when it becomes an issue
  4. does anyone agree with this
  5. Somebody probably already said something similar but I just skimmed this thread but anyway this isnt the sort of situation where if one aspect were different this could've been avoided. Like stricter background checks or legality of certain types of weapons, or whatever else. Especially when we don't even know the guys motive to do all this.

    But since the topic is really gun violence in the US more than anything else, I think the big problem is American culture. Americans grow up in a culture that glorifies force as a way to solve problems, and glorifies the military and the soldier as the ultimate expression of what it means to be a man or even an honorable person. And I don't really think that's something that's going to change for a long time.
  6. I don't think there is a problem to fix that would have prevented this. He was wealthy. He made money doing something he loved. So it's not like it's because poverty. His psych eval came clean for his pilots license. So far nothing showing extremist beliefs. So either this guy got fed up with humans or some crazy tin foil hat shit is going on. Sometimes there is no preventable cause.
  7. testimony from his gf seems to be he had some psych issues

    mental health is always brought up as the issue, and I think we all agree its an issue. But the same people in washington who say 'this isnt about guns' are at the same time making healthcare more expensive and harder to access
  8. Lol not at all. With that many people grouped that close, accuracy isn't important.
  9. Mr. Paddock may have scouted other locations, including Fenway Park in Boston, Lollapalooza in Chicago and the Life is Beautiful music festival in Las Vegas, before finally checking into a suite at the Mandalay Bay that had clear sight lines to Route 91, and a massive gathering of country music fans. He stockpiled expensive firearms over the course of many months.
  10. #110 Vanilla Ice, Oct 6, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
    The weapon often doesn't have any influence over the size of the magazine it will accept. Compatibility is defined by the mating mechanism and feeding pattern, which is determined by about the top inch of the magazine. The rest is just how far it keeps going. STANAG magazines are available in sizes ranging from five to 150 rounds. That said, Canadian law limits semi-automatic rifles to five round magazines, and five round boxes are pretty common (since a pinned 30-round magazine is just for the tacticool look).
  11. An extremely talented marksman might have been able to manage more in semi-auto (not bolt action). But for the vast majority of shooters, no. The range Lizardmech is talking about is actually less relevant due to the elevated position - shooting at targets below you extends the range of your weapon.

    For the same reason, from the dawn of war until the year 2000, there was exactly one instance of a soldier killing an enemy with a rifle beyond one mile range. Since then, there have been eleven - because the terrain in Afghanistan and Iraq means you're shooting into a mountain pass from a mountain top, dramatically improving the ballistics of the weapon.
  12. The accuracy of a weapon is determined by other factors than its ergonomic features. Harmonics and tolerances of the barrel and firing components, for example, are pretty separate from the style of grip and stock and sights. Some of these might not be compatible with pointability (like heavier components). A working rifle might be expected to have a long service life, mind you, so long-term reliability is a concern, especially in a pretty harsh climate. There's a reason, for instance, why iron sights are still common and not everyone is dropping cash on rectiles.
  13. #113 Sick Boy, Oct 6, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
    I think gun culture, despite being ingrained in american culture since the wild west days, appears to be a feedback loop system, where when more guns ara available, people tend to glorify guns more.

    Everyone says that SoCal has a "car culture" and it was the birth place of modified cars and hot rods. While I'm sure that there are car enthusiasts in, say NYC, no one would say that that place is as car oriented as Los Angeles is. I heard of kids growing in NYC who reached adult life without knowing how to drive, simply because there would be no need.

    I'd estimate that if guns became more restricted, and if some types were banned altogether, the amount of glorification of firearms would decrease considerably. On the long run, America could be less gun oriented, in the same way that in a overpopulated city with difficult parking and efficient public transport people become less car oriented.
  14. Considering that there were hundreds of people packed together, accuracy would mean nothing. This is a situation where spray and pray makes more sense than accuracy. Plus, I'd imagine that being pin-point accurate from mid to long ranges requires talent and training.

    The truck possibility seems even more ridiculous. It's a music festival, I assume there are gates, security people, portable toilets, tents, and a shitload of inanimate objects between the road and the festival goers... the guy wouldn't go very far trying to drive a truck into the crowd, I'd anticipate.
  15. Not to mention actual purpose-designed vehicle barriers. The attack in Nice was not the first time someone thought to use a vehicle as a weapon, and most large gatherings of people and sensitive / important buildings are explicitly designed to stop vehicle ingress. Funtime activity: walk around a central business district or government district in any big city, and ask why a building would be designed with its main level three steps above street level, why trees are planted so close together, or why flower planters and garbage cans would ever need to be made out of concrete.

    eg: the placement of planters, trees, and stairs makes it very obvious that the designers of the Canadian Embassy in Washington were very concerned about vehicle ramming attacks:

    The designers of the US Embassy in Ottawa clearly had the same idea, although 'subtlety' is obviously not a word they're familiar with.
  16. theyve taken away our right to drive on sidewalks, whats next? our right to drive on streets? slippery slope guys
    ETB4U and WhiteChocolateWorld like this.
  17. His wife also said, "He never said anything to me or took any action that I was aware of that I understood in any way to be a warning that something horrible like this was going to happen." So unless you plan on forcing people to get monthly psych evals, nothing would stop something like this. Sometimes you have to accept not everything can be fixed.

    Of course you think it's ridiculous because you live a naive and sheltered life.
    Somehow I don't think this will stop a large moving truck or even a car coming at it at high speeds. Maybe if it was built by Trump it would:

  18. I'm only going off what is shown in the videos and measurements. There's one video of about 5 people standing around in the open ignoring him, it looked as though there was 20+ meter spread over where he was aiming. Military studies list 300m as the practical range for 5.56mm, the distance between the hotel and crowd was over 400m, even including elevation I'm skeptical it would be more effective than someone carefully firing a semiautomatic rifle better suited to that range. Even with a bolt action, if he had started firing .50 BMG into the crowd you would probably see multiple people being killed by one round.
  19. Incorrect because the large grouping of people and the large number of bullets fired means accuracy isn't necessary.
    You fire 100 rounds and half hit, you'd get 50 hits. Fire 500 rounds and 1/4 hit, you'd get 125 hits.
  20. if the individual or people he knew thought something was wrong, and mental health was easily accessed, affordable, and stigma free they could have caught it themselves.

    also when big events in streets occur temporary barricades are easy and common
  21. when shooting into a crowd throwing more metal is better, accuracy be damned
  22. No such thing as an universal "practical range" for any type of firearm or cartridge exists. Arms manufacturers cite absolute max. effective range, and max. effective ranges for point and area targets. Allied WW2 military studies in the ETO concluded that the typical ranges of engagement in rifle combat occurred at ranges <300m, which is why intermediate cartridges were pursued in the first place.

    A standard 62gr. 5,56mm SS109 NATO ball round fired from a typical service rifle retains more kinetic energy at 500 yards than a 9mm NATO/Para fired from a pistol has at the muzzle. One of the initial requirements for the 5,56mm NATO was the capability to penetrate a US WW2 steel helmet at 800m.

    Several DMRs chambered to 5,56mm NATO exist that are capable of engaging targets up to 800m.

    There's no way that the perpetrator could have done this amount of damage with a bolt-action rifle, even with .50 BMG. Perhaps he could have killed those 58 victims, but there's no way in hell he could have injured hundreds more, many of which will spend the rest of their lives paralyzed/severely handicapped. It's misleading to only look at fatalities.

    These days the vast majority of gunshot victims survive, but life isn't necessarily pretty after that. Film and videogame characters take crippling amounts of damage and are back at punching bad guys the next day. Anyone who has sustained any serious injury, or being at the receiving end of physical violence can attest that real life doesn't work that way. Here's one real-life example: in 2012 a Finnish police officer was shot in the abdomen once. She was rushed to the hospital, spent the next 4 years in hospitals and rehab, undergoing 150 surgeries costing millions of euros. She's now practicing to walk short distances and trying to cope with severe neuropathic pain while sitting in a wheelchair. Yay.
    Sick Boy likes this.
  23. lizardmech was this a false flag
  24. Yeah, and if they're not mind readers?
    That's the exit gate. Those orange plastic barricades they place at events aren't meant aren't meant to stop cars. That's why a crane wasn't needed to move them so 1st responders could get there.
  25. We need a Lizardmech False Flag Congressional Committee on Las Vegas. With forensic analysis by ETB4U.

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