McLaren F1 at the Ring

Discussion in 'Videos and Sounds' started by Hyundai Driver, Oct 17, 2004.

  1. To those who claimed they'd be thrashing around harder, if it were your million dollar car at stake on a track where ANY public people in their shitbox can drive on, without any marshalling, unless you are some sort of total idiot who have no clue what was at stake, you'd be careful too.....
     
  2. trap speeds in corners wer higher for the F1 too though...anyways the ring although it is a closed circuit is very similar to a back road, its not a smooth track like Moza or such and I think thats why cars such as the McLaren can achieve close times to cars which are much more competition based and have more downforce like the Enzo. Not an expert though just my thoughts...
     
  3. tell me more about these trap speeds done by Jonathan Palmer?, when it was done, etc, sounds interesting.
     
  4. Yes. I was hoping he would open it up throughout the whole video. It was rather dissapointing.
     
  5. Well its an article called "circuit breaker" from oct 93 and the car is xp4 with a down on power(580) engine. They show a map with speeds the car attains including 200 on the front straight, 70 in the karussell and bergwerk.....I dont have a scanner maybe look for it online!
     
  6. please find that if you can.
     
  7. I remember that article. Curious thing is, not only was there a passenger in the F1, but the track was mostly wet/damp as well. Will upload the lap chart (with the Pagani's speeds for comparison) tomorrow, unless someone else finds it first.
     
  8. Guibo, do you think the F1LM could match the Carrera GT on the ring? I actually think so, if not beating it all together. Anyone else have an opinion?
     
  9. How great would it be to get blown away by an F1 like that guy in the last video?
     
  10. Here's the article on the McLAREN.
     
  11. Here's the article on the McLAREN.
     
  12. Nice one, Swaybars. Here's how some other cars compare.

    Orange F1LM:
    I think the F1LM *might* be able to beat the Carrera GT, but perhaps not right out of the box. The standard F1 should be good for a low 7:4x lap IMO, and the LM with less weight, more power, more downforce, more track tuned suspension should get around in low 7:30's if not high 7:20's. The only thing to note is that even though the standard F1's suspension is softer than we're accustomed to seeing in supercars, it might not necessarily be a bad thing at the 'Ring, with its often bumpy surfaces, shifting patches concrete/asphault, etc. The standard F1 with its long suspension travel is said to really shine on unpredictable roads with off-camber corners, blind crests, etc. So an all-out track setup for a perfectly smooth surface may not be ideal at the 'Ring.
    The only thing is, the Carrera GT was born on this track, and as Porsche has shown with lesser models (GT3 RS, etc) this can make quite a bit of difference on this track. The CGT also has considerably shorter gearing working in its favor, as well as some of the best brakes on the market (ABS, w/ceramic composite rotors). But give the McLaren crew a day's worth of suspension-only tuning on an open 'Ring, and I think they could get low 7:20's with the LM. Just my humble opinion.

    Watching this video, and seeing how there's basically no runoff room in many of those corners, one can understand why hardly anybody wants to run an F1 at 10/10ths through the 'Ring. Writing off 2 CGT's (as Porsche reportedly during testing) is one thing; writing off an F1 just doesn't seem worth it all.
     
  13. THANKS GUIBO!!! btw I think the trap speeds were not taken when there was a passenger but on an occasion when the journalist was not there.
     
  14. wow Guibo, the F1 looks notably faster than all the competition on almost all of the ring.
     
  15. Ok, heres my view on how fast the McLAREN F1 is on the Nurburgring. I have read all of Flemke's posts on pistonheads.com and I really cant agree with what he said about the time (7:45-7:50) he predicted for the standard F1. That seems far too slow seeing that cars like the NSX-R do 7:55-8:10. The F1 has far more power, even if it does not handle as well as the NSX, which I doubt, it should still be faster since the Nordschleife has a lot of sections where the F1's power can be exploited. I would guess the standard F1 should do at LEAST 7:30. Of course this is with a good driver at the wheel. The LM should be even faster seeing that its got more power and is more race oriented than the standard F1.

    As an aside, I play the Mclaren F1 mod for F1C and my best is 7:23 on the Nordschleife, and thats not a totaly clean lap. However, the car in that simulation only has a top speed of about 345 km/h and the brakes seem better than how flemke describes them. The handling pretty much matches what he says, its got major understeer in medium and slow speed corners. And high downforce at high speed, which is the opposite of the real car. Its just a simulation, but its definetly a good insight into how difficult the track is to drive cleanly<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
     
  16. Nice Post (Finally, a good new member <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/smile.gif"></A> )
     
  17. That would be one hell of a race.

    Remember, though, that the Carrera GT's time of 7:30 was not set under ideal conditions. I remember reading that the track was damp and there was a lot of dirt on the road. Porsche said it would probably do 7:25-7:28 with better conditions.
     
  18. I think the 8.09 is the widely recognised time for NSX-R (von Saurma, 2002), the 7.56 BestMotoring time has some question marks to it.
    I think Guibo made a good summary on that before "update" of the forum software (iow, I can't find it anymore).

    I would personally say Flemke seems about right. He puts the F1 at 20+ seconds faster than NSX-R (using 8.09), and still a bit to go before coming into CGT territory, something I don't see an F1 doing.

     
  19. I kind of find it hard to belive that the F1 is only 20 secs faster. Seeing that it waeighs less, has more than twice the power and larger tires. The track is also very long, and the F1 reaches speeds over 300 km/h in at least 2 different spots.
     
  20. i agree that the F1 is under rated too often.

    Lets all think about it, a Carrera GT beating a McLaren F1LM? how the hell would it win when testers have already noted after driving both that even the normal f1 is notably quicker car in all acceleration.

    I think the F1LM would beat the carrera GT and on anything resembling a straight would just leave it behind like nothing. It should be able to slow down well since it only weighs 23XX pounds and has that big spoiler to help also.

    Who here thinks the F1LM COULD NOT take the Carrera GT on the ring? Please state in detail why?
     
  21. 7:45-50 ???

    That is lame!
    A Porsche Carrera GT can do it in 7:32 mins. on road tyres and is less powerful than the F1. Seems the CGT is the better handling car by far! <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
     
  22. #47 ajzahn, Oct 24, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  23. I don't think the F1LM will beat the CGT around the 'Ring but it will be close
     
  24. Here´s that summary again:
     
  25. How do you think the F1LM would REALLY lose this? I cant see the Carrera GT winning in anything except mabye braking and SOME corners, mabye. Other than that I think the F1LM would pull away significantly especially on corner exiting and acceleration at all speeds. Something has to be said for the F1LM being only 2341 lbs and having almost 700 horsepower, with over 500 lb/ft of torque. Wouldnt this car just flick around that track like nothing with much less inertia etc? It has the downforce, a proven chasis and it weighs 150 lbs less than a Mini Cooper S.

    arent you really saying a Carrera GT could beat a McLaren F1 GTR with an 80 horsepower gain? I dont think that would happen with a regular F1 GTR, let alone an LM. F**k it, put them both on racing slicks and let them go at it.
     

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