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Discussion in '1995 McLaren F1 LM' started by Pando, Nov 1, 2004.
Why does the Enzo beat the F1 LM on the track?
Who said that it ever did?
It seems that you have been fooled by the hype created by Ferrari about its F60 Enzo. A car getting 0-60 in just 2.9 secs would "eat" a car getting there in 3.6 secs 'or be optimistic' 3.4 secs even. Secondly Enzo tops 218mph and LM marks 235mph. So wake up and prase the ultimate driver's car. Even that nifty 150 millisec gear doesnt come to the rescue. It seems that either ferrari doesnt want to take over as it has been 12 years for the efforts to beat Mclaren. About Mercedes SLR, it was made to look good only and it's a V8 so if ferrari takes over it's not that a big deal. Mclaren F1 after more than a decade of domination is still the fastest and the foremost performance car of the world.
First of all, top speed is meaningless on a track. Second, the Ferrari has newer technology and years of F1 racing backing it up so I'm sure it handles better than the LM but not by much. I'm pretty positive the Enzo could beat it around some tracks but not all.
he guys this mother#$%#er ride with the name enzo never can be better as the McLarenF1 LM.
look at the enzo so ugly and against the f1 really "slow"
Yep, because looks and top speed are all that matters on a track.
(That was sarcasm, n00b)
The F1 LM is more than just looks. The McLaren is way more of a racecar than the Enzo Ferrari ever will be.
The McLaren F1 LM will cream the Enzo!
McLaren F1 LM
0-60 mph: 2.9 sec
0-100 mph: 5.9 sec
max speed: 225 mph/360 km (it should go faster for a McLaren)
0-60 mph: 3.6 sec
0-100 mph: 7.7 sec
max speed: 218 mph/350 km
plus its a LM car which has pefect handling it will beat it anytime!
McLaren F1 LM is the best
It doesnt, on the track the f1 easily put the f60 in smoke
the LM is a road car
the stats are wrong
enzo 0-100 is 6.5
the mac's 225 to speed is because of gearing
the mac's handling is tricky and skittish, its far from perfect
yes they are when it was tested 0-100 mph it was 5.9 sec. and i know that it goes at 225 mph, i saw this website that said that it was 7.7 sec. on the enzo and what you are talking about is the road car. everyone knows that LM cars have better hadling it was made to race
mclaren LM is not designed to be the record holder on the top speed but to be the best driving (both road and track) car. enzo doesn't have the downforce and the weight to beat the mclaren F1 LM. And right, THE LOOKS TOO
First of all, may I restate that you give this entire forum a bad name. May I suggest a subscription to Motor Trend, Autoweek, Road & Track, Evo Mag, or some other worthwhile auto magazine. I didn't know $#^! about cars until I subscribed to motor trend, and I'm now and avid enthusiast and guru.
Secondly, I will give myself a lethal injection if I hear this topic brought up again. I don't know how many times I've heared people making wild claims and speculations about how the F1 stacks up to modern super cars. With this in mind, I have done my research and would like to SETTLE THIS ONE AND FOR ALL!
The first question I have to ask is: what F1? The LM? the long-nosed GT? thr original? the racebred GTR? In this comparison between and Enzo and an F1, the version would make a big difference (more on that in a bit)
Second and most important question: what track? Monza? Nurburgring? Santa Pod drag Strip?
I plan to explain the outcome of all possibly scenarios, but first, let me straighten out these ridiculous stats:
0-60 time: Mclaren f1 (original) would do about 3.2 seconds on a perfect surface-the LM would be about the same (maybe a tenth or two slower due to added downforce, but maybe not because of lower weight and shorter gearing)
Enzo: 3.5-3.6 secs (not 3.4 and definetly not 2.9!!!)
Top speed: A stock Mclaren (the slippery original) has been clocked at over 240 mph!! Check it! it's on guiness! However, the team might have messed with the car's gearing or other settings although they did not change the actual parts. Secondly, I don't know what kinda tires they were using (a track car with soft, sticky slicks wouldn't be able to reach this speed)
Enzo: claimed at up to 218mph, but only tested up to 211.5mph (as far as I know)
LET ME WARN YOU ALL: TOP SPEED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRACK PERFORMANCE AND GEARING A CAR FOR IT WILL ACTUALLY HURT IT ON A TRACK!!!
Now, the scenarios:
scenario 1: 1/4 mile drag race:
This one would go to the McLaren, but only narrowly if the car in question were an LM. The stock car would annihilate the enzo in 0-60 time, 0-100 time, and 1/4 mile time (it has a TON of high end power and revs). The LM would have a harder time at the top end due to shorter gearing and increased downforce, but would get a boost off the line form its lower weight and shorter gearing. It would be close, but I assume the LM would still win.
scenario 2: low speed, technical track:
The enzo would win this one narrowly (depending on the actual size and speed of the track: the tighter the better for the enzo). A tight, technical track would prevent the McLaren from fully utilizing its high-rev advantage, and would allow the enzo to use its superior downforce and modern carbon ceramic abs brakes to lose the Mclaren in the braking zones (the original f1 would be soundly defeated). The LM, however, would give the enzo a serious rucn for its money due to its superior low end and cornering performance (compared with the original). It could be too close to call (depending on the circuit), but I think the enzo might pull this one off (just barely).
Scenario 3: high-speed circuit such as the nurburgring or Circuit de la Sarthe (where the LeMans is run):
Sorry ferrari loyalists, but the f1 was built for this kind of track, and would own this contest. Given the chance to stretch its legs, the McLaren would lose the enzo on the straights (regardless of top speed, it would still reach a higher speed because of its superior acceleration). Its advantage would be more than enough to make up for its cornering disadvantage. There's really no contest here.
SO THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!
if you are still awake, you can hopefully put this issue to rest. I hope I never have to read another thread about the enzo vs. f1. As for the SLR Mclaren (a luxurious GT passed off as a supercar), lets just say it's not in the same league as these two.
As for daily driving (if you would ever actually use the f1 for that), go to motorcities .com and look through about 8 short pages of videos until u find a top gear episode addressing this question. In summary for those of you who are too lazy: the Enzo wins by a mile.
i didnt mean PERFECT handling
Who cares... This ain't a fair contest anyway!!!
McLaren F1 LM is made PURELY for the racetrack... Not intended for road use!!!
The Ferrari Enzo is made not only for the track but also for the road so some performance was sacrificed in order for it to be purely STREET-LEGAL!!!
This may be a better contest:
McLaren F1 LM vs. Ferrari FXX Evoluzione
By the way, I know somebody who OWNS and DRIVEN BOTH both of these two exotics. He said that the McLaren is a bigger adrenaline pump because its faster and a lot noisier... The Enzo is easier to drive because of its superb handling OVER the McLaren F1 LM.
So there you have it... I don't want to read or hear that any McLaren F1LM handles better than the Enzo!!!
Although this is the best reply to the thread so far it is still sheer nonsense.
Your entire argument is based on guesswork and gut feeling. Allow me to explain why.
First, "The first question I have to ask is: what F1? The LM? the long-nosed GT? thr original? the racebred GTR? In this comparison between and Enzo and an F1, the version would make a big difference (more on that in a bit)"
The name of the thread is: "Mclaren F1 LM vs Ferrari Enzo at the track", it is obvious the question is about the LM, and the question is about a track, not a dragstrip, not a very small track either, a normal track is obviously implied.
This however is not well-defined so I will define it now: the track is Monza.
"the enzo to use its superior downforce and modern carbon ceramic abs brakes to lose the Mclaren in the braking zones (the original f1 would be soundly defeated)."
You state that the Enzo has superior downforce, yet you don't have any citations for this, how do you know the Enzo has superior downforce? You don't, you merely assume.
I, personally don't know. The F1 LM has the rear wing, splitter, skirts and diffuser derived directly from a RACE CAR, i.e. the F1 GTR. 
I don't know the drag coefficient, frontal area, respective Cx nor the actual downforce produced by either car, so I don't know, and neither do you.
You also state the Enzo has better brakes than the LM, I agree, it *probably* has, at least it should have. Even here though you don't have any figures or references. BUT, notice I'm writing BRAKES, not actual brake performance!
The actual BRAKE PERFORMANCE depends on not only how good the brakes are, but how much mass are you trying to stop? Is it a 5 ton truck or a Lotus Elise?
McLaren F1 LM: 1062 kg 
Ferrari Enzo: 1370 kg 
How do you KNOW that the Enzo has better stopping power than the LM? The Enzo probably has better brakes than the LM, but the Enzo is nearly *300* kg heavier! That is A LOT!
This also adds to the note on cornering envelope, the weight of a car is a HUGE variable in the cornering envelope.
Back to the brakes, bear in mind that the LM has the brakes of the GTR track machine , this is not a regular road going supercar, it is a real race car converted to be barely legal on the road, how bad can the brakes of a Le Mans winning race car be? Maybe not quite as good as that of a modern excellent supercar (but maybe they are, we don't know this), but even if they aren't quite as good as the brakes on the Enzo the 300 kg difference will easily make up for that and annihilate the Enzo in a brake contest.
The LM has 4 pot monobloc light alloy callipers with the GTR95 Brake Cooling System , do you SERIOUSLY believe that the brakes on a Le Mans winning RACE CAR can not compete with brakes that are made to work comfortably in a road car as well as for track days? How well does the brakes on the Enzo cope with a 30 lap race? A GTR machine will handle this with ease, that is obvious, it is the sole purpose it was built for, will the Enzo handle it? Maybe, probably not as well as the GTR.
My subjective opinion, i.e. what I THINK is correct:
The Enzo will destroy the standard F1 on a track, the standard F1 has not the brakes, downforce nor suspension system of the LM, it also has a bit less power.
But this is not about the standard F1.
The LM has is derived directly from the GTR race car, it is 300 kg less than the Enzo, it has more power, higher top speed, this we KNOW. And it probably has better cornering envelope AND stopping power due to the huge 300 kg difference.
As for you other fools who talk about top speed and acceleration alone and think you understand how to judge the performance of a car track-wise, you guys have NO IDEA, read: NO IDEA ON WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
STOP WRITING NONSENSE AND COME BACK WHEN YOU KNOW ANYTHING.
Read what I wrote to zzUltimaGTRzz to get an idea, then study some physics, buy and read a few books on race car track driving and track performance.
nice explanation- i am serious. i would like to know your opinion about Monteverdi Hai 650 F1 and reliability of its 1989 Ford Cosworth 3.5 L DFR engine (Formula 1 engine - of course)
Although I would prefer to refrain from hijacking my own thread with discussing not only a completely different car but a completely different issue (reliability of the engine versus overall track performance) I actually attempted to locate information on this car to use as a base for an educated guess -- to no avail, I was unable to locate said information after a brief search.
My honest answer is I don't know, I don't know as I haven't heard of this car prior to you mentioning it, it seems to be extremely rare and interesting per se though.
But again this isn't the thread for this, I suggest you create a new thread for it in the respective appropriate section(s) of the forum.
ok. it is here :
well guess what. it does not beat the mclaren.and never will.
Sadly, yet another retarded answer from the flock of sheep.