More top speed

Discussion in '2000 Lotus Elise 111S' started by Bill Oddity, Aug 10, 2002.

  1. Re: More top speed

    Some food for thought....

    Firstly, any suggestion of turbocharging this car is sacrilege! Imagine Colin Chapman's (that was his name right??) horror at the thought of all his life's hard work being put to waste for more straight-line speed!!! The Elise is all about handling, balance and the light-weight philosophy of which it is the epitome!

    Secondly... I'm finished. Haha, actually, I was going to say that 124mph (200-something in my Aussie terms) would be scary enough already with the build quality of these things!! Don't get me wrong, I love the Elise, but there have been quite some stories of the roof and roll-bar cover coming off at speed... =)

    Thirdly, although I'm not a fan of "rice" cars, the V-TEC idea is a nice one which wouldn't upset the handling too much... although personally I'd like some TORQUE with my engine please!
     
  2. Re: More top speed

    Isn't there some guy that stuck an LS/V-TEC into one of these for competition racing?

    And what would you think of something like a B22 (RS MOTORWORKS ROCKS MAN!) in one of these? For those that don't know, it's a deck-plated B-series engine that produces 235bhp and 185lb-ft. Of course if I were to put a bigger engine into this, I'd get more down-force (a HELL-OF-A lot more) or forever be scared of flooring it...
     
  3. Re: More top speed

    Does it matter you can 'only' go at 124mph. is there many places you can get up to these speeds anyway?
     
  4. Re: More top speed

    Yes maybe in a straight line you might win if there was enough track. On circuit where there is a variation of corners you’re going to be left for dead. The whole point of this car is that it weighs just over 700KG. That’s about half a Ford Focus. Couple this lightweight design to the excellent breaks and a revolutionary chassis and the driver of the Elise has finished the crossword by the time you cross the line.
     
  5. Re: More top speed

    You can get A/C on the current model if you want it.
     
  6. Re: More top speed

    is taking out the A/C something that a regular guy (like myself) could do without the help of a mechanic?
     
  7. Re: More top speed

    i think to turbo an elise is just right, who cares what the guy whop created it thinks? It isnt he's car anymore but anyway, turboing an elise would add more higher range torque, which would help with the cornering, more straight line speed, and more topspeed since it isnt limited by drag or weight, adding a little more power would be just right.
     

  8. Re: More top speed


    yeah - a nice bit of turbo lag mid corner would really help cornering speed - ever experienced lift off oversteer in an Elise? Weight would affect the handling, by the way, which is what this car is all about. Turboing the Elise is not as easy as it sounds - I know of a couple that are pretty good, but are still put to shame by VPHD or modded, NA equipped cars.

    I care what the designer of the Elise thinks - he made a fantastic car. I suggest that until you have driven it, your comments are somewhat moot and ill informed.
     
  9. Re: More top speed

    very dissapointed about the engine. even with how light it is it still cant even reach 130mph. they should add some turbos or supercharge it or sumpthin because its really laking powr. but the styling is great. but the rear end, its too much like a ferrari modena or 550 maranello don,t u agree?!
     
  10. Re: More top speed

    NO!!!

    And for top speed: get yourself an Elise190, gear it up correctly and watch it fly...
     

  11. Re: More top speed


    Your post is incredible. You've failed to read any of the previous posts in the thread, and if you have, you've ignored or misunderstood what has been said.

    1) the Elise does not lack power - power-to-weight ratio is 246BHP per tonne. Same as a 911. Light weight means I have no problem keeping up (and passing) cars with much higher bhp and torque figures on track in the Elise

    2) see my points about turbo charging an Elise - in almost all circumstances, normal aspiration is the best option for this car

    3) Lotus have used the 2 pairs of round lights since the launch of the original Elise which predates the pair of Ferraris that you mentioned. It is part of the Lotus identity now
     
  12. Re: More top speed

    umm not just the 550 and the modena , but mostly all ferrais have those kinda lights. like f50& f40
     

  13. Re: More top speed


    Right. So does the McLaren F1. So does the ford Puma. I think the Elise has its own character and design probity, and it doesn't look like a Ferrari. I've parked mine next to a 360 - it shares little in comparison. I've also parked next to a 246 Dino - that on the other hand does have a passing resemblence.... <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
     
  14. Re: More top speed

    the elise is nothing more than a reasonably cheap to buy, cheap to run, light weight sports car............ Marvellous!!!!!!
    this is the type of car that the world needs more of.
    The ultimate track day tool, The Lotus Elise.
    (oh and they depriciate to £15000 and stay there, so you dont lose much money epecially on used examples.)
     
  15. Re: More top speed

    the Elise does not lack power - power-to-weight ratio is 246BHP per tonne. Same as a 911. Light weight means I have no problem keeping up (and passing) cars with much higher bhp and torque figures on track in the Elise
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------


    CAN it keep pace with a 911 turbo or modena,on the track.I mean world class track like Suzuki(japan f1 gp track)?
     

  16. Re: More top speed


    Well, that depends on a lot of factors. Recently, the Elise was tested against a couple of much more powerful cars recently on Top Gear's test track (which is a mix of high speed, testing / flat-out long sweeping corners, and more technical dynamic handling & power delivery 2nd / 3rd gear stuff. Its a good assessing track for all-round abilities, mixing high speed and low speed work (a Zonda managed something around 140mph on one striaght)

    Anyway, the Elise was up against the Ferrari 575MM (with Fiorano handling package) and the Aston Martin Vanquish. The track was wet, and the Elise lapped in 1min 33 seconds. The Ferrari was second, less than a full second in arrears, and the Vanquish third at 1min 35secs. This was on the same track in the same conditions with the same (professional) driver.

    This proves the value of lightweight and handling against high hp figures and bags of torque pretty categorically...

    BTW, the F1 in Japan is Suzuka, not Suzuki, which is a car / motorcycle brand <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/emoticons.html"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/cboardhtml/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>

     
  17. Re: More top speed

    Bukem:
    1) the Elise does not lack power - power-to-weight ratio is 246BHP per tonne. Same as a 911. Light weight means I have no problem keeping up (and passing) cars with much higher bhp and torque figures on track in the Elise

    2) see my points about turbo charging an Elise - in almost all circumstances, normal aspiration is the best option for this car

    3) Lotus have used the 2 pairs of round lights since the launch of the original Elise which predates the pair of Ferraris that you mentioned. It is part of the Lotus identity now.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Indeed
     
  18. Re: More top speed

    Ok, two things...

    Firstly, I previously stated that turbocharging an Elise was bad simply for traditional and purist reasons. Someone in this thread said he didn't care for such values and, although I wholeheartedly stand by what I said earlier, I understand that not everyone is of the same opinion. So, some practical issues about turbocharging this car...

    At a little over 700kg, the turbo makes a LARGE difference to the balance and weight of the car. Although "mid-engined", I believe you'll find that the engine is closer to the rear of the car than the front. Standard, it has perfect 50-50 weight distribution. However, add a minimum of 50 kg (that's more than 7% of the original weight of the car!!!) to the engine for the turbo (and more with a large intercooler) and you are looking at upsetting the ratio to something more like 46-54 or thereabouts (admittedly I haven't done uni physics/engineering so I may be wrong here- just guesstimating). To offset the weight increase, you will need new suspension parts, springs, dampers and brakes to name a few. You'd need to change the settings of all of these too (time-consuming if not expensive). Then, to deal with the extra power, you need a heavier clutch, gearbox and differential, plus uprate most of the drivetrain parts. To finish off, you need a new radiator for better cooling, and more aero parts to add downforce. So in the end, you will probably have a faster car in a straight line (depending on the turbo tune) and possibly even on a racetrack but you will have a car that is less drivable (read: has lag), carries LESS mid-corner speed (due to being at least 800kg and probably closer to 850kg), probably looks a bit stupid (with all those aero parts), cost you as much to modify as it did to buy, wears out its parts much, much quicker, and STILL gets it's ass KICKED at the lights by any stock TVR, Viper, or modified Ford or Chevy. Still want to turbo that Elise??

    By the way, if anyone's interested, Lotus was originally in talks with an Australian engine company by the name of Orbital to provide a two-stroke (yes, like some motorcycles) compact in-line 6 (I think it was in-line anyway) but the deal fell through so therefore Lotus ended up with the Rover K-series. HOWEVER, the Orbital engine obviously fits in the engine bay and I believe is similar in weight to the K-series... but it is 2 litres in displacement and has six cylinders so you're looking at figures like 120 kW (approx. 160 bhp) and 195-200 Nm in standard form. My estimate: 0-100kmh about 5.4sec, 400m in 13.6 or thereabouts. Also, I wonder... if an in-line six can fit......... =) Just kidding. I'm still a purist. =)

    Secondly, to the guys talking about A/C before... if you absolutely don't want/need the airconditioning unit then sure you can have it removed (probably by the dealer) BUT consider that it is a revolutionary unit designed and engineered by Lotus that is just FIFTEEN (15) kg in weight, compared to 50 kg for a standard unit. Is 15kg saving (about 2%) really worth the extra discomfort on a hot day? =)
     
  19. Re: More top speed

    Ditto,

    First off your an idiot, adding a turbo will not add 150kg's to a car even if you want to keep perfect balance. Did you know that the Supra Turbo is only 30lbs heavier then the stock one that is like 14kg. And the turbo/intercooler setup on that car is beefy. A turbo itself only weighs in at about a few pounds. The intercooler will be like 5-6, they are very thin metal wafers. The wastegate and BOV will be a few pounds, and the the piping itself is a few pounds as well, I know this as I have helped install a few turbo kits myself.

    Even if you through the perfect weight distribution of doesn't mean it will handle worse, if anything you would be faster in the corners with all that extra power. 50/50 weight is great it means you can carve up the corners but it also means that the car is very unforgiving if you make a mistake. It might make the car feel easier to drive if it had a but more weight on the back.

    For those who are wondering why the engine is closer to the back here is why, it is not a centre engine car. Mid engine does not mean the engine is right smack dab in the middle of the chassis. All it means is that it starts and ends in between the two axles.

    And for those who are bitching about the top speed, wondering why it is slow even though it is so light weight, clue in, weight does NOT effect top speed, just how fast you get there. The only efficient way to go faster in this beast is to have more power. Honestly this car is fast, but from highway speeds it could be a little sluggish. An integra would beat this thing on the highway, that is until they had to turn off.
     
  20. Re: More top speed

    Alright, I'm an idiot... so explain for me these stats from Supercars.net itself... ok???? Now, stock 996 Porsche 911 Carrera 4S and 996 Porsche 911 Turbo have the same 3.6L flat-six engine and 4WD drivetrain right?? Specification is reasonably similar, although Turbo has bigger wing! And brakes. And beefier suspension. Let's see... listed mass of 4S: 1405kg. of Turbo: 1579kg. Difference: 174kg. Result of adding two (might I add, SMALL) turbos to a car. Remember, the 4S starts off as a much heavier car than the Elise in the first place, so any change in weight is going to make a much larger difference to suspension and brake components than in the 4S, yet look at the difference there! Ok, you've done it before and I haven't, so maybe I AM wrong, but if I am, can we be more sensible about this and instead of name-calling and whatever, just explain things?? Reckon you can manage that? Looking forward to an explanation... =)
     
  21. Re: More top speed

    Anyway I wont claim to explain that for a Porsche because I dont know much about Porsches to begin with. Perhaps the turbo model gets all sorts of luxury add in the NA did not have. But I am clueless otherwise. Anywho don't take the name calling to seriously I said idiot I could have said worse believe me there are a lot of REAL flamers that deserve comments like that.
     
  22. Re: More top speed

    Sorry for double posting, anyway, my logic for assuming most turbo kits are only up to about 45lbs is because I have installed some pretty beefy setups. A T78 kit form greddy on an MR2 Turbo, the car gained about 8lbs with the new kit. 175kgs is not just a turbo kit. The boxes the kit came in weighed nothing at all, I could lift them with ease, 175kgs I could not benchpress if my life depended on it. It is simple reasoning, but anyway peace out.
     
  23. Re: More top speed

    Thanks for the nice and informative reply =) See? We can disagree but still get along just fine! hehe =0P Anyway, I guess I got my figures pretty wrong... so thanks for the tips on turbo installation! (not that I have a car worth doing it to yet anyway) Just a question though... don't you think the Elise would find itself seriously under-braked, under-clutched, possibly under-sprung and certainly without enough downforce or the correct gear ratios for the increase in power? And I guess the next question would be whether a turbo installation would actually FIT in the engine bay?

    Btw, for all following this thread (which may just be me and you, Budgy), I still maintain that I would never, EVER turbo an Elise - call me a purist =0P
     

  24. Re:
    More top speed


    Budgy - adding a turbo to a car like the Elise is *just*plain*wrong*

    Claim: adding a turbo doesn't add much weight

    Conflicting Evidence:

    standard Elise: 700kgs
    standard VX200: 825kgs (this car is built by lotus for GM - it is 'loosely' based on the Elise)
    VX220T turbo: 925kgs - no additional equipment over the standard VX

    Claim: adding a turbo would make the car 'better'

    Conflicting evidence:

    Of the 7 VX220T turbo press cars issued for magazine road tests, 6 have been damaged. 1 has been written off, 2 are beyond repair, 3 are damaged, but fixable

    Just don't do it. It upsets the handling, as anyone who knows about lift-off oversteer will tell you, even the lag from a low boost turbo will send you backwards into the hedge when you least expect it. This car needs to be n/a.

    Case closed.
     
  25. #50 kleatz, Mar 9, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: More top speed

    Sun International makes a very nice Elise with a Honda B18C engine which will run 0-60 in 4.3 at 110. You can't argue with that. For more go to www.sunspeed.com
     

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