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Discussion in 'Car Comparisons' started by ajzahn, Oct 28, 2004.
The NRing time for the GT2 RS is 7:18 not 7:11
First pole position for Audi at 24-hour race at the Nürburgring
Ingolstadt/Nürburg, May 14, 2010
The Audi R8 LMS looks to be the car to beat in the 38th running of the 24-hour race at the Nürburgring: Four of the fascinating mid-engine sportscars start the race on Saturday at 3:00 p.m. from the first four grid positions.
The two Audi c...ustomer teams ABT Sportsline and Phoenix Racing had the correct strategy in qualifying: After it had rained during first qualifying on Thursday and the Nordschleife was still very dirty and slippery at the start of Friday’s second qualifying session, the two teams only went gunning for lap times shortly before the end of the final two-hour qualifying session. Lucas Luhr (ABT Sportsline/8m 27.967s) and Mike Rockenfeller (Phoenix Racing/8m 25.782s) initially used the now considerably superior conditions to set new fastest laps before they were beaten by Marco Werner (ABT Sportsline) with 8m 24.753s. Rockenfeller was still able to improve to 8m 25.568s on his last lap, but remained in second position. Pierre Kaffer (Phoenix Racing) completed the Audi quartet at the head of the field after posting a 8m 29.250s lap.
As a result, an Audi starts from pole position for the first time in the history of the 24-hour race at the Nürburgring. "That four of our customer cars occupy the first four grid positions underlines the qualities of the Audi R8 LMS on the world’s longest and most demanding race track and is fantastic advertising for our new customer car, which we have developed over the last two-and-a-half years," explained Head of Audi Motorsport Dr. Wolfgang Ullrich, who follows the Audi customer teams’ preparations himself on location, and in doing so demonstrates how important the new customer sport programmed with the Audi R8 LMS is for Audi Sport.
Marco Werner broke the existing lap record for the current Nürburgring circuit layout by almost two seconds and, in the process, underlined the progress made during the further development of the Audi R8 LMS and how good the Michelin tires work on the cars from ABT and Phoenix. "We are satisfied to be on pole position, even though it isn’t really a very important step for a 24-hour race," explained the three-time Le Mans winner. "It’s always ‘nice to have’. It was important that we had a few laps in the dry to see just how the car handles. We were unable to work in the set-up in the previous practice sessions, since the conditions were always very difficult. At least it was dry today. I was really fighting in the car. My lap was good, I only came across traffic on two or three occasions. That is the key to success for the last few seconds, which is what it was about in the end and led to pole position. We could show that Audi and ABT have produced a good package with the R8 LMS. Thanks also to Michelin, to whom we only switched to last week. Everything worked well."
The three other Audi R8 LMS start on Saturday from positions 12, 17 and 22. The third Phoenix Racing R8 LMS had an accident in first qualifying on Thursday evening in which the car’s front end was damaged. The team Black Falcon Audi R8 LMS #102 made contact twice with the guardrails in final practice.
The 38th running of the 24-hour race at the Nürburgring is started in Saturday at 3:00 p.m. Sport1 broadcasts 20 hours live. During the formation lap one of the limited edition of 333 Audi R8 GT will lead the starter field.
Since 2002, Audi is partner of the 24-hour race at the Nürburgring through its sports subsidiary quattro GmbH, but is still missing from the endurance classic’s winners’ list. The Audi customer team ABT Sportsline and Phoenix Racing, who share the first two rows, now have an excellent chance to change this.
The starting grid at the Nürburgring
1 Ekström/Jarvis/Scheider/Werner (Audi R8 LMS) 8m 24.753s
2 Basseng/Rockenfeller/Stippler/Stuck (Audi R8 LMS) 8m 25.568s
3 Abt/Collard/Luhr/Mies (Audi R8 LMS) 8m 27.967s
4 Biela/Fässler/Hennerici/Kaffer (Audi R8 LMS) 8m 29.250s
5 Arnold/Menzel/Westbrook/Margaritis (Porsche) 8m 29.521s
6 Mamerow/Henzler/Hardt (Porsche) 8m 29.779s
7 Lieb/Bernhard/Dumas/Tiemann (Porsche) 8m 30.323s
8 Müller/Farfus/Alzen/Lamy (BMW) 8m 32.861s
9 Bergmeister/Lietz/Holzer/Ragginger (Porsche) 8m 34.427s
10 Alzen/Schwager/Jäger/Bert (Porsche) 8m 34.906s
latest addition to the list:
7:56 --- 155.80 km/h - Ferrari California, 460 PS/1787 kg (sport auto 06/10)
as fast as:
7:56* - 155.80 km/h - Chevrolet Corvette Z06 ,company chief engineer Dave Hill (*mfr.)
7:56 --- 155.80 km/h - Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, 425 PS/1387 kg (sport auto 02/04)
7:56 --- 155.80 km/h - Porsche 996 GT3, 462 PS/??? kg, www.spiegel.de/auto/fahrberichte/0,1518,117941,00.html
7:56 --- 155.80 km/h - Porsche 996 Turbo, 420 PS/1569 kg (sport auto 06/00)
Nope, it's 7:11 <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
Still we are waiting for the video of that, and that's what i heard from one "insider" from other forum, that they have reached 7:11, so far. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
pretty good performance for that heavy weight, comfortable as a Gran Tourismo, a coupe and a convertible in one and as fast a proper sports cars like the Z06, still a benchmark for many fans, and the "old" GT2 and Turbo, what an achievement!
nice job <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
Tyres on test?
standard Pirelli P zero
Wiesmann GT MF5
Porsche 918 set to race
Tuesday, May 25, 2010
Porsche will enter its striking 918 Spyder concept in next year's Nurburgring 24 Hours race, according to reports from Germany.
Engineers are currently working on getting the hybrid’s top speed up to 200mph and Porsche claims the car could do a lap of the ‘Ring in 7mins 30secs.
Not bad at all.
7'56" just with Pzero is very good <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/amazed.gif"></A>
it means 7'48" - 7'50" with PZero Corsa :O :O
7:56 Ferrari California, 257 hp/tonne, PZero
7:55 Ferrari F430, 328 hp/tonne, PZero Corsa
No "funny dyno," mafalda? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
it means "funny dyno" or... the 360 CS'd be better... ? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
even so, California's performance are correct, my dear.
360 CS was based on 360 modena, a project launched in late 1998, more than 11 years ago...
try again <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
I'm not sure of the relevance of the 360 CS, considering I mentioned the F430.
Your estimated time for a California on Corsas is only 9 seconds from an F430 Scuderia on Corsas. That's 363 hp/tonne, 41% greater than the California. Are you sure 9 seconds sounds "right?" Shouldn't a mid-engined car with the track focus of the Scuderia, with 50 more horses and 385 fewer kg's be much faster than 9 seconds?
11 years...so you are saying technology can trump physics? Hp/wt is all that matters. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
Missan gets the Miracle, ferrari... dirty tricks... as usual.... ahahhaha
7:40 --- Mercedes SLS AMG, 571 PS/1647 kg
7:52 --- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren
same weight, -55ps, -130 Nm, no composite chassis... tricks? miracle??
try again, my dear
whats the point? the scuderia probably can do a better time
The SLS question is best left to axel to answer. I'd like to hear his explanation on that too. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
mafalda, does it sound to you like I'm saying Ferrari are using dirty tricks in this thread?
I'm trying to understand why when Nissan accomplishes a lap time faster than the specification indicates, you point to dirty tricks and funny dynos, yet you do not hold Ferrari to the same standard when an equally underrated car (by spec sheet) performs better than other Ferraris.
I'm not your dear.
Well, if the Scuderia probably can do a better time, couldn't the California? That gets us back to square one. You haven't changed anything.
The point is, certain fanboys cried bloody murder and called out Nissan for lying and cheating. Yet when their more favored marques, now using a technology fundamental to the the GT-R's track success, also post similarly fast times beyond the spec sheet, these cars are hailed as "impressive" or "very good," without an ounce of the strong suspicion they so vigorously applied before, against Nissan.
about GT-R I repeat for the 1000th times I didn't ever write "GT-R slower than kangoo 1.9d 65hp", but simply "Nissan esagerates with declaration".... no, for you every costumare can 7'26" with its GT-R...
I remeber you your funny teory about ists tyres dounlop are less extreme than Pzero Corsa... hahahahahah
and about California -F430, 5 years ago I wrote "F430'd do better, because it is no possible it as the same time of an old Porsche 996TT 420hp"... no, for many memebers those two laptimes was correct and the F430 was (as usual) a few failure....
"strangly", this is the only track were a 996TT can match against an F430....
oh yeah you're not a dear of mine, thanks to God
Every car on the list can do better, except:
<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
about the ferrari's laptime:
- if about, the laptime is correct
- if good, there's a trick <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
and magazines are reliable only when the verdict is "ferrari's been lost the comparo"
<A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
welcome in the Guibo's world
the scuderia probably has more margin since it beated cars such as the gtr and zr1 in other tests which have many seconds advantage on the ring
Where did I say every customer can get 7'26'' with the GT-R? I clearly said Nissan worked hard and got excellent conditions, plus ace test driver, for the 7'26" time. Only a complete retard would have missed that. That's not exaggeration. That's a best time lap. What, did you expect them to release worst time lap?
Considering customer have returned better lap times on MPSC and track-oriented Bridgestone non-runflats, it's a safe bet teh Dunlops are less extreme than Pzero Corsa.
Other tests are not the same as on the 'Ring. When the Scuderia supertest came out, I recall members on rennteam or ferrarichat were not too surprised. Some owners said the Scuderia is very low and doesn't react well to the 'Ring's bumpy compressions. Very much different from, say, Spa. The GT-R, on the other hand, smothers bumps and compressions as if they're not even there; its weight actually helps in this regard, being less deflected than other cars.
Here are some interesting points from the California supertest (vs F430 non-Scud).
Net gain from Galgenkopf to Doettinger Hoehe max speed
California: 136 kph
F430: 138 kph
Where you said "mafalda you're right"...? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/smile.gif"></A>
@ supertest@ GT-R did some corners 9 Kph faster than the scuderia (GT-R is 350 kg heavier....), but on the wet track is slower (and GT-R is 4wd)..... for me, dounlop are so extremer, but you can belive in the flying-donkey....
1. F430'd be better
2. don't forget California ha 7speed STC with very short gear ratio (6th speed 290kph...), it gives an hand on track....
3. CGT 1472 and 612hp 100-200 6.4s(@ supertest)
997 Gt2 1515kg and 530hp 100-200 7.8? (@supertest)
... same top speed @ Doettinger Hoehe..... oooooooooopsssssssssssssss
this argument is just a revange against me for the many time I've been destroyed the funny teories of yours.
Where did I say you were right that all GT-R customer can lap 7:26?
GT-R is heavier and understeers more which is made worse in the wet. What's so strange about that?
Did it occur to you that in some bumpy corners of the 'Ring with compressions, the Scuderia driver would have to back off because of ground clearance issues? Because of the GT-R's weight, it's not as affected by bumps and loves corners that coincide with crests. This has been verified in multiple tests.
The GT-R is also only 3 seconds slower on its all-weather tires at VIR. Faster than Z06. So tires are good, yes, but that doesn't explain the performance.