Nye Booed for pointing out Moon reflects the Sun

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by MR2T, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. I suppose being completely outside of nature might allow a supenatural being to somehow know the outcome of purely random events without causing them to cease to be truely random somehow, though that utterly defies all logic. I can't really say, though, because that's whack, but then again I really can't claim to begin to understand how something like God would really work.
  2. off the top of my head I don't have much, i'm at work but when i get home i'll answer this.

    But for now, let me ask you this: Did the disciples have faith?
  3. Well we're speaking about evidence of Jesus... now im agnostic but one area that does provide evidence for me that Jesus was divine and his actions were miraculous is with the 4 gospels. Its more than mere coincidence that these 4 writings (written at different times and by different people) all point to the same events and stories. They all cross over and recount similar stories and similar occurences, and i believe it does all magnify into a certain focal point of what is the truth... there is a LOT of interpretation that has to go into looking at all this though, and thats why i dont say it's proof and i remain agnostic.
  4. yes, but now you're trying to argue irrelevant semantics. for us today, what is the evidence?
  5. have you studied the historical accuracy of the Gospel writings? particularly Luke and John?
  6. yup.
  7. so you're already aware then, that the accuracy of the people and places it mentions is pretty much spot on?

    So why would they be spot on with pretty much everything, except to then make up a bunch of lies about the person of Jesus?
  8. because that's not evidence. and claiming that being "spot on" with respect to people and places =/= an irrefutable, concrete record of Jesus's divinity and his works.

    I may still believe it to have happened, but i can't say with certainty that the book called the Bible counts as evidence. so what other evidence is there?
  9. If you had no evidence for Jesus and the things he did, then you wouldn't even know he existed.
  10. So you're saying that even though a writer is spot on in everything he wrote about that can be proven by science, you're still not going to believe that he is accurate with the other things he wrote about?

    Of course it doesn't mean its irrefutable concrete evidence, if you're arguing against irrefutable concrete evidence, you're right. Nothing in history is irrefutable. You can come up with arguments against anything.

    You can't say with certainty that Jesus existed and did what the Bible says he did, that would mean you're looking for proof. I'm arguing that there is EVIDENCE, not proof.

    Perhaps you could consider the fact that many of the apostles, writers of the NT books, and early church leaders and members were martyred for their faith. A lot of these people had direct contact with Jesus. Is that not evidence?
  11. It is evidence, but I could also claim that it was very likely they were out of thier #$%#ing gourds.
  12. You know, in philosophy, one of the only notions that cannot be questioned is the idea that you're the only real thing in the universe, and that everything else is imagined.
  13. Cogito ergo sum.
  14. when did i say "no evidence for Jesus"? and you're missing my point by a few parsecs.

    anyways Danno, how is the bible evidence of anything? i take it as a valuable text (almost as valuable as tradition passed down), but i cant actually sit here and be like "this is undeniably true because...". i have to have faith that things in the bible really happened as described.

    this and apostles' martyring themselves arent really evidence of Jesus's divinity and truth of his works; they just show the apostles and disciples were very true believers in Jesus's message. this in and of itself may be a very compelling reason to be faithful to Christ's message (i certainly feel so), but it doesnt sate the needs of the skeptics demanding proof, or evidence. they're just not going to get it, unfortunately.

    this is why evangelicals like mclaren777 need to stop waving the bible wildly in the air and proclaiming it as evidence of God and his word, because they're trying to approach skeptics and non-believers in the way the "i need concrete evidence!" ilk approach things... and it totally doesnt work. well, that and Luke is a huge moron who ruins the faith for those he tries to convert...
  15. You're arguing against Danno, who is arguing for nothing more than the fact that there's evidence for Jesus. If this isn't the position you wanted to take, then you should rephrase some of your positions.
  16. You couldn't have said it much better.
  17. this began with him discussing faith in God. he also brought up faith in Jesus, but this clearly was referring to Jesus as God. i, too, was talking about the issue of evidence of Jesus' divinity, so i dont see any misunderstandings, especially since he's also mentioned Jesus's miraculous works, as have i.
  18. ok, why do you believe in the Bible? What made you believe?
  19. i liked the message the Church preached. it, and it through the bible, answered a lot of questions i had, and had a lot of good lessons for life. i asked for no proof or evidence or whatever, didnt tell God to "convince me" with a miracle or talking to me directly, because to me the Church spoke for him (i guess as it's supposed to <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/cool.gif"></A>).
  20. so if you had liked the message buddhism preached and it answered questions you had, you would have become a buddhist?

    I'm sorry, but I don't believe that will work for most people in this day and age. There are a ton of religions out there and if we simply allow them to pick and choose whatever they "like" or whatever answers questions for them, without presenting them with some credible evidence for why Christianity is the right way, you won't get a lot people becoming christians.

    As is written in 2 Timothy 4:3-4

    "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

    People are making up new religions, preaching what people want to hear. Often christianity just isnt what people want to hear. If you just let people choose based on whether they like hte message and it answers questions they need answering (and doing it in a way they want to hear) then you will lose people all over the place.
  21. Actually, i think true Christianity is more than just beliefs. I believe true Christianity is a way of life. It goes into the greater importance of living a life like Jesus - i.e. loving and forgiving, rather than just believing in God. Because any fool like Luke can believe in God, but what good is he to God if he does nothing for God's earth and his people? Actions speak louder than words.
  22. can you guys understand my hate for christians now?
  24. very true:

    Galatians 5:6 (faith expresses itself through love)

    "6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love."

    James 2:14-17 (faith without deeds is dead)

    "14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
  25. Oh! i get it! you're gay!

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