Pakistani and American Troops Exchange Fire

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Ron Simmons, Sep 25, 2008.

  1. #1 Ron Simmons, Sep 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  2. Not everyone is a member of this online community that the WSJ is.
     
  3. WASHINGTON � Pakistani and American ground troops exchanged fire along the border with Afghanistan on Thursday after the Pakistanis shot at two American helicopters, ratcheting up tensions as the United States increases its attacks against Qaeda and Taliban militants sheltering in Pakistan�s restive tribal areas.

    The two American OH-58 Kiowa reconnaissance helicopters were not damaged and no casualties were reported on either side from the ground fire. But American and Pakistani officials agreed on little else about what happened in the fleeting mid-afternoon clash between the allied troops.

    American and NATO officials said that the two helicopters were flying about one mile inside Afghan air space to protect an American and Afghan patrol on the ground when the aircraft were fired on by small-caliber arms fire from a Pakistani military checkpoint near Tanai district in Khost Province.

    In response, the American ground troops shot short bursts of warning fire, which hit well shy of the rocky, hilltop checkpoint, and the Pakistanis fired back, said Rear Adm. Gregory Smith, a spokesman for the Central Command.

    But a spokesman for the Pakistani army, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, said Pakistani forces fired warning shots at the American aircraft after they crossed into Pakistan�s territory in the area of Saidgai, in North Waziristan�s Ghulam Khan region. �On this, the helicopters returned fire and flew back,� General Abbas said.

    Local residents said that one of the two helicopters had entered inside Pakistan territory by about a mile, while the other hovered on the Afghan side of the border.

    �When our forces fired warning shots, we were a little scared of a possible retaliatory fire from the helicopters,� said one of the residents, Haji Said Rehman Gorbaz. �But we were happy to see the helicopter flying back into Afghanistan. We were happy that our forces fired at the helicopter.�

    The Pakistani president, Asif Ali Zardari, said Thursday that his nation�s military had fired only flares at the helicopters, seeming to draw a distinction with warning �shots,� which usually refers to bullets or other ordnance that could more seriously damage the helicopters.

    �They are flares,� Mr. Zardari said as he sat down to meet Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on the fringes of the United Nations General Assembly in New York.

    �They are flares just to make sure that they know they have crossed the borderline,� he added, noting that the Afghan-Pakistan frontier is a rugged, ill-marked division between the two nations.

    �Sometimes the border is so mixed that they don�t realize that they crossed the border,� Mr. Zardari said.

    Ms. Rice agreed that the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan is �very, very unclear,� and �one of the most inhospitable places.�

    But the clash drew immediate protest from Pentagon officials in Washington. �The flight path of the helicopters at no point took them over Pakistan,� a Pentagon spokesman, Bryan Whitman, told reporters at a briefing.

    Mr. Whitman said United States and NATO military officials were speaking to their Pakistani counterparts to determine what happened and to ensure there was no repeat, adding: �The Pakistanis have to provide us with a better understanding of why this took place.�

    General Abbas, the Pakistani spokesman, said the incident had been reported to NATO headquarters in Kabul and was under investigation by both Pakistani and NATO officials.

    Although the incident lasted just a few minutes, military officials and diplomats said the brief clash showed there was a risk of a much more serious, and lethal, misunderstanding along the border.

    Pakistani civilian leaders have denounced an incursion by American Special Operations forces into Pakistan on Sept. 3, which was authorized under orders given by President Bush in July, and the Pakistani Army has vowed to defend its border �at all costs.�

    �We will not tolerate any act against our sovereignty and integrity in the name of the war against terrorism,� Pakistan�s prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, told reporters on Wednesday. �We are fighting extremism and terror not for any other country, but our own country.�

    The latest clash on Thursday comes after a week of claims by Pakistani intelligence officials that American helicopters had strayed across the border from Pakistan, and that an American pilotless surveillance aircraft had crashed, apparently due to mechanical failure, on Pakistani territory.

    American officials denied these claims, saying they were being manufactured by Pakistani officials in response to rising anti-American sentiment in Pakistan following the increased American activities in the border area.

    Thom Shanker contributed reporting from New York. Salman Masood contributed reporting from Islamabad, Pakistan, and Ismail Khan from Peshawar, Pakistan.
     
  4. In the last week they've shot at American helicopters and claim to have shot down a UAV. This has been brewing, and I can only hope that they get their shit wired before a lot of people get killed.
     
  5. They're lucky the helicopters didn't decide to slaughter them
     
  6. stay the #$%# out of Pakistan and you wont get fired at. protect your booming poppy crops you had to destroy all of Afghanistan to obtain and stop instigating shit by flying in and out of foreign airspace.
     
  7. I'm sure that between Americans in helicopters and Paki troops, the Americans are the ones with GPS units showing where the hell the border is.

    They need to figure out where their country ends before some hot shot in an Apache gives them a rocky grave.
     
  8. Stop firing on them if you don't want your shit ruined. Say what you want about a bully, but he can and/or will still kick your ass.
     
  9. Or maybe the Pakistani troops ARE IN THEIR OWN #$%#ING COUNTRY. did that ever cross your mind? You got one thing right, these probably are a bunch of hotshots with no one commanding them, taunting troops on the afghan/Pakistani border for the exact reason of giving someone a "justified" rocky grave.
     
  10. It seems like only warning shots were fired, by both sides. did you even read the article? no damage to the helicopters, and I bet you its not because they missed.
     
  11. Seriously
     
  12. Doubtful, they don't know their ass from their elbows. They rely on Habeeb telling them the a rock over yonder is the border.

    Also, your position of Americans wanting to start a war with Pakistan is retarded. We already had our justification to kill everyone involved in this story, did we? Nope, so your argument falls on its ass.
     
  13. What the #$%# difference does it make if we fly over their country a few hundred yards? We're not landing, dropping ordinance, etc. The Packis should be glad there wasn't some cocky prick CO/OIC for local US forces. Could have been a lot worse.
     
  14. Could you be any more #$%#ing retarded? Did I say anything about a war? When you can't beat an enemy, what do you do? Taunt them, and see how far you can go without a large retaliation. You are disgusting to think we are justified in killing anyone.
    Go #$%# yourself, you hell-bound bigot.
     
  15. Yeah, so i guess pakistan taunted the us today
     
  16. Are you seriously that dumb? That is the exact attitude "what the #$%# is the difference..." that makes everyone in the world hate the US. We've walked all over everyone for a long time, and its going to bite us in the ass very soon.
     
  17. yup, sure. the pakis made the US fly into pakistani airspace.
     
  18. What is the difference exactly?
     
  19. The difference is that hopefully your way of life changes drastically during your lifetime, to the point that you don't know whether your family will be alive the next day.
     
  20. I was about to ask you the same thing, you said something about us trying to draw a reaction from them so we could give them a rocky grave. I noticed that you avoided acknowledging that we didn't kill anyone, even after they shot at us. What kind of stupid game would it be for us to TRY to taunt them, what does that gain us? Nothing, we don't want retaliation, we want to work with paki troops...if only they'd do their jobs. Someone shoots at you and you're usually justified to shoot back, get the concept?

    You're position is dumb/doesn't make sense.
     
  21. Again, the US troops probably know where the border is better than the Pakis do.
     
  22. Yes, I'm that dumb. Dumb enough to realize that the local area forces commander has the ultimate say so. Even with sat-comms stuff as readily apparent as tapwater in the feild these days, there's still a problem with the chain of command on a timing basis. When you only have so much time, somebody down at the lowest level has to decide. The CO/OIC could have just as well made the decision to annhialate those guys at the checkpoint, and deal with the decision later. It happens in all forms of military, and we're lucky we didn't get a gung-ho badass colonel to #$%# it all up.

    And quit cursing, Allah hates it.
     
  23. We flew into their airspace, whether it was a few hundred yards, or a mile--we were in their airspace. With the advanced GPS systems of helicopters the pilots do know exactly where they are, if those borders are incorrect the Paki bases lining the border are a pretty good #$%#ing indication where one country starts, and another one ends.

    Paki's hate the US Soldiers, if you didn't know. We are not allies in any way. If we fly into their airspace, they will give warning shots. Does this compute? Is that simple enough for you?

    On the contrary, if Paki helicopters entered the american territories of iraqi or afghan, taunting the US in similar fashion they would be promptly shot down with very little news coverage.

    You come into my house, I shoot you. You have no right to shoot back.
    I see your white ass in the street, I shoot at you, then I'm expecting a fire-fight. get the concept?
     
  24. how can you say that? borders according to whom? people that have been living in a country/region for hundreds of years? Century old mountain top bases lining the border? A digital line on a GPS screen? What makes a border real to you? google maps?
     
  25. At least you can admit that the US army is terribly flawed and the chain of command is complete shit all the day down to the individual pilot. If we had annihilated a paki base there would be thousands of people dead by now, on both sides.
     

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