Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Discussion in 'European Cars' started by nino1990, Sep 30, 2008.

  1. The GPS system is available for Japanese market for Japanese race tracks only.
  2. lol, you GTR haters will grasp onto any crumbs thrown at ya.

    Apart from the Ring benchmarks being overemphasised, the GTR has beaten (outlapped) the 911 Turbo in 99% of articles from tracks all over the world. Magazines, websites, tvshows...etc... they all show it to be faster. Thats about the only real FACT posted in this thread so far.

    That and this thread seems to be a breeding ground for noobs.
  3. Look at how insecure the GTR has made you Vette/Porsche/Whatever fanboys, srs lolz
  4. #79 ajzahn, Sep 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  5. Why don't you go suck porsche's dick already? You got a porsche themed user name so you probably love dick. You gay loser.
  6. #82 lambornima, Sep 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  7. #83 Jap Performance Eat Dust, Sep 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Certainly GTR was very insecure in the hands of a former F1 Champions... she lost to a GT2 MORE THAN TWO SECONDS PER LAP in an little Italian handling track...


    laptime / average speed / model
    1¡¦17¡¨600 - 118.76 Kph - Nissan GT-R
    1¡¦15¡¨528 - 122.07 Kph - Porsche 997 GT2

    IMHO this IS the most legitimate (supercar)comparison around the world so far.
  8. XBOX360>PS3
  9. #85 ScoRpFerrari, Sep 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    The GT-R's competition is the Turbo, let the V-Spec take care of the GT2, and Scud. I know you're just trolling though, you can't be this stupid.
  10. girlfriend > video games
  12. #88 ajzahn, Sep 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Why the Lap Times Are a Bunch of Bull

    By Alistair Weaver

    If you want to see the ugliest cars in the world, just spend a little time hanging on the spectator fence at the N?rburgring. You'll see stripes, polka dots, matte-black panels and flapping canvas shrouds. Sometimes the cars barely run, sometimes they break down, and sometimes they even catch fire.

    These are prototypes of future production cars, ugly in their crude bodywork and obvious camouflage, and sometimes they expire under the pressure of durability testing on this winding, 12.9-mile circuit called the Nordschleife.

    But if you want to see the fastest cars in the world, you also come to this test track deep in the mountainous forests of the Eifel. For the modern sports car, a quick lap time at the N?rburgring has become a rite of passage, the automotive equivalent of a first kiss.

    The N?rburgring Nordschleife is the grandest test track in the world, impossibly demanding and impossibly dangerous. If you're Aston Martin or Porsche, Acura or Nissan, Cadillac or Corvette, the N?rburgring is where you come to prove your car has the stuff of legends.

    And then you advertise it with a video.

    Making Headlines
    Push them and most engineers will admit that the 'Ring's iconic status owes more than a little to the power of the marketing men. "Twenty years ago, the N?rburgring was really only used by the German industry," says Tony Shute, the project manager for the new Lotus Evora. "But then the Japanese took an interest. Now so many manufacturers have facilities at the 'Ring that it's like Disneyland."

    Over the past 20 years, the Japanese and, more recently, the Americans have capitalized on the prestige afforded by a 'Ring time. "Nissan was really the first company to exploit the marketing potential of the 'Ring," says Dirk Schoysman, a well-known test-driver regularly employed by Aston Martin and Nissan. "Within the industry, the 'Ring had always provided an important benchmark, but then it became important for the public, too." In fact, it was Schoysman in a Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 V-spec that set off the current frenzy when he managed 7:59 in 1996, beating a record set by a Porsche 911.

    Nissan observed a kind of anniversary of its effort when it took the 480-horsepower 2008 Nissan GT-R to the N?rburgring in September 2007 and set a record 7:38, then went back in June 2008 and set an unofficial 7:29. Bruce Robinson, the senior development engineer for the 2008 Nissan GT-R in the U.S., says, "A decade ago we went to the 'Ring with the GT-R and beat Porsche. It then became a way of judging our cars around the world. With the R35, we wanted to go back there and reestablish the record for Nissan."

    Robinson notes that a 'Ring time has become like "an international seal of approval." For Kazutoshi Mizuno, the chief vehicle engineer of the new GT-R, a trip to the 'Ring was an important component in the development process. "It helps give the car credibility," continues Robinson. "It's not just for the marketing but for engineering, too. It's a place where you go to prove your manhood."

    The Standard of Measure

    A 'Ring time has become such a part of motoring folklore that all manufacturers value it. In May 2008, Cadillac concluded an extensive development program at the N?rburgring with its supercharged, 556-horsepower 2009 Cadillac CTS-V by setting loose GM development engineer John Heinricy, who managed 7:59 in a car with an automatic transmission.

    Chevrolet weighed in with the supercharged, 638-hp 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR in late June, and there was no doubt it had the GT-R in its sights. Corvette test engineer Jim Mero went on to record a 7:26, and within days the video had been posted on YouTube side-by-side with the GT-R video. In August, Chrysler ratcheted up the hype with a lap time set by a 600-hp 2008 Dodge Viper ACR.

    Kazutoshi Mizuno and his Nissan crew are expected to return to the Nordschleife with a V-spec version of the GT-R R35 to take back the record. In the meantime, everyone's watching a comparison of the GT-R and ZR1 laps on YouTube.

    A Test Track and a Racetrack

    When Dr. Otto Creutz and his fellow Adenau businessmen began making plans in 1925 to create a grand racing track near their little town in the Eifel Mountains, they envisioned it as a test track as well as a racing circuit, much like the dedicated automotive facilities at Brooklands, Indianapolis and Monza.

    Once the track opened for the Eifelrennen on June 17, 1927, a long, winding road course had been laid out on the crests of some hills above a small valley. The track took its name ? Nurburg-Ring ? from a fortress built in the 12th century that overlooked the valley. It was the longest dedicated racing circuit in the world, a combination of the 14.2-mile Nordschleife and the 4.8-mile Sudschleife. The Nordschleife alone had 172 corners, some 88 left-handers and 84 right-handers.

    The track has evolved over the years, especially since a new F1 circuit was built over much of the site of the original Sudschleife in 1984. Now the remaining Nordschleife measures 12.9 miles and has 73 different corners: 33 lefts and 40 rights.

    Testing, Testing

    Just as Dr. Creutz foresaw, the circuit's length and its wide variety of corners are the keys to its appeal to car manufacturers. "There are some fantastic corners that allow you to assess a car's handling at very high speed," says Tony Shute.

    "We can do durability testing of the brakes, analyze the effects of lift-off oversteer and fine-tune the electronic systems. For example, early versions of the Bosch stability control system would shut the engine down every time you went over a jump. We take all our cars to the 'Ring and the Evora has been there at a very early stage in its development."

    Neil Rayner, the vehicle attributes and proving manager at Aston Martin, shares the enthusiasm of his colleague at Lotus. Under his direction, Aston spends 40-50 days a year at the 'Ring. He says, "The high lateral forces, extreme braking demands and high speeds make it good for durability testing. The long climbs are also good for cooling and you can get a lot done in a relatively short time."

    Aston Martin's durability testing for a new model includes 400 laps of the 'Ring, the equivalent of about 5,000 miles. "In these tests our lap time will remain consistent to within 15-20 seconds," Rayner says. At the same time, the Aston Martin engineer does inject a note of skepticism about its usefulness as a test facility: "It's very useful but it's not the be-all-and-end-all," he says.

    Aston is part of the "industry pool," a syndicate that rents the circuit for 15 weeks each year and allows car manufacturers and tire companies to share track time. The pool is governed by gentlemanly rules of engagement that dictate that a manufacturer must not photograph or time its rivals.

    The 'Ring Time Protocols

    Given the extraordinary hype surrounding 'Ring times, there is a surprising amount of confusion about what constitutes a timed lap. The published times, for example, don't represent a full lap of the circuit. There is a 350-foot neutral zone with a 50-km/h (31-mph) speed limit in front of the old pits that allows cars to safely enter and leave the circuit. The lap, therefore, finishes just in front of the old pits and starts on the pit exit, just before the cars descend to the section known as the Hatzenbach. Convention dictates that timed laps should be set from a standing start.

    There are some loosely defined rules for a lap, but there is little or no accountability. Although the German car magazine Sport Auto publishes some independent 'Ring times, the times published by manufacturers are not independently verified. "If someone wants to cheat, they can," says Schoysman, "but it's a matter of honor. Sooner or later a member of the media will try and match it and if they can't get close to the time, people will be suspicious."

    The whole process is not without controversy. "There is no rulebook, so people will do whatever they can get away with," reckons Aston Martin's Rayner. Neither Aston nor Lotus chooses to publish lap times, even though both companies admit to recording times for internal use. According to Lotus' Shute, "The times are not necessarily an accurate truth."

    AMG is another company that tests extensively at the 'Ring, yet won't publish times. A spokesman for AMG told us that lap times "differ a lot because of the driver's influence, especially at the Nordschleife. That's why reference times are difficult to get and to approve."

    By contrast, Porsche publishes the 'Ring times achieved by ex-racing driver Walter Rohrl in each of its cars, but despite repeated requests, the company refused to contribute to this article or reveal how its times are achieved.

    The World's Test Track

    Over the past decade, the legend of the N?rburgring has gone global. Many of the major manufacturers have built not only workshops but sales outlets near the track. There are all kinds of driving schools and automotive-themed entertainment, notably the well-known BMW Ring-Taxi.

    The iconic status of the 'Ring and the importance of a quick lap time are also due in no small part to the accessibility of the circuit to the public. On days when public running is allowed, anyone can turn up, pay ?19 ($28) and complete a lap in a normal road car. Members of the public must return to the pits at the end of each lap and are therefore unable to complete a full circuit. Enthusiasts, therefore, measure their times from the bridge at the end of the main straight to the gantry at its start.

    But with the N?rburgring's popularity should come responsibility. As Aston's Neil Rayner admits, "It's too easy for a manufacturer to get carried away by lap times." Perhaps there should be a universally recognized and independently verified standard. After all, this epic circuit deserves to be treated with respect. It's not just a marketing gimmick.

    >>> www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=131934
  13. XBOX360>PS3>gtr
  14. You should read carefully that thread, even the "Road Car" Gallardo LP560-4 raped the GTR easily(under the hands of legend like Prost, of course).

    I just wish Lambo would make something like "Gallardo LP560-4 Superleggera" in future to raped the GTR V-spec again.
  15. I guess this explains why the private tests of the 997 turbo produced lap times a lot slower that the ones posted by Porsche.
  16. 7'15".... <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
  17. An obviously BS lap time that GTR fanboys stressed over and over again is finally proven to be exactly that, BS. So what's there to be insecure about?
  18. Dauer 962 <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
  19. Proven by a competitor? I see a conflict of interests here. In every single test that the GT-R was put against the 997 turbo, the GT-R as emerged victorious.
  20. Bloody morons. Claims by Nissan = BS, claims by Porsche = BS, claims by manufacturers in general = BS. We need some independant tests done.
  21. sport auto!
  22. Fantastic, let's compare the GT-R to a car that cost about 3 times more, has 72bhp more, weights less, and has has half the seats.
  23. What's strange was that the sport auto test on a partially wet track was faster 8s than what Porsche was able to achieve. What's also stange was that sport auto also tested the 997 turbo and it was 6s slower than the gt-r.
  24. But then again you are right. No matter how fast the GTR is around a track and/or in a straight line I just can't get to like it. This isn't me being a Porsche/Corvette/whatever fanboy either. I'm no train-fanboy and I ended up rooting for that Jap train in the Great GTR race TG episode. So ya whatever I'll stop trolling against the GTR now and I'll let you GTR guys have your laptimes and accelerations times.

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