Porsche's future Bugatti buster?

Discussion in 'European Cars' started by MuscleCarHeart, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. wow, it takes 0.5mph off the top speed.

    this post is irrelevent because:
    have you ever noticed at a track like Ehra Lessien, where the Veyron is tested that there is lots and lots of windsocks. they take cross-winds into consideration. top speed tests on a straight road (like Ehra Lessien) have to be done fowards and backwards along the track within an hour of each other, and the AVERAGE v-max is then used as the top speed record. the presence of 10mph crosswind is going to be negated.

    in the case of Nardo Prototipo, its a circular banked track, you work it out genious, its technically going to have a crosswind from both directions during the lap, a headwind (which would be far more detrimental to top speed) and a tail wind (which helps). so technically, the effect of this cross wind is 0.

    also, since when would lateral velocity have any inpact on the v-max. believe it or not, but a change in the direction of the tyres has sweet FA difference is changing v-max...you could say that changing the direction of the tyres involves the power steering pump having to work, draining power from the engine, which would make the top speed 0.0002mph slower than is possible.

    Please, spare the bullshit.

    what I and everybody who agrees with me was saying, is that engineers don't set out to make a car generally heavier to increase its top speed. the Veyron is just heavy, in fact they were trying to cut weight off the car because its a bit of a fatty.
    I was saying that they only put on weight in specific areas (most likely the nose) in order to correct the behaviour of the car (with the example of adding weight into the nose, it would increase the force exerted by the front suspension onto the road, increasing grip and making the car steerable, to counteract the aerodynamic tendancies of the nose to pitch up)

    normally on sc.net, there is much heated discussion relating to these things. when EVERYONE (including engineers) disagrees with you, you are just wrong. if i were you, i wouldn't respond this thread until you have done a fair bit of reading on the topic.
     
  2. #77 VIPER 5, Jul 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    but you said that the "stability" effect increased top speed. It doesn't. Thats up to gearing, aerodynamics, and torque.

    the only exception would be if the manufacters said "Ok, the car is stable at 200 mph, but it doesn't feel stable at 205, so we will govern it to 200 mph"

    but what I said would be assuming the car is "stable" at any speed.
     
  3. Bugatti4evr, I'm not arguing against your points. Each one you've made is valid regarding top speed, yet, none of them dissprove my point.

    My point was that Amazing Asian was wrong when he said the Veyron would have a higher top speed if it were lighter. I think I've proven that wrong sufficiently.

    Baker427, so far there is a mountain of evidence in my favor, and then you on the other side saying "It doesn't."
    So I should take your word for it?

    AMGrulz, thanks for finding that for me. I did not remember it being Car and Driver's Csaba Csere, and I didn't want to go on a witch hunt for it if I didn't know where to even start looking.
     
  4. Honestly, I don't think porsche will do it
     
  5. Quote from BenFenner
    "A car's top speed is affected by how much it weighs."
    thats wrong

    the point AA was making is that the veyron would have a higher top speed if it were lighter, because it would have taller gearing.

    /end thread.
     
  6. Bugatti4evr wrote:
    "thats wrong"

    I still don't see how. Seriously, I'd like for you to tell me. I'm not trying to be right here, I'm trying to find the right answer.

    Bugatti4ever wrote:
    "the point AA was making is that the veyron would have a higher top speed if it were lighter, because it would have taller gearing."

    I'll take that giant leap with you, just to end this argument. If that indeed was the case, my ass hurts now. And why didn't someone point that out earlier? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>


    Edit: Wait, now you're trying to say the Veyron's top speed is rev limited, instead of drag limited? Dream on. I don't know how much more of this unsubstantiated nonsense I can take.

    There is an awful lot of:
    "Duh! The earth is flat you ____ing moron. There is no way it is a sphere."

    And not a lot of:
    "Here's the math/physics/image from space to prove it."
     
  7. Refer to #6.
     
  8. i'm not saying that the Veyron is rev limited, im saying that taller gearing helps with top speed. DUH!!!!!!!!!

    seriously, read a book before opening your pie hole again.
     
  9. Porsche cant hang, and the fanboys are getting mad
     
  10. looks cool, but i'de rather have the veyron
     
  11. and the only thing porsche fan's are beating are thier own "members" while staring at the Veyron. Seriously, give credit where credit is moet deserved, children,
     
  12. Question is though, will the plane fly?
     
  13. holy shit dude. seriously you try too hard to prove people wrong and make yourself seem smarter before you take the time to grasp the whole situation.

    If it had taller gearing, it would have more power uptop to counter the drag. #$%#.
     
  14. Power war doesn't seem to be the trend at Porsche... they do high power limited editions of their cars, but for one generation to the other, the power jump is usually not so huge. I don't see them chasing the extreme Veyron... but maybe I am wrong...
     
  15. Number 5 is false as the car this thread is based on.
     
  16. That's just the way it works on this business. Everyone wants to be number 1. The great challenge would be putting both on a track to see wich one is the best.
     
  17. Taller gearing will always help top speed in a rev limited car, but this does not apply to the Veyron, as it is not rev limited.

    Taller gearing can help, but usually hinders top speed in a drag limited car (which the Veyron is, speed governor notwithstanding).

    Can you show me that the Veyron is above it's power peak when it is travelling at it's top speed (the only case where taller gearing would help)?
     
  18. #93 BenFenner, Jul 13, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Firstly:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem


    Secondly:
    Maybe you'll be the one to show me that the Veyron is above it's power peak when it is travelling at it's top speed?
     
  19. I really, really, REALLY want a 1024x768 version of this picture!!
     
  20. "The stability gained at Bonneville by adding weight is directly applicable to the top speed runs that Bugati has done on an asphalt surface."

    Haha, nothing besides top speed? so whats this about stability?
    EDIT: Btw, you, yes you, claimed that.
     
  21. #96 Yourallfullofit, Jul 13, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    And maybe you can show us how adding weight to the Veyron, not the Honda tested in that C + D article at bonneville salt flats, will make it go faster. I want to see actual proof, not speculation because it worked with a Honda.

    Please?
     
  22. Once again:
    I never said having more weight in a car was better for anything except obtaining a higher top speed.


    "Haha, nothing besides top speed? so whats this about stability?"

    The increased stability is the reason for the increased top speed. If you're saying that the increased stability is a benefit in itself, then you're right, and I was wrong. Sorry. Let me re-phrase.

    Having more weight in a car is better for two reasons. Increased stability, and therefore, increased top speed.

     
  23. #98 BenFenner, Jul 13, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Sure thing. Take a look at my second post on page 6.

    http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=94844&bottom=50

    Edit: You seem to have read the quote from the article wrong. The resident salt flat guru told them that adding weigh was a trick of the trade for top speed runs, implying that all manner of cars benefit from it, not just their Honda S2000.
     
  24. #99 NeoGoatboy, Jul 13, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  25. #100 BenFenner, Jul 13, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    The Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, Bugatti, Lamborghini, (plus others; Lancia?) conglomerate/consortium seems to have been blurring the lines between the companies ever sinse this whole thing started a while back.
     

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