Question for all you high RPM guys

Discussion in '2000 Honda S2000' started by mephisto, Jul 2, 2004.

  1. Having never owned a car that needs to be revved extremely high to get it going fast, does it get old/obnoxious after a while?

    I would rather own a car that all around good, that is easy to drive in traffic but can still be fun to race.

    I test drove the TSX and TL type S, which were fun to drive, but I couldn't imagine buying such cars or living with them. I think it would be horrible to drive in moderate stop-go traffic, it would seem that you would have to rev the engine really high all the time just to keep up with everyone else in traffic. Plus you would be hearing the intake/exhaust noise all the time when you revved that high.

    Please no attacks or "f-ing ignorant" sayings. I am just curious.
     
  2. Re:

    Don't worry, if you are talking about honda's high revving engines, they won't get old/obnoxious within 10 years. The materials used to make the engines are designed to withstand high rpm.

    TSX and TL Type S. I've seen the TSX's torque curve, and to my surprise, it makes more torque at 3000 then at 6000rpm, curtainly, that car's torque is enough for city driving. And for the TL type S, this car has a relatively flat torque curve, it's definitely not a revvy type of car, so im sure you can live with it too. Oh wait, are u talking about the S2000 or TSX and TL?
     
  3. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    ---
    Having never owned a car that needs to be revved extremely high to get it going fast, does it get old/obnoxious after a while?

    I would rather own a car that all around good, that is easy to drive in traffic but can still be fun to race.

    I test drove the TSX and TL type S, which were fun to drive, but I couldn't imagine buying such cars or living with them. I think it would be horrible to drive in moderate stop-go traffic, it would seem that you would have to rev the engine really high all the time just to keep up with everyone else in traffic. Plus you would be hearing the intake/exhaust noise all the time when you revved that high.
    ---

    You have a point. It isn't so bad in town but once you're on the freeway, the S2000 is a horrible car for cruising. It only manages 18mph/1000rpm in 6th gear. In other words, 6th gear in the S2000 is like 4th gear in a normal car.

    The S2000 is a great second car if you have something that is more relaxing to drive and you just want something you can blast around the back roads on sunny weekends.

    The clutch is light and forgiving so it wouldn't be terrible in rush-hour stop-and-go traffic but once you get some open road and want to cruise, then you'd best get out your earplugs.

    The first time I stretched its legs on the motorway, I found myself wishing I'd bought a Lotus Elise.
     
  4. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    Actually, i didn't nean to quote the whole thing, sorry.

    Anyways, for ur last sentence, "I found myself wishing I'd bought a Lotus Elise," I don't quite understand what you are trying to say.
     
  5. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    I didn't mean old/obnoxious in terms of reliability. I meant does it get annoying/tiresome to drive the S2000 like that: revving it really high to just keep up with traffic. I don't like to hear my cars' intake/exhaust note all the time. Sorry I mentioned the TSX and TL type S, but those were the only two Honda sport models I ever drove. I am referring to the S2000.
     
  6. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    Hmmm, i don't think it would get annoying to drive the S2000 like that. WHy? well, I drive a honda accord myself, it has 125hp and 137lb/ft of torque. It's about 50lbs heavier than the S2000, which is pretty close. To tell u the truth, I never have to rev the engine above 4000rpm to keep up with the traffic. My car is not powerful at all, but I only have to press down on the gas pedal by around 1 cm and my car will keep up with the traffic flow. By the way, my accord is automatic, too. For the S2000, i've seen its torque curve, and it makes more torque than my car at any rpm, plus the fact that it has a 6-speed manual trans. Thus, I don't think u would have to rev the car really high to just keep up with other cars. But then, since this is a roadster, I believe it's a louder than family cars, right?
     
  7. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    Stop lying. What Honda has more torque than horsepower? A diesel Honda? Maybe I should have specifically asked someone who actually owns one and drives it in traffic.

    And in terms of reliability, I highly doubt the 0 - 60 time of 5.5 seconds or whatever it is, is achievable reliably with the needed clutch drops at 6000 rpm or higher without having to replace the clutch really soon.
     
  8. #8 Honda rulez, Jul 11, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    First, I’m not lying, my accord does produce more torque than hp. Don’t believe me? Check this out:

    http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2047

    Hey, my car is only a 1992 accord, it’s not that hard to actually own one rite? It’s not expensive and it’s not rare. Why would I have to lie? If I were to lie, I would’ve said that I own a Ferrari or Lambourgini, not a Honda, right? Or at least I would say that my accord can do 14 sec stock.

    According to motortrend, they have achieved the best time by dropping the clutch at 5000rpm. The thing is, not everyone will floor the gas at every stoplight. And not many people are stupid enough to do that all the time, right?
     
  9. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    I didn't think you were lying about owning a Honda Accord, every one owns one. Everyone who wants a John Doe sedan gets a Honda Accord/Toyota Camry and if they really don't care they get the Ford Taurus. I thought you were lying about the HP and torque numbers. I thought you were talking about a new car because I was talking about a new car. I wouldn't compare my really old BMW 3 series to the 2004 3 series, they are too different.

    And your next point is exactly what I was trying to say the whole time. Since not everyone will drive this car like a maniac, it should be easier to drive fast. You would have to floor the gas at a stoplight and shift at the redline to get those performance numbers. You even said it would be stupid to do that all the time. If the engine had more power down in lower RPM then the car would go fast without having to be thrashed. If you don't thrash it, rev it above 5000RPM, then it is sluggish.
     
  10. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    Oh, i thought i said that my accord's a 1992 one......

    I think I've said this before, but i'll repeat again, the old S2000 makes 133lb/ft of torque at 3000rpm. And that's already more than many compact cars, plus the S2000 has a 6-speed manaul trans with really short gearing, so driving at low rpm isn't really that bad. Of course, it's nothing worth talking about. But seriously, that amount of power is enough for city driving. Hmmm, I think u need to floor the gas and shift at the redline for most cars now, unless it's a muscle car. Why would u have to go fast for city driving? The speed limit for the US is 30mph, right? Unless you are trying to break the law, why would you have to drive so fast?
     
  11. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    You still don't really understand what I am saying. I am not talking about fast driving. I am not talking about driving at a constant speed. Power at high RPM engine + really close gear ratios + stop-go city driving = sounds like uncomfortable driving to me. The closer the gear ratios means that when you shift up a gear the RPMs do not drop as much. Of course with your automatic Accord with 4 gears, has further spaced ratios, you won't get into the higher RPM range and stay there to keep up with traffic. Plus your Accord would shift automatically once the RPMs get high enough unless you force it to not shift by flooring the gas.

    Then you say "Hmmm, I think u need to floor the gas and shift at the redline for most cars now, unless it's a muscle car." so again, why wouldn't you have to in this car. That is all I was asking. At least Jon Gwynne gave some insight to my question.
     
  12. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    So, let me try again and see if i get it rite this time. To you, it's uncomfortable to be exposed to excessive engine noise + constantly shifting gears. You like a car that has low end torque so that when u want to pass someone, u don't have to shift down in order to get the job done. Is this what you mean?
     
  13. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    I was asking if someone found it annoying to drive this car in stop and go traffic, ONLY IN TRAFFIC!!!! How many times can I say it?!? It is not the slow driving, it isn’t passing, it is in the constant stop and go traffic that I am asking if it gets tedious. This has nothing to do with my car or passing.

    If you have ever driven with a manual gear box in heavy traffic, the cars speed up then slow down, then maybe stop then start all over again, It is a real killer on the clutch and your left foot.

    I think it would get tedious because it has a high RPM engine and a close ratio gear box. It would have to have a really close ratio gear box because to get that 0 - 60 time, the gear box would have to be setup so that when you upshift at the redline and the RPMs drop, the RPMs would still have to be high enough so that the engine would be in the VTEC range of 6000 RPMs. So that would make this car very bad for city driving.

    Even with every manual the 1st gear is basically useless, it is just there to get you immediately moving. You just look like an asshole when you drive in traffic without shifting, can you imagine traveling at 20 MPH in 1st gear for more than a couple of seconds with the engine screaming? People just look at you and think “WTF”. I guess you would have to drive a manual in traffic to understand that. Since you are driving in traffic you don’t want to rev the engine really high because you aren’t going anywhere fast and you are not racing. And I think with the close ratio gear box you would have to shift a lot more to keep the RPMs lower. And since this car makes power at really high RPM the gears need to be short because it makes little power down low and short gears help with that. But short gears give the car a lower maximum road speed per gear so you would have to up shift more often also.

    And all I was trying to find out is if it gets annoying in traffic.
     
  14. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    Ok, I hope I get it right this time :p

    I haven't driven the S2000 before, but judging from its torque number at 3000rpm, it's enough for NORMAL TRAFFIC. There's no need to rev to 9000rpm just to get to 30mph.

    I know I can't say much about this, but most people find that shifting gears in the S2000 is a pleasure. But no doubt, if u always do it, it gets tiring.

    What I don't understand is, why would you have to rev the engine high when the car already produces enough torque at low rpm for CITY DRIVING?

    If you are driving a corolla manual at 1st travelling at 20mph for a couple of seconds people would like you and think "WTF." But for S2000, people would look at you and think, "wow that guy is driving is driving a nice car, gotta love that sound." But true, if you wanna keep the rpm low in this car, it's rather hard.

    Basically, if you can't stand high rpm, don't buy this car. Does this answer your question?
     
  15. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    I can't stand you why do you even bother, you can't possibly answer that question so you should just shut up. Actually I should be asking myself why do I bother talking to someone like you who doesn't know anything yet think you do. I don't know everything, no one does, but at least I don't try to talk about something I don't know anything about. I can admit that, can you?
     
  16. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    Like I've said, English is my 2nd language, so i might not be understanding things people say or i might not saying things in a clear way.

    Well of course no one knows everything, including myself. In fact i jsut graduated from high school, how can possibly know everything? And I've never said i know everything.
     
  17. Re: Question for all you high RPM guys

    Red Dragon lay off, he is only trying to talk to you.

    And yes, I understand what you mean about the constant high rpms and shifting and yes it would be unconfortable for me to have to drive like that, constantly having to shift. If you ask me, that could quickly wear your transmission out doing those frequent shifts.

    I always love to cruise around at low RPMs and yes this car would be quiet a pain to cruise around in.
     
  18. No it doesn't get obnoxious, esp when headers, s/c & cai add about 50 midrange.
     
  19. I think any car is terrible to drive in stop-and-go traffic

    This car was designed to be mild mannered and easy to drive at normal speeds, and to have some real snot when you push it. Having driven it for about 3 hours, I think it achieved that goal rather well.

    Never had to drive it in stop-and-go traffic, but I did have to drive it in the nearest conditions you'll get to that in my hometown, and it was not difficult at all (once I got accustomed to the clutch/throttle trade off, and to the fact that I didn't have to rev the hell out of it to get going at an average speed)

    No, I don't think it would get obnoxious or tedious at all.

    as for dropping the clutch to get that kind of acceleration, it has a clutch very similar to the triple stage ones used in many racing classes, it was adapted from the Bar Honda F1 car for use on the S2000. It is extremely durable, the car was built to take that kind of abuse, it handles it just fine. And 5.4 seconds is attainable with a 5000rpm clutch drop, that's faster than a Mustang GT with better potential gas mileage, while still a roadster.

    one of the few TRUE sports cars on the market today.
     
  20. Every honda has more torque than horsepower below 5252 rpm...
     
  21. The S2000 is just as tractable as any other small car, of course if your used to an LS1 where you can nearly take off in 6th, then yes it will be annoying but my Civic (just a normal Civic) is just fine to drive in traffic, even if you do have to shift more often than in a V8.
     
  22. Probably a long dead discussion but having owned an S2000 (an '03) and driven it in many of the conditions listed above, I can say without a doubt it can be extremely annoying to drive.

    Do NOT get me wrong - the advantages FAR outweigh the drawbacks for me, but if you are not willing to put up with the quirks of the car, you will hate it.

    I am willing to rev the engine. I am not afraid of that, as so many people seem to be. When you design an over-square engine with small displacement, it can rev higher with less stress than a long stroking big-block V8. It handles the revs better. I do not even notice it is revving to 3000 or even 4000 RPM. It seems to be idling at that range. No excessive noise, no vibration, no effort. Shifting between 4&5k in normal traffic is easy and painless, and quiet enough to not draw attention to yourself. Floor the gas, rev to 6k, and shift every time at 6k and you get a reasonably quick car that feels like it's being pushed, without all the unneeded attention of the local law enforcement. Rev it to 9k and it accelerates at a pretty good clip. It is not a dragster. It is not a cruiser. It is not a luxury car. It is only a car that can easily be driven below 6k in a normal manner and can get fun if pushed farther.

    I don't know about you but when I want to go fast, I don't want to guess that I'm actually going. I want to shift hard, corner hard, accelerate hard, and plain drive hard. This is not getting accomplished if you rev low, shift early and generally take it easy on the car, which is what it sounds like people want to do.

    I for one absolutely love the Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde attitude of the car. Mild mannered Miata one second, quick car the next, all with just a raise of the RPM.

    I love it, but also realize it's not perfect and can easily be hated. Cruising on the freeway is easy if you can manage to deal with the road noise coming in through the rag top. The biggest complaint I have is the size of the car on long trips. With not much space to move, anything greater than about 2 or 3 hours tends to make my legs stiff.

    Oh and to answer that age old question in this thread: In any level of traffic, the car does not need to be revved to match the cars around you. The only possible exception is if you're in heavy interstate traffic, pulled to the side of the road and want to pull out in a small gap. That's happened to me exactly once in the 4 years I've owned mine, and I enjoyed every second of accelerating from 0 to *ahem* the speed limit...
     

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