Re: 2002 BMW M3 Vs 2002 Pontiac Trans Am Firehawk

Discussion in '2001 BMW M3' started by BMW M, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. You would like to test this car against the camaro, but why wont you test it against a vette. The Z06 smokes this car in every way. If your talking about prestige, it all depends on what people like. I for one would never buy a bmw for reliability, for other things but not reliability. I have'nt owned one, but some people I know have them. They need just as much srvicing as any other cars in it's class. They also cost an arm and a leg to get fixed.
     
  2. D. personally i think that the firehawk has a 1/4 mile chance, but which car would be better for an excursion around the N'Ring? also, the luxury is an absolute landslide in favor of the M3.

    R. Ill have to agree with my friend here. 1/4 times could be all some people car about, but lap times at actaul race tracks show the overall balance of speed and turning capabilities, and again, the luxury is far superior to any pontiac.
     
  3. No replacement for displacement? That's a load. Such a replacement exists, and it's called engineering.
     
  4. Firehawk (they are really fast)
     
  5. Don't reply again until you learn to spell. That is all. (BY the way, Ferraris handle better than M3s, Corvettes are faster than M3s, Bentleys are more comfortable and luxurious than M3s, Cadillacs are more luxurious than M3s, and Volvos are safer than M3s).
     
  6. It was actually developed in the middle-late 90s, it is completely different from the LT1. Whatever you want to say about its engineering or history, it gets the job done, its as fast as an m3 and costs 15k less.
     
  7. If you people dont stop flaming in this worthless, pointless and stupid thread by a stupid comparsion. Im going to delete this thread.

    Back to topic,

    These cars are two DIFFERENT cars, end of comparsion. Game Over..everyone go home.
     
  8. How so?!

    Ok M3=4 Seater
    Firehawk= 4 seater
    M3=Sports Car
    Firehawk=Sports Car
    M3 price Range=50K+ here in the US
    Firehawk Price Range=30K here in the US, Over 50K in Germany
    BOTH are well over 300 HP
    BOTH get 1/4 mile times about the Same (Firehawk a lil faster)
    BOTH get a high G rating on the skid pad
    BOTH have great breaking
    I can keep on going, and if u want proof, i have plenty of proof

    'nuff said
     
  9. You just keep getting embarrased don't you little boy? I keep proving you wrong as previous posts of mine in this thread are established evidence. M3's have the handling tendancies of Ferraris as which no F-body even slightly resembles, and NO corvettes are not faster than M3s DUMBASS!!!. Read my previous posts in this thread with evidence from Road and Track. The base corvette does 0-60 in 4.7 while the M3 does it in 4.6 seconds. And the M3 is a very comfortable ride which no individual can deny, and the M3 is far more technologically advanced and luxurious than a caddy. And as far as safety goes, read my previous post on the abundance of safety features listed which the M3 in a category of its own. And you still haven't answered my question you moron: Name an American car that has the diversity of an M3? Which American car has luxury, premium technology, top notch safety, astonishing braking, great performance, comfort, and superior handling? Because the firehawk certainly does not fit under a majority of these prestigous categories.
     
  10. You sir need a life. Reality hurts huh?
     
  11. I need a life b/c you've been proven wrong? I'm sorry but I think you're the one who needs to get a life instead of coming up with ridiculous comparisons of cars in different classes. I'm sure if we compared lives you would look the sorry loser that you truly are.
     
  12. i think all of you are forgetting about the 1992 slp firehawk competition, quarter mile 13.2, 12.2 on slicks
     
  13. Ok.. I created an account to respond to this comparison, why I am not sure. I dont know when the most recent post was to this. No dates or times on the posts.. But I have to say this. I own a M3, and I own TWO cars with LS1s (well one has a LS6, but close enough) To compare a WS6 to an M3, someone had to be smoking some good stuff. As for some of the qouted times on 0-60 performance, I almost started to Cry. I dont know what person or thing got a WS6 to run to 60 in sub 5 second runs, but they most be some kind of great Driver. Ive taken ALL of my cars to the track, Quarter and a Road course. (Great Lakes Drag Strip, and Road America in Winsconsin). The best I could get my Camaro, mind you does not have SS, was a 5.4 0-60 (0-60 are estimated, from the tree to a sensor down the track a ways). With 255 tires on the back, and a 6 speed in the Tranny. If your telling me the same T-56 Tranny, an extra 25 HP (35 if good SLP exhaust) and an extra 10 FT/LBS of torque made the WS6 move a 1/2 to 3/4 second faster then my Camaro, I would seriously be suprised and upset at the same time (Qtr mile: 13.8-13.9). It is not EASY to launch that car, Hair to much, wheel spin, Hair to low, staggared Launch. My ZO6 on the other hand performed well above that, 0-60 4.4 and Qtr 12.9, and that was at my hand, which is not all that skilled. Is either of my cars able to go a little faster then what I did, yes, but there is no Magazine that I will believe that a WS6 goes 60 in 4.7 unless they have slicks on. Even then I have a doubt because the standard Clutch Plate and Flywheel slip with that much grip and trying to launch aggressivly. Our M3 is very quick also, it definetly falls in the 4.7 category to 60. Qtr 13.6 to 13.7, unless I miss a shift. Are they close... yes, are they comparable in anything else, NO! I love all of my cars very much, my Camaro being my favorite, not because of any other reason other then she is my First true performer. But when its time to go on trips, in town, or to just cruise, my BMW is my choice. Camaros are a dime a dozen, WS6s are not as common (look at the annual sales numbers) but they are 3 times more common then an E46 M3. So... that is my very winded reply.

    Dan

    P.S. For anyone who is wondering, the SMG in the M3 actually slows the car down a little, yes it is faster then any person can shift, but the added weight of the mechanics slows the car down about .3 seconds to 60 and almost puts it into the 14s for 1/4
     
  14. HA! If your a blind american "muscle" lover than you would probably say that the Pontiac is a better choice, but ne one who knows what a great car the M3 is would not hesitate to say the BMW is much better then the Trans Am. The BMW has all aspects of a great car, 343 hp, great traction, 6 speed manual, beautiful exterior and connected interior, exhaust note that rumbles low and creates earthquake high. the list goes on, seeing one of these in person is simply shocking. The pictures dont express this cars full personality, which is an elite sports car that puts the driver in the best seat possible for 55 grand, except for maybe a vette zo6 or WRX m2. This is a good car, i very good car.
     
  15. bimmer hands down, not another jackass comparing crappy cars to a bimmer
     
  16. I've already named that car... the corvette. and no, not the base model, lets compare the comparably priced z06. Which one is faster? oh, right, NOT the m3. How am I embarassed anyways? I was defending a 30,000 muscle car against a 50,000 hybrid of perf./luxury... and doing a fair job I think. If you want a real comparision, try the z06, or perhaps the new e55amg - has about the same price difference between the firehawk and the M3, so it should be fair. the e55 does zero to sixty in 4.2 seconds, 1/4 mile in 12.39 (sep. 2003 m/t); or perhaps the audi rs6 - it does zero to sixty in 4.3 seconds, and the 1/4 in 12.63 (same mag.); or maybe the clk55amg, which does cost more than the e55, but still, it does zero to sixty in 4.7, 1/4 in 13.2; and as we know, the corvette z06 is capable of 3.9 to sixty with fairly comparable luxury, but 2 less seats. my point in this entire argument was to hopefully demonstrate that there are other cars out there besides bmw m series that have merit, including the firehawk, like it or not, it costs 20,000$ less than your precious m3, probably less now that it is only available used, for that extra 20,000$ one could easily add speed, luxury, or handling, or a bit of each. the z06 is comparably priced, pulls more on the skidpad (.99g vs .89g - car and driver), has more of a sporting heritage, and wins in straight line and track performance. Deal with it BMW M, the bmw m series is not the best. so... "Which American car has luxury, premium technology, top notch safety, astonishing braking, great performance, comfort, and superior handling?" the corvette z06 and, some would say, the new viper, and the cadillac cts-v.
     
  17. I guess that whole common thing depends on where you live man... i lived in DC for 4 months about a year ago and I swear EVERY OTHER CAR was a freaking e46 m3, no joke. I could not go 5 blocks without seeing one.
     
  18. where did you get your stats on the SMG slowing down the M3? I'm pretty sure R&T tested them to be equal.
     
  19. Re:

    I don't know where he got the stats, but I remember only hearing dislikes of the SMG, I think from car and driver. They said the shifts miss by about 500 a lot in downshifting.
    Oh and the 3.9 0-60 of the Z06 is powershifting so I wouldn't really consider that to be a legit source. The car is still damn fast, about 4.1, but the 3.9 was powershifted. If you aren't familiar with the term, just try flooring your car and when you shift to second, don't clutch, just slam it into second without letting the gas up at all. Its kind of fun, they let us do it to the neons at Skip Barber, allowing us to hit 60 in under a minute!
     
  20. First of all you are not "defending" the firehawk since an American Muscle fan came in the BMW forum to start this RIDICULOUS comparison. It is the BMW fans who are defending the M3 against the obsolete Firhawk. And you say that that the Viper and the Corvette are comfortable and luxurious???? Give me a F*ck'n break pal!!! The Corvette has cheap plastic interior on the inside and the Viper is known for it's discomfort. The Viper especially is known as a "NO FRILLS" car meant for performance only.

    The M3 on the other hand is meant for track racing and EVERYDAY USE as it has city mode and sport mode with 4 COMFORTABLE seats. I never said that the M3 is the greatest car, all I said was that it has everything you're looking for in a car.

    Another thing that YOU and many other American Muscle fans don't seem to understand is the concept of BRAND and PRESTIGE PRICING. The reason why the Firehawk and the Corvette are cheap is b/c they can't be priced to the level of a Ferrari's price as nobody in their right mind would pay the price tag with for Chevy or a Pontiac. That would be like Texas Instruments making a nice watch and pricing it as high as a Rolex. NOBODY in their right mind would pick the Texas Instruments watch over the Rolex simply b/c the Rolex is a prestige brand that focuses on making expense watches. Similar to the Firehawk, no idiot would pick it over the M3 as the Pontiac brand has been demeaned since it's also the brand that makes Sunfires!

    In conclusion these 2 cars are in different classes and should not be compared. kAnE being the incompetent fool that he is made an irrelevant comparison which has no merits to it. And it was the BMW fans that were on the defensive side not you with your defence of an obsolete car that will break down on you like ALL other Chevys!!!

     
  21. Don't assume that my not using an issue is a misunderstanding thereof. I fully understand "prestige pricing" and how it inflates BMW's pricing as well as deflates the Vette. Secondly, I did not mention the Viper once. Thirdly, sweeping generalizations such as "break down on you like ALL other chevys" get you nowhere and prove nothing but the fact that your argument lacks substance. Fourthly, I personally did not come into this forum to start a fight, I came into an existing thread to defend a car at least somewhat worthy of defending. As far as your luxury for performance and 4 comfortable seats, you couldn't say anything about the other cars I brought up that are, in my opinion, better than the aging M3. The 2004 model year will see another entry into the 'M3 beaters' category, the Cadillac CTS-V. Give me a break if you think that won't hang with your precious bimmer. You have fun with your BMW, and when it costs you 4 times the price to maintain it then it would that comparably priced Caddy, you have fun with that too.
     
  22. You know what, I'll have fun with my Bimmer and watch it retain it's value, while your Caddy depreciates like crazy with only the salvage value remaining on it. Typical American cars like Caddys have no value retention, with the exception of icons like the Corvette.
     
  23. GENTLEMEN I HAPPENED TO BE LOOKING FOR A FIREHAWK TO BUY WHEN I CAME ACROSS YOUR TESTOSTERONE CONVERSATION. I HAVE OWNED A PORSCHE TURBO, A VETTE THAT I STILL OWN, MG'S, A BUICK REGAL AND A 1995 PONTIAC FORMULA..........0-60 IN 3.7. BUSINESS ASSOCIATES OF MINE HAVE HAD B'MERS AND MERCEDES. THE PORCHE'S A.C. WILL NOT COOL THE CAR IN THE SUMMER. MY FORMULA COULD KICK MY PORCHES BUTT. MY REGAL GREATLY OUTRAN THE $125,000 MERCEDES MY ASSOCIATE OWNED.....WHAT AN OVERBLOWN PIECE OF GARBAGE. HE......MY ASSOCIATE IMMEDIATELY TOOK IT TO TRADE IT IN AND THE SAME MERCEDES DEALER OFFERED HIM 20K FOR A 2 YR OLD SHOW CAR (THAT WAS HIS BUSINESS). MY FORMULA HAS 64,000 HARD MILES ON IT AND I'VE HAD TO PUT FRONT PADS ON THE BRAKES.....PERIOD. HOW MUCH HAVE YOUR "MANHOOD" CARS COST YOU GERMAN CAR BOASTERS? I'M 60+ YRS OLD AND HAVE GONE THRU 3 PRO DRIVING SCHOOLS. I SUGGEST YOU "REALLY" LEARN HOW TO DRIVE BEFORE YOU THINK YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO JUDGE A CAR'S ABILITIES. BY THE WAY, I DON'T SEE MERCEDES OR B'MERS AT THE DRAGS.......OR THE CIRCUIT RACE TRACKS. THE Z-WHATEVER BMW IS ONLY SELLING HERE BECAUSE MG WON'T BRING IT'S 8 CYLINDER MG TO THE US. THE GERMAN "Z" PEOPLE TRIED TO COPY IT. YOU SHOULD ALSO KNOW THAT THE CAR YOU AND THE BANK OWN, DOESN'T DEFINE "WHAT" YOU ARE.........
     
  24. Investigation of BMW


    Girard Gibbs LLP is investigating BMW due to consumer complaints regarding differential mount failures in the subframe of certain BMW Z3's, Coupes, Roadsters, 3-series, and M-class vehicles.
    Consumers complain that cracking occurs in the trunk, floor, or spot welds on the chassis of their vehicles, necessitating costly repairs.


     

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