Re: American Cars can't Handle!

Discussion in '2000 Honda S2000' started by LanciaDeltaIntegraleS4, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. You're quite a character, guibo. Of the people I have seen on these forums, you are the only person other than myself who can say so little with so many words.

    A little more trivia, perhaps.

    (Just so you understand what I'm doing, I'm sizing you up. You've beaten the crap out of me, much to my chagrin and dismay, so I want to know just where I stand in the grand, automotive scheme of things. Being beaten by someone you don't respect sucks, so I'm hoping I can gain a little of that for you, from you, and for me. I expect you won't want to play, but I'll give it a shot.)

    I am curious what you, as the dominant member of this thread, think about some things. How would you order these aspects of a car with respect to their importance to you as an evaluator, not as a buyer: price, power, handling, looks, the image associated with it, engineering, build quality, and brand. What are some of the cars that have these qualities in the right amounts (i.e., what are some of your all-time favorites?) Finally, what do you have to say about the 1993 Honda Accord LX 5-speed?<!-- Signature -->
     
  2. "How would you order these aspects of a car with respect to their importance to you as an evaluator, not as a buyer: price, power, handling, looks, the image associated with it, engineering, build quality, and brand."

    This is a tough one. I've never really tested a car strictly as an evaluator and not as a buyer. Even when I drive other people's cars, I'm conscious of how much they cost. With that in mind, I'll answer like this:
    Looks (1st impressions)
    Price (puts into perspective all other qualities of the car regardless of whether I'm buying or not)
    Power/handling/brakes (3-way tie; not outright power, but a decent power to weight ratio; throttle response and delivery of power probably figure in there somewhere)
    Build quality
    Engineering

    Brand
    Image

    "What are some of the cars that have these qualities in the right amounts (i.e., what are some of your all-time favorites?)"

    Truthfully, I prefer older cars. Particularly when it comes to more mundane modes of transport. There are only a few modern cars that I really care for. So with that in mind, here's my short list:
    Alfa Romeo GTV
    Datsun 240Z & 510
    BMW 3.0CS, 1600/2002/2002 Turbo
    Chevrolet Corvette Sting Ray (Split-Window or not), Corvair
    Ferrari 246 GT, 250 GT SWB w/body by Bertone, 365 GTB/4 Daytona
    Mini Cooper
    E-Type
    911

    For the more modern cars, I would say:
    MINI
    NSX, Prelude SH
    Skyline GTR, 300ZX TT
    E30 M3, M Coupe, E46 M3 (not so much for looks but for its utility and performance for the dollar), M5, maybe even the Z8
    Mustang Cobra
    Z06
    Viper GTS
    Tuscan

    Of those, I'd say the M Coupe heads my personal list.

    "Finally, what do you have to say about the 1993 Honda Accord LX 5-speed?"
    Sorry, don't know enough about that one.



     
  3. That's one beautiful, well-balanced list. There was a time when I had the opportunity to buy a 2002 Turbo, but my parents saw it as unsafe. Same with a '65 Cooper S. It took a long time to find them and to find the cash. Sigh...the ones that got away.<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. This is how i think it goes:

    Italian Cars #1
    Japanese Cars #2
    American Cars #3
    German Cars #4
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  5. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from LamboOwner</i>
    <b>This is how i think it goes:

    Italian Cars #1
    Japanese Cars #2
    American Cars #3
    German Cars #4
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Um, Germans are the best in the world when it comes to mechanics. Why do you think they always do great in the Olympics? Why MB and BMW are the most reliable and best riding/handling "common" cars? Engineering, my friend. It's simply slightly superior to that of the rest of the world's. I'm for American all the way, but we've gotta face facts, people. Oh... it's an opinion. Well then ok, my bad. Just thought I'd give my opinion, too. <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"><!-- Signature -->
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from NYCStangGT</i>
    <b>Dude, that's a REALLY obnoxious signature, full of complete bullshit.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Heh, thanks. I knew it would get some rednecks angry.<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SeansVette</i>
    <b>How many times have I read this in Honda forums?

    CAR AND DRIVER, MARCH 2002
    Rating the 3 Hottest Hatches

    Honda Civic Si
    VW Golf GTI
    Ford SVT Focus

    Page 46
    FIRST PLACE
    Ford SVT Focus

    "But at $19,265 well optioned, the SVT Focus with all the go-faster parts is cheaper than the GTI and on par with the Si.
    Even if you exclude price from consideration, the Focus a winner. After trundling around in the Civic and herding the GTI through the streets of Willow, we found the Focus to be a revelation. It is simply in a handling class all by itself."

    Damn! Honda got beat by Ford at their own game. Oh but wait, I thought Ford was incapable of making cars that can handle like those crafty Japanese cars. Maybe, just maybe that stereotype you've been reading in the forums and sucking on like a huge COCKtail turned about to be BS.

    Here's another line I love from the review.
    "Suspension tuning is a black art, and SVT Engineering is staffed with wizards."
    Isn't SVT the same team that designs the Mustang Cobra? Weren't some Honda junkies saying the Mustang Cobra is only fast in a straight line?

    Wow! Read reviews in the supercars.net Honda forums and Ford engineers are stupid dinosaurs who can't make a car handle if their life depended on it.
    But read Car and Driver and they're wizards in the black art of suspension tuning.

    Don't worry. I know Ford is stepping on Honda's toes by building a better compact fastback. I'm sure someday Honda will come up with a pony car that will beat the... oh wait... nevermind.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    U shoudl know that the focus is made in Europe. And it's great cars. I thought some people said four bangers suck and FWDs suck....hmmm, interesting........The vette is pretty good for its price, i like it over the viper. I don't like a sports car that uses a truck's engine. That's cheap to me.<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. The Honda S2000 is a great car...but not better than my 1996 318ti wth mods out the ass, downingatlanta supercharger with a 100 shot of NOS!
     
  9. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from westcoasthonda</i>
    <b>SeansVette. You should just ignore people like that when they make stupid comments like that. I'm an Import fan but even I know that the cars like the Vette or Viper CAN HANDLE. These cars (as much as I hate to admit it) outhandled the NSX, one of the best handling cars in the world. So just think of people who make comments like that as a joke and don't take them too personal.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    the viper can't outhandle the NSX..

    the NSX was like .8 of a second behind the z06 around Laguna Seca.. in the R&T comparison between the 911 NA , Vette and the NSX..

    and the vette beats the viper
     
  10. Good point Ferrari, but regarless Honda can't keep up with either of them. <!-- Signature -->
     
  11. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SeansVette</i>
    <b>How many times have I read this in Honda forums?

    CAR AND DRIVER, MARCH 2002
    Rating the 3 Hottest Hatches

    Honda Civic Si
    VW Golf GTI
    Ford SVT Focus

    Page 46
    FIRST PLACE
    Ford SVT Focus

    "But at $19,265 well optioned, the SVT Focus with all the go-faster parts is cheaper than the GTI and on par with the Si.
    Even if you exclude price from consideration, the Focus a winner. After trundling around in the Civic and herding the GTI through the streets of Willow, we found the Focus to be a revelation. It is simply in a handling class all by itself."

    Damn! Honda got beat by Ford at their own game. Oh but wait, I thought Ford was incapable of making cars that can handle like those crafty Japanese cars. Maybe, just maybe that stereotype you've been reading in the forums and sucking on like a huge COCKtail turned about to be BS.

    Here's another line I love from the review.
    "Suspension tuning is a black art, and SVT Engineering is staffed with wizards."
    Isn't SVT the same team that designs the Mustang Cobra? Weren't some Honda junkies saying the Mustang Cobra is only fast in a straight line?

    Wow! Read reviews in the supercars.net Honda forums and Ford engineers are stupid dinosaurs who can't make a car handle if their life depended on it.
    But read Car and Driver and they're wizards in the black art of suspension tuning.

    Don't worry. I know Ford is stepping on Honda's toes by building a better compact fastback. I'm sure someday Honda will come up with a pony car that will beat the... oh wait... nevermind.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You shouldn't get too angry at the import fans. Just look around and you'll see that 90% of American Muscle fans are stupid stereotypical morons with no factual evidence to back up their bogus claims. In this forum for example, you have idiots like ilovechevys saying that the S2000's 0-60 time of 5.2 seconds is "slow" and you have rejects like hensymms saying that the S200 is aweful without any factual evidence. So before you condemn the minority of ignorant import fans why don't you look at the majority of stupid American Muscle fans that cause people to develop a great hatred for American Cars.<!-- Signature -->
     
  12. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SeansVette</i>
    <b>How many times have I read this in Honda forums?

    CAR AND DRIVER, MARCH 2002
    Rating the 3 Hottest Hatches

    Honda Civic Si
    VW Golf GTI
    Ford SVT Focus

    Page 46
    FIRST PLACE
    Ford SVT Focus

    "But at $19,265 well optioned, the SVT Focus with all the go-faster parts is cheaper than the GTI and on par with the Si.
    Even if you exclude price from consideration, the Focus a winner. After trundling around in the Civic and herding the GTI through the streets of Willow, we found the Focus to be a revelation. It is simply in a handling class all by itself."

    Damn! Honda got beat by Ford at their own game. Oh but wait, I thought Ford was incapable of making cars that can handle like those crafty Japanese cars. Maybe, just maybe that stereotype you've been reading in the forums and sucking on like a huge COCKtail turned about to be BS.

    Here's another line I love from the review.
    "Suspension tuning is a black art, and SVT Engineering is staffed with wizards."
    Isn't SVT the same team that designs the Mustang Cobra? Weren't some Honda junkies saying the Mustang Cobra is only fast in a straight line?

    Wow! Read reviews in the supercars.net Honda forums and Ford engineers are stupid dinosaurs who can't make a car handle if their life depended on it.
    But read Car and Driver and they're wizards in the black art of suspension tuning.

    Don't worry. I know Ford is stepping on Honda's toes by building a better compact fastback. I'm sure someday Honda will come up with a pony car that will beat the... oh wait... nevermind.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You shouldn't get too angry at the import fans. Just look around and you'll see that 90% of American Muscle fans are stupid stereotypical morons with no factual evidence to back up their bogus claims. In this forum for example, you have idiots like ilovechevys saying that the S2000's 0-60 time of 5.2 seconds is "slow" and you have rejects like hensymms saying that the S200 is aweful without any factual evidence. So before you condemn the minority of ignorant import fans why don't you look at the majority of stupid American Muscle fans that cause people to develop a great hatred for American Cars.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> Or in this forum you have idiots like BMWM not reading properly who said this zero to sixty was slow for a 'sports car.' damn, you'd think if you drive a bmw you could read, but i guess not.
     
  13. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from ilovechevysandvws</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SeansVette</i>
    <b>How many times have I read this in Honda forums?

    CAR AND DRIVER, MARCH 2002
    Rating the 3 Hottest Hatches

    Honda Civic Si
    VW Golf GTI
    Ford SVT Focus

    Page 46
    FIRST PLACE
    Ford SVT Focus

    "But at $19,265 well optioned, the SVT Focus with all the go-faster parts is cheaper than the GTI and on par with the Si.
    Even if you exclude price from consideration, the Focus a winner. After trundling around in the Civic and herding the GTI through the streets of Willow, we found the Focus to be a revelation. It is simply in a handling class all by itself."

    Damn! Honda got beat by Ford at their own game. Oh but wait, I thought Ford was incapable of making cars that can handle like those crafty Japanese cars. Maybe, just maybe that stereotype you've been reading in the forums and sucking on like a huge COCKtail turned about to be BS.

    Here's another line I love from the review.
    "Suspension tuning is a black art, and SVT Engineering is staffed with wizards."
    Isn't SVT the same team that designs the Mustang Cobra? Weren't some Honda junkies saying the Mustang Cobra is only fast in a straight line?

    Wow! Read reviews in the supercars.net Honda forums and Ford engineers are stupid dinosaurs who can't make a car handle if their life depended on it.
    But read Car and Driver and they're wizards in the black art of suspension tuning.

    Don't worry. I know Ford is stepping on Honda's toes by building a better compact fastback. I'm sure someday Honda will come up with a pony car that will beat the... oh wait... nevermind.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You shouldn't get too angry at the import fans. Just look around and you'll see that 90% of American Muscle fans are stupid stereotypical morons with no factual evidence to back up their bogus claims. In this forum for example, you have idiots like ilovechevys saying that the S2000's 0-60 time of 5.2 seconds is "slow" and you have rejects like hensymms saying that the S200 is aweful without any factual evidence. So before you condemn the minority of ignorant import fans why don't you look at the majority of stupid American Muscle fans that cause people to develop a great hatred for American Cars.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE --> Or in this forum you have idiots like BMWM not reading properly who said this zero to sixty was slow for a 'sports car.' damn, you'd think if you drive a bmw you could read, but i guess not. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You're calling me an idiot? Wasn't it you the idiot who claimed that "by today's standards a 1/4 mile time of 14 seconds and a 0-60 time of 5.2 seconds is slow"? By today's standards a car priced at $32,000 that puts up those performance numbers and a slalom time of 66 mph (R&T), has build quality and longevity of the highest kind (JD power, Consumer's Report Auto magazine), and the highest bhp/liter of any PRODUCTION car is quite an amazing accomplishment for the S2000.

    Just because you're a stereotypical moron who doesn't like imports, it doesn't give you the right to flame a car. I think the Z06 is an awesome car disregarding the fact that I dislike American cars, but do you see me making trouble in the Corvette forum? Just look at how you titled your thread and then come and tell me that you would feel happy if people made a thread in the Corvette forum calling the vette SLOW, UGLY, and Overpriced. The Vette is quite fast for its price range like I said above, and "ugly" is your opinion as most people I have encountered LOVE the looks of the S2000, and overpriced is hardly the word to describe a bargain for the reasons I stated above.<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. unless ure talkin bout the 1970's american cars then yeh they have no handling power cuz theyre too busy burnin the #$%# outta the back tires...... this seems to be doin the same just without the power<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. Vipers do have good handling. They have pretty impressive slalom times.
     
  16. Which car uses a truck's engine? A vette shares a similar block with the trucks. The LS1/LS6 block is an aluminum version of the vortec series of chevy truck engines. The ram Srt-10 uses a viper engine (is that cheap?) and will dust many 'sports' cars out there.
     
  17. I was talking about the viper, not vette.
     
  18. No, you have it backwards; the truck uses the viper's engine.
     
  19. Ya even if american cars cant handle it's pritty sad that it would still kill any japenese car on a race track!!... im not gonna arguee that american cars handle better then japenese cars cuz i know thats not right but what would u rather have... a fast car that cant handle that great(american) or a piece of sh*t that can handle good but has no top speed (japenese)!!!... if u ask me i'd chose the american car and all you people that wouldnt ur STUPID!!! NO japenese car can even compare to an american car. And like i said before its sad that a car without great handling can still beat n e japenese car!!!...I've seen homeless people with more hope then this piece of sh*t
     
  20. Actually HP and gearing are important factors in determining top end. A lot of Japanese cars have a great top end. Where they lack is in bottom end torque, which is not good for acceleration.
     
  21. Err, no, the NSX-R beat the Viper and Vette in nurburgring.
     
  22. Nah, this only applies to most Hondas. The Skyline, 350z, silvia, supra are all torquey.
     
  23. Its all relative; how many come stock with 400 lbft and a flat torque curve? Of course I also said most cars, there are always a few exceptions.
     
  24. how many american cars come stock with 400lbft?...i count 2, Z06 (only just) and SRT-10, 1 of which is owned by Mercedes

    speaking of Mercedes, how many american cars come stock with 590lbft?

    loads of japanese cars have respectable torque...
    Toyota Century - 354lbft
    Nismo 400R - 347lbft
    Toyota Supra - 333lbft
    Infiniti M45 - 333lbft
    Lexus SC430 - 325lbft
    Mitsubishi GTO - 315lbft
    Mitsubishi Proudia - 304lbft
    Mazda Cosmo - 297lbft
    Mitsubishi Lancer E8 - 289lbft
    Nissan Skyline GTR - 289lbft
    Nissan 300ZX - 286lbft
    Subaru Impreza S202 - 284lbft
     
  25. Ill say it again, slalom speeds do not represent a real track, no track in the world consists of tiny little turns like that. Just because a car holds well in the slalom does not mean it will when you lose traction putting your ass end out on a hairpin turn.
     

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