Re: Americans are sometimes...(Part II)

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by MAB062183, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>OK, for a little background, here goes.

    The first car that really got me interested in cars at all was the Porsche 928. I know, I know. Some may think it kind of odd, but the fact is, for a little kid like me to see this car when it first came out in the '80s(*), it was quite mesmerizing. Not a lot of people missed it with the passing of the final GTS version, but I was bummed to see that line of cars go.
    At around this time, I started really reading about cars in R&T. Nice pics, good writeups, and a very decent Technical Q&A section. I think my oldest issue might even date back to 1983. C&D and MT would follow later, with better coverage of tuned cars and better head-to-head comparos.
    In the early '90s(*), I picked up my first car, a Datsun 240Z. Great car, and good to tinker with. A simple car to learn the basics of car maintenance: tuneups, oil changes, messing with various points/distributor setings, practicing valve adjustments, tuning and synchronizing dual SU-type Hitachi carbs, etc. I even swapped out the blown stock shocks for some nearly teeth-rattling KYB's. (That was a PITA, I wouldn't do that again today.) Such a good car, I bought another one, which I still have to this day.
    Then, I picked up a BMW 2002 to drive, and later on, yet another one to drive and tinker with.
    Nowadays, I stay current with most of the major US car mags, plus a sprinkling of evo, CAR, Autocar, Bimmer, BMWcar, European Car, Excellence, etc., when there are articles of interest. I also occasionally pick up the great UK classic car mags like Thoroughbred & Classic Cars and Classic & Sports Car. And of course, the Internet is a valuable resource for technical automotive knowledge. I sometimes just read various Porsche, Viper, Ferrari, TVR, and BMW owners' boards just for the hell of it.

    If this background sounds ripe for creating a hp/l junkie, you're right. My favorite cars for much of the '90s was the NSX, 993 Turbo, and M3. But perusing this forum back in early '01 (and I mean, actually *reading* it, understanding it, and not posting prejudicial BS), I found that there's so much more to good engineering than mere hp/l figures.

    *gsolinas, kinda blows your theory about me being 10 years old out of the water, doesn't it?
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Good stuff, man. Your story is told with the same thoroughness as your posts. <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"> Anyways, I have read the whole string of "Americans are sometimes..." posts (both threads), and I really don't see how someone could refuse to believe you with so much proof thrown in his/her face. In fact, I would say that there is no point in trying to convince someone so hard-headed, except for the fact that it is fun to shoot false logic down. Besides, the more of your posts I read (w/emphasis on scanned statistics), the more I learn about the Viper (not to mention a few other cars and a few SC.net members). Thanks, man. <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">

    -Michael
     
  2. gsolinas, what do you mean the viper would slam into a wall after beatin the ferrari? i have a 2002 viper rt10 and it was built to get to high speeds and back down quick.
     
  3. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>A) The malfunction in the Viper was on the road/track, the Ferrari was in testing. If you can’t see a difference leave, you don’t belong here.

    B) Leave that other forum where it is but for the sake of responding, someone else brought up the Veyron, and I responded.

    C) The Viper isn’t faster. Do you need to re-read all this shit or something?

    D) Like in the other posts, you bring up the Exotic vs. Sports car bullshit. Listen carefully kid, exotic status is given based on the way it is produced, not on how it performs. That is a terrible argument.

    By the way, if I were to black out all the info that is my own I would only be accused of scanning some bullshit sheet of paper. So what is the point? Besides how I earn a living has nothing to do with this argument. I responded to the claims that Vipers top Ferraris with proof and showed that in many ways even Ferrari’s lesser performers win. Now that the momentum has shifted in my favour the personal game is starting. This argument was over pages ago. And don’t talk patriotism because that is all that is keeping you guys on this forum, it sure isn’t facts.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    A) That 800TT WAS being tested. The article states that Hennessy hadn't worked out all the bugs by the time that article was written. That is why MotorTrend re-Tested the final example in a later issue(When it squeezed out that 2.7 second 0-60 in the rain!!). It seems you can't see the similarity...

    B) No comment.

    C) The Viper IS faster. Do you need to re-read all this shit or something?!

    D) Your definition of an Exotic is vague. So the Lotus Elise 119, Superformance Cobra and a Bentley Arnage are Exotics too?

    Shouldn't those Importation Forms have info on them other than yours that would show it a real form? I mean, you can't just go to the office supply store and pick them up can you?

    And about that proof that you posted... I only see one scan of an article, some cross referencing from 2 different mags with faster times for a 360 from one, and slow times for a Viper from the other( If you look what each mag has for both cars the Viper wins in both mags) and a bunch of derrogatory statments about the Viper and forum users. I have posted numbers proving the Fastest '01 Ferarri is the not-top-of-the-line 360. Your right, this arguement was over a long time ago. You love bringing up Patriotism, because you are the most Patriotic of them all. YOU are defending the car you love, and tragically try to down the Viper with snoot comments like, "Viper is poor build quality" or "They need to put a huge crappy truck engine in it so it can compete, if it can!" No one in here has dissed a Ferarri in here with the exception of Bigblock(who isn't even American, he's French!!). No one pays him too much attention anyways... I love Ferarri's, as I have said before, but they will lose to somebody, sometimes. I would also prefer a WRX as my 2nd choice for a new car. Seems I'm not as patriotic as you think...

    Oh yeah, still waiting on the explanation to why people should believe everything we post is false, and everything you post is true...
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  5. "L'Auto-Journal" has pushed the 360 Modena at 295kmh at Monthlery , a French track , the one on which the video of the 170hp Elise vs 560hp F40 was done.

    I don't know for higher speeds.

    I'll may seem to flam MT once more , But I got a video of a 1/4 mile duel between a 360 Modena and a 911 type 966 turbo.

    The turbo won with a time of 12.247s
    The 360 Modena did 12.392s
     
  6. Well he certainly stuck it to me. LOL. Give up, you posted a weak performance that still outdid the ACR in more ways than one (ie. 0-60, slalom, braking, etc.). Not to mention we’ve all seen the Modena hit better numbers. This months R&T shows a Modena pulling off a 69.7 slalom. Anyway, I really don’t care. The Viper should top the Modena (and some of you act like it does) but the fact is it leaves much to be desired. And I’ll again remind everyone of the big difference in engine size. And don’t act like it doesn’t matter because if it didn’t they (Dodge) wouldn’t be increasing the size on the 2003 Viper engines.

    Importing forms? Get real, I already said I was posting nothing relating to personal identification. The next time I import, (later this summer) I’ll post the pictures. Be patient or mind your business because you believing me means close to nothing to me. It’s just a matter of making you look stupid…again.

    And I read the article. A test car burned up during a test and a new one has not had that problem, they are working out the kinks like any other car company. It wouldn’t be the first car Ferrari or otherwise to do so. If GM did that maybe there wouldn’t be so many recalls.

    But I totally agree with JTBNZ, this is bullshit. I’m arguing with losers that will never admit the truth. **** it, like whatever you want, support whoever you want, and believe whatever you want. It means a little less to me everyday. Bottom line, the 360 is not the top of the line Ferrari and still outdoes the top of the line Dodge in many ways. I’ve posted the proof. There isn’t a post in the world that would disprove that statement. Even though I’m sure dweebo will try because he’s got nothing better to do. Good luck, but I’ve wasted enough time with you and your boyfriends. Those who refuse to respect excellence in cars aren’t true car fans. I’d take quality over patriotism if I were you. But I’m not thank God so do what you want.


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  7. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Well he certainly stuck it to me. LOL. Give up, you posted a weak performance that still outdid the ACR in more ways than one (ie. 0-60, slalom, braking, etc.). Not to mention we’ve all seen the Modena hit better numbers. This months R&T shows a Modena pulling off a 69.7 slalom. Anyway, I really don’t care. The Viper should top the Modena (and some of you act like it does) but the fact is it leaves much to be desired. And I’ll again remind everyone of the big difference in engine size. And don’t act like it doesn’t matter because if it didn’t they (Dodge) wouldn’t be increasing the size on the 2003 Viper engines.

    Importing forms? Get real, I already said I was posting nothing relating to personal identification. The next time I import, (later this summer) I’ll post the pictures. Be patient or mind your business because you believing me means close to nothing to me. It’s just a matter of making you look stupid…again.

    And I read the article. A test car burned up during a test and a new one has not had that problem, they are working out the kinks like any other car company. It wouldn’t be the first car Ferrari or otherwise to do so. If GM did that maybe there wouldn’t be so many recalls.

    But I totally agree with JTBNZ, this is bullshit. I’m arguing with losers that will never admit the truth. **** it, like whatever you want, support whoever you want, and believe whatever you want. It means a little less to me everyday. Bottom line, the 360 is not the top of the line Ferrari and still outdoes the top of the line Dodge in many ways. I’ve posted the proof. There isn’t a post in the world that would disprove that statement. Even though I’m sure dweebo will try because he’s got nothing better to do. Good luck, but I’ve wasted enough time with you and your boyfriends. Those who refuse to respect excellence in cars aren’t true car fans. I’d take quality over patriotism if I were you. But I’m not thank God so do what you want.


    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The Viper should be faster than the Ferrari? It's a sports car and the Ferrari is an Exotic. Whether it should be or not, it is and you have seen that proof. We've also seen the Viper hit better numbers. Remember, in the Sledgehammer forum, we were talking about the 800TT and you brought up the oil leak during testing. When you found out about that oil leak you tried to make it seem as big as possible. You used that to state that "American cars are unreliable", but when a Ferrari malfunctions (blows up) you say it's a minor problem and that it happens to all test vehicles. Wow, who's the patriot now? Also, in the Sledgehammer forum you compared a Buggati to the Sledgehammer. The Sledgehammer has a 850hp V8, the Buggati a 1001hp W16. The Sledgehammer was still faster. I didn't see you crying about size difference there. Obviously us Americans have the technology to build a small engine that can go fast but that costs money and what Dodge is trying to do is make an affordable sports car that can compete with the big boys. As you can see, they have done just that. But since the Viper is faster than the Ferrari now you're complaining that the Vipers engine is bigger! Boohoo. You did the same when the comparisons between the coproduced Sledgehammer, Ferrari's and Lamborghini's were made. I don't understand why you think that you are winning this debate between Guibo and yourself. The Viper is faster yet you think that you are still socking it to us? You laugh yet you lose. If you don't care then why are you here arguing with us?

    If you think that this is my dad then I would be afraid to see what you and your family look like.
     
  8. #9 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from deuginthesky</i>
    <b>"L'Auto-Journal" has pushed the 360 Modena at 295kmh at Monthlery.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Right. But 295 kmh is still slower than the Viper’s best of 311 kmh, done in ’98. (And that Viper hit 60 in 4.1 sec, so gearing was not an issue.) That 360 Modena is still slower than the slowest Vipers in the other MT comparos, which did 302 kmh in ’97 and 301 kmh in ’99.
    What was the 0-100 time of that 360 Modena?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from deuginthesky</i>
    <b>I'll may seem to flam MT once more , But I got a video of a 1/4 mile duel between a 360 Modena and a 911 type 966 turbo.

    The turbo won with a time of 12.247s
    The 360 Modena did 12.392s</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    That’s funny. Because not only is Motor Trend’s Turbo faster (at 11.92 seconds), but so was its 360 Modena, which did it in 12.25. So much for the utter BS about Motor Trend being biased. And so much for the BS that non-US spec Euro cars are quicker than their American-converted counterparts. What exactly is your point, deug? How is this a flaming of MT? It is vindication that they their tests are no more biased than any other magazine. Their 996 TT is quicker than the 360 Modena, just as in your video. And both of their cars were quicker overall.
    Was there a US-spec Viper in that comparo, deug? I thought we were talking about Vipers vs. Ferraris here, not Porsches vs. Ferraris.
    And 12.392 is still slower than 12.25 which is still slower than 12.2 (which is the norm for Vipers), and still slower than the Viper’s best of 11.97.
    http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/auto2/MCSDVIP.html

    Hey, look at that. The Viper’s best 0-60 of 3.89 is still quicker than the 360 Modena’s best of 3.92.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Well he certainly stuck it to me. LOL. Give up, you posted a weak performance that still outdid the ACR in more ways than one (ie. 0-60, slalom, braking, etc.). </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    LOL, “etc.”. Why don’t you look at the statistics for when BOTH cars were tested by the SAME driver on the SAME day? In that test, the 360 Modena only beat the Viper in 0-60, and braking. And the braking results are kinda irrelevant by today’s standards since the Viper has ABS.
    The Viper beat the 360 Modena in 0-100, quarter mile, quarter mile trap speed, standing mile, standing mile trap speed, lateral acceleration AND slalom. Not even the “big Ferrari”, the 550 Maranello could match the Viper when tested on the same day.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Not to mention we’ve all seen the Modena hit better numbers. This months R&T shows a Modena pulling off a 69.7 slalom. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    This month’s R&T also shows a Modena being beaten by a less-than-$30K econobox, the Mazda wagon. LOL! BFD.
    Was the Viper tested there as well? Hmmm?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b> Bottom line, the 360 is not the top of the line Ferrari and still outdoes the top of the line Dodge in many ways.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    “Many ways”. LOL, it also loses in many ways. And the more top of the line 550 Maranello can do barely better (if at all) and costs even more.
     
  9. Ok I’m fed up with all the accusations and demands with regards to proving how I make a living. It is insignificant to this conversation but for the sake of satisfying the needs of some kids I’ll try to explain exactly how this works.

    The fact that I’m asked to post importation forms already is a good indication that those asking are clueless to Canadian laws. That isn’t an insult, I don’t expect Americans to understand Canadian laws since I don’t know everything there is to know about American importing (yes there are differences). But I’m going to attempt to bring everyone interested up to speed without implicating myself. Those interested in comparing cars should disregard the following since it will mainly revolve around import policies in Canada.

    There is an importer, lets call him Frank. He is a private exotic car importer, not an exotic car dealer. There is a big difference, a dealer can only sell cars he is certified to sell. Whereas a private importer can import everything from Ferrari, to Lotus, Lamborghini, to Porsche based on requests. A dealer also has overhead, employees, and inventory. The privatized dealer has far less headaches and can pocket more based on the fact that his name goes nowhere. Now I will describe where a loop hole in Canadian Customs has helped pay a lot of bills for “Frank”. In a customs document I will post later it clearly states how no used car can be imported unless it meets a variety of exceptions. One being the fact that it was a gift. People can legally inherit or be given a car regardless of where it comes from as long as it is coming from a friendly nation and the vehicle has or will undergo a compliance conversion to make it pass Canadian emission standards. All that is needed is a declaration from both buyer and seller that no financial transaction has taken place. The locator and eventual importer of the vehicle does not sign anything since everything he does is on behalf of the buyer. He is in a sense the “middle man” who just knows the system. The financial transactions go through him but customs, the ministry of transportation, and Revenue Canada (our IRS) see nothing since all transactions go through an account in Europe. After the vehicle has been cleared, the seller receives his full pay. Another exception is that the car be 15 years old or more. That makes it a vintage car in Canada. The US is 25 years. But that is pretty straight forward.

    During delivery the sender must fill out paper work. Upon arrival the car goes through customs and the receiver also fills out paperwork. The receiver must fill out a n RIV (Registration of an Imported Vehicle). They are numbered government documents that cannot be prepared or obtained in advance. The agent keeps a copy, the owner keeps a copy, and the eventual insurance agent also fills out a copy, the importer keeps nothing since his name went nowhere and his task is now long completed. Another document is the certification of compliance which can be sent by the manufacturer in the event that it was initially intended for North American sale (dealerships use this method). Or it can be filled out by a mechanic prior to delivery, or Customs will hold a car for a certain period of days while mechanics perform what is needed at the garage of there choice (usually Canadian tire). If after the period of time expires the car is destroyed under legal supervision. Again the insurance agent, customs agent, and owner get those documents. Not Frank. There is another document to be filled out upon arrival, the Vehicle Import Form is a very basic form filled out and signed that eventually goes to the Ministry of Transportation (or DMV in the States) to properly licence the car in North America. Once a car has been cleared in Canada it is usually good to go in the States as well barring a few exceptions.

    The money is simple. An order is placed and after location a contract by the seller and locator is signed using Franks lawyers and a 10% deposit is placed in Franks temporary holding account (the contract states that upon arrival the rest of the money will be transferred over. Upon arrival the rest of the money is placed in the account electronically and then Franks lawyer has it sent to the seller. What is left over belongs to Frank. So if Mr. X pays $200,000 for a car that Mr. Y was selling for $130,000, Frank has a $70,000 pay day having to pay only his lawyer. The seller got what he wanted, the buyer got a car in two weeks for less than the dealership would have charged and made him wait for a year…so everyone is happy. After all transactions are cleared the lawyer documents are destroyed since they don’t matter anymore. Is it legal? It is disputable. Cars are being imported under false pretences but they do pass all emission and safety regulations and are later licensed properly. And those pretences are legitimate loop holes. Who’s to say they aren’t gifts? And in the case that the car is 15 years or older there is really nothing to worry about at all. Where it gets hazy is in the tax situation. Since Franks name goes nowhere (the lawyer signs the contracts not Frank), and the only account involved in the transactions is out of federal jurisdiction taxes need not be paid. In other words, if “Frank wished to post his income tax statement to prove some punks wrong it wouldn’t even show that that is what he does. It is not really his job. He has an actual job and does this on his own time because he loves the cars and gets to drive them around occasionally (he also sometimes makes much more than when he works). But those 3, 4, maybe 5 cars a year allow him all the little extras. You aren’t the only one in a Beamer Guibo.

    Enough said.


    Finally I’m convinced you are blind. The post Guibo showed had the Modena doing a better 0-60 than the Viper. Did it not?

    And this months Road & Track shows the Modena winning the entire competition. So again, re-read. Last time I checked 268.8 points was better than 242.6.

    You post a test, I post a test. You say the Viper is better because of this test and that test, I say the Modena is better because of this test and that test. Where does it end. These cars are close in performance (which to me is an underachievement from the Viper) but you can find results indicating that both can outdo each other on a given day. Big deal. It’s about preference. You have yours and I have mine. But even with all your posts Guibo, I have still seen the Modena outperform the Viper on more occasions than otherwise.

    BTW, a Ferrari enthusiast will be the first to tell you that the Ferraris are not straight line dragsters so the fact that their quarter mile times are sometimes more than the Viper’s again is not much of an achievement. If you read the article in full on the Modena in June 2002 you will see that the Modena rarely wins a single category but its overall performance is what gives it such good segmented times over and over again. It’s wrong to pick apart a car’s performance, look at the whole thing.
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  11. Those are from a Customs document just to show where the restrictions and loopholes are.
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  12. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>What The #$%# already! How many posts do you have to see where the Ferraris do outperform Vipers to finally admit it. Do you actually read the tests. There have been plenty of opportunities for you guys to see where the Ferrari outdoes the Viper in performance. Your refusal to admit this is starting to get old.

    And engine size is my only argument? Keep crying about price hypocrite. Fact is I posted some tests on both cars that did prove what I was saying.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    What The #$%# already! How many posts do you have to see where the Vipers do outperform Ferarris to finally admit it? Do you actually read the tests? There have been plenty of opportunities for you to see where the Viper outdoes the Ferarri in performance. Your refusal to admit this is starting to get old. ;)

    Actually, the fact is that you posted tests of the two cars performing on different days, at different altitudes, different temperatures, etc. that proved what you are saying. Hell, I could find a test of a 360 or 550 up in Denver, Colorado( alt. of 1 mile) versus a test of a Mustang GT done at sea level that shows the Mustang the winner. Guibo has posted tests of the cars being tested on the same day declaring the Viper the winner. It's WAY more valid than your biased post.

    BTW, you still haven't answered my question, Why should every person that views this page believe your posts and not ours?<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. #14 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Well, well, well. The RealDeal steps up to the plate for his very first post. And lo and behold, it's in the 800TT forum. Pretty curious.

    Caterham R500 and Cerbera 4.5 are faster? Duhhhr...no they're not. The top speed of the Caterham is only in the 140-150 mph range. There is no documented proof of the top speed of a production Cerbera 4.5. Top Gear's preproduction Cerbera only went 185 mph. The Viper has been clocked at 185-193 mph.

    And seriously. The Caterham isn't nearly the roadworthy car the Cerbera and Viper are, now is it? Let me know what a 500-mile roadtrip in one feels like. And how weather-proof it is. Warranty? Yeah...you do lose quite a bit whent you're building a TRACK CAR.

    Amateur roadracing? Yeah, take a look at the results from this racing series, which just wrapped up last month:
    www.opentrackchallenge.com

    Spring Mountain
    Viper: 1:47.355
    Lotus Elise: 1:49.026
    Lotus 340R: 1:49.385

    Willow Springs
    Viper: 1:30.111
    Elise: 1:30.597
    340R: 1:34.435

    Streets of Willow
    Viper: 1:29.229
    Elise: 1:27.448
    340R: 1:29.864

    Buttonwillow
    Viper: 2:04.471
    Elise: 2:02.341
    340R: 2:08.410

    Thunderhill
    Viper: 2:02.454
    Elise: N/A
    340R: 2:09.221

    Buttonwillow
    Viper: 1:53.665
    Elise: N/A
    340R: 2:00.307

    Las Vegas Motor Speedway
    Viper: 0:56.147
    Elise: N/A
    340R: 0:56.759

    Now, some things to keep in mind:
    1) The Viper there is running in TOURING class, meaning it's running on street rubber. At Spring Mountain, that Viper was running on Pirelli M+S tires!! And still managed to beat the guy in the Z06, who teaches a driving school there.
    2) The Lotus cars were running in UNLIMITED class, meaning they're allowed extensive engine mods and pure racing slicks. These cars are towed from track to track between events.
    3) Why did the Elise not finish the racing series? Engine trouble.
    "Terry Chen and his co-driver in the Elise had a rough day. His co-driver went off a couple of times, and it also looks he bent valves from a timing belt failure. He says they are out for sure, and they were front runners."

    So, lightweight is important. But it's clearly not everything. When was the last time a Caterham won the 24 Hours of Nurburgring?



    800TT is totally rebuilt? You retard, it's stock below the heads. Bone stock internals. F*uckin' READ the article before you open yer yapper. Anyway, it's putting out 1200 Hp right now, still with stock internals. Imagine what it's capable of once Hennessey opens it up.
     
  14. "I knew a guy that had a viper..."
    LOL!!!!!!!!!!! I wish I had a nickel for everyone of these stories I've heard on these forums. Well, that's good enough proof for gsolinas, so it must be true!!! Muwahahahahaha!!!!
     
  15. LOL<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Your 6-7 tests are all chopped up and broken down, my posts showed everything yours did in a single posts. Let explain it for you since you appear to be a little slow. Showing me a post of a slalom, then a post of a fuel consumption, then a post on a 0-60 is the same as showing a single post where all three and more are included. The difference being in the single post all those tests were done at the same time.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    You really are a dimwit, aren't you? There's a megabyte limit to each post, you can't just upload as big a pic as you want. Go ahead. Try to upload a 4 Mb file. The stats I got for the 360 Modena vs. the Viper ACR were all done on the same day, by the same driver. There was no test of fuel economy. Do you want me to post them all again?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Won’t your dad be upset that you went through his shit like that.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Uh, I don't live with my dad. And do you think he'd leave personal financial papers lying around. I don't know about your dad, but my dad doesn't do that. He's not in the line of business that would have employee stock purchase plans, anyay.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Guibo, let me guess, therealdeal is also me. You’ve adapted quite well to being wrong anyway so you might as well go ahead and make the accusation instead of beating around the bush (sounds pretty curious), grow some balls. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Did I say you were therealdeal? Moron, you're not the only one who's been exposed as having dual accounts with identical ip addresses. Speaking of which, where is notic and jcazz nowadays? They're mysteriously silent.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>But having a big engine is regarded to most (obviously not you guys) a sign of technological weakness.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Then why is the 550 Maranello's engine larger than the 360 Modena? Why don't they just extract more hp from the existing Modena engine. All they would have to do is make it rev higher, wouldn't they? Seems easy enough. In any event, the Maranello's engine is larger than the Modena's, it produces less hp/l, and the Maranello even costs more.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>But I love how you challenged him to drive a Caterham on a 500 mile road trip. You act as if the Viper is an exceptional ride or something. Then again I remember you claiming you’ve never driven one. Yet you defend, defend, defend. When you lose your Viper virginity (hopefully you at least manage to lose that one), make sure your model has the A/C jacked or at least take the RT/10 so you can peal the top off since the cabin overheats almost instantly.<b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    How would you know? You've never driven one yourself. And yet you attack, attack, attack.
    I don't act as if the Viper is an exceptional ride. But as crude as it is, it's still leagues ahead of what a Caterham offers. At least the Viper HAS A/C, among other amenities.
     
  17. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Wow Dweebo you sure know a lot about me, I am Notic and Jcazz LOL, and I’ve never driven a Viper. You are a fool. Jcazz was at least staying with me for a while, to answer your question he went back home,</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Doesn't he have a computer back home? Why haven't we heard from him. It's funny. You get nailed for having the same IP address as him, and then you make up the story that he's staying with you for awhile.
    You've driven a Viper? When and where? Whose was it?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Maybe when you turn 16 Daddy will rent you one so you can do the same. Oh yeah you don’t live with your dad, can’t blame him I’d leave you too, but I’m sure mommy’s new boyfriend will help you out, after all, he has stock options. LOL. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Are you freakin' deaf? My dad doesn't have stock options. Moron. And I think we've already established my age here.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>The 360 does better than the top of the line Viper in more aspects than one and it isn’t even the top of the line Ferrari. Considering the weak slalom it had (leave it to Motortrash, I’ve seen it do better than that a few times in other tests) I’d say the Ferrari did quite well. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Have you seen it outperform the Viper in any other test when both were tested on the same day?
    No one is denying the Ferrari did quite well. But wouldn't you expect that a company that specialized exclusively in exotic performance cars and Formula One racers to make a car that easily dominates one from a company that specializes in family cars, vans, and trucks? I mean, LOL. The Ferrari should've cleaned up in every performance category.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>I did notice though that there wasn’t a cornering test or a top speed test in your long list. Could it be that Motortrash knew that the Ferrari and the Porsche would assrape the competition in cornering and that the Ferrari would win out in top speed.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Why would it think that? The 385-hp Z06 was less than a second slower around Thunderhill in R&T's test. What makes you think the Viper ACR (which has beaten said Z06 on two other occasions at two other tracks by MORE than a second) would be assraped? And the Porsche has been beaten by the Z06 twice, once at that very Thunderhill track in 385-hp form.
    Regarding top speed, MT suspended top speed testing out of respect for Don Schroeder, who was a test driver for C&D and was killed earlier that year in a top speed test. Really. Before you blab, you really should know all the facts.
    If you think I've omitted anything from that test, go and get that article yourself. And come back and apologize once you've seen your error.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>As for the Maranello having a bigger engine, what were they supposed to do, rebuild the Modena? It is a different car and as a result of the bigger engine it does have more top end power than the 360.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Don't the 550 Maranello and 456 basically share the same engine (different states of tune)? Isn't the 456 a different car from the 550? Why would they share the same basic engine?





    Heyyyy...Look what I got in the mail the other day. You might think this belongs to my father.
     
  18. Hmmm. Tough to tell. Uh-oh! I've opened up his mail.
     
  19. He's gonna be PISSED!!!
     
  20. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>The acceleration post also indicated a slight advantage by the Modena. So why did you post that? </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    LOL, you accuse me of posting only one-sided evidence in favor of the Viper, and now you're stupid enough to ask why I post the 3.9-second figure for the 360 Modena? Damn, you really are dumber than you sound aren't you?
    True, the 360 did beat the Viper to 60 by .3 seconds.
    True, the Viper did totally erase this .3 seconds difference to the quarter mile.
    True, the Viper did tack on an additional .06 second differenc in its favor.
    True, the Viper was going some 6 mph FASTER than the Modena at the end of the quarter mile. In dragracing terms, this is a huge difference, and indicates that the Viper is ripping the little Ferrari to little pieces. Indeed, its standing mile time and trap speed reflects the reality: the 360 is only quicker off the line to 60 mph. And that's it. "Steaming by"? Yup, that certainly is accurate.
    So far, I've shown a 193 mph top speed for the Viper. So far, we've only seen about 175 mph for the Modena. True, Auto Motor und Sport's 360F1 went 184. But that same car took 4.8 seconds just to get to 62 mph. Ouch!

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>As for your background Guibo, in your own words…”Bullfekinshit, prove it”!
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    What kind of proof do you want?
     
  21. !!ROTFLMAO!! Guibo, man that's some great shit!!

    Am Car Fan: Almost everyone that agrees with gsolinas usually sounds like this, "FERARRRIS RULZ!!!! AMERICAN CARZ SUX!!!! LOL!!! I DRIVEN VIPER, IT SUX!!! WHEN YOU PUSH THE GAS IT UNDERSTEERS IN TURNS!!! AND IT FEELS LIKE FRONT IS LIFTING SO IT OVERSTEERS!!! FERARRIS IS THE BEST!!!", etc. And if they sound somewhat normal, but sound like him, they are a multiple account of his to back himself up, like jcazz and cornu.

    gsolinas: again, so, why doesn't Ferarri build a 550 GT to compete with the big boys? Also, why did the Ferarri F60 they were testing in Modena catch on fire? If everything we post is biased, unreliable crap, then what makes what you post not biased, unreliable crap?<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. Americans are sometimes...(Part II)

    I don't feel like cycling through numerous 'Last' buttons, only to find it's not the last of the thread at all, so here goes.

    Quote from Mr Vortech
    Hey Guibo what do you mean exactly by "state of tune"?

    I mean that it's perfectly acceptable to compare two sporting automobiles even though they may have different displacements. It's perfectly fair to compare a lazy 60-hp/l 8.0-liter V10 to a high-strung, nearly maxed-out 110-hp/l 3.6-liter V8. Nothing wrong with that.
    In fact, considering that the Ferrari costs about 2X's as much and benefits from decades of Formula One technology and experience (and the fact that it weighs less and is newer), the case can be made that the Viper is the "smaller" car.

    Engine size alone does not determine which car is "smaller". That's a totally lame argument and is a cop-out in making excuses for the fact that the Viper blows the 360 out of the water after the 60 mph mark.

    You are right about displacement. Even Ferrari knows that to increase *reliable, tractable, warrantable* power, increasing hp/l is simply by itself not enough. Displacement has to increase as well. This is a lesson not lost on Porsche, BMW, and many other European marques.
     
  23. #24 gsolinas, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Previously posted:
    Take a hike? For someone who doesn't know jack I've done a good job of discrediting the so called "panel of experts".

    As for that F40 thing. You are right Guibo, it was babied and the Viper was not…LOL. You ignored the fact that it was built in 1987.

    Hey look another test from Motortrash. Keep believing it Guibo, I know it suits you. But I’m staring at a test in R&T where the ACR stopped at 155 feet. And another where it stopped in 156 feet from 60mph. (R&T March 2001, and R&T March 2002). Get some back issues.

    New post:
    And the Viper "blows away" jack shit. See if you were to say that it sometimes edges out the 3.6 liter V8 I'd say, true in some cases it does. But it would probably slam into a wall afterwards based on the braking results I've seen. But even then I know that according to that same R&T (March 2001) the Viper has a 0-60 of 4.4, www.fast-cars.net tested the 360 at 3.9. The top speed shows about a slight advantage to the Modena (185mph ACR to the 189mph 360). The Quarter mile was 12.6 for the ACR while the 360 showed 12.2. The slalom for the Modena was 69 mph while the ACR pulled off 63.6 in a 700 ft slalom. The 0-100 was 9.8 for the Viper while the 360 had 9.7. This Modena came to a complete stop in a mere 117 feet while the ACR managed to stop after 156 feet, both from 60mph. That is some “blow out“. They really taught Ferrari a lesson or two. Hats off Dodge. LOL. Keep up the good work Guibo. I love reading your BS.

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  24. gsolinas:
    Did they test the Viper ACR with ABS brakes? Did they test the 360 Modena at the same time?

    Why don't you go by the test where the 360 Modena and Viper ACR were tested at the same time by the same driver? Because the Modena got the crap beaten out of it.

    Here's a challenge to you:
    Why don't we collect all of the 0-60, 0-100, and quarter miles for both cars, and then average it out. I'll bet the Modena gets creamed like there's no tomorrow? Why is that? Because there's only ONE test I've seen where the Modena does 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. And that one was done by Motor Trend, which you like to call Motortrash.

    And I'm still waiting for the verified 189 mph for that 360 Modena. Where is it?!
     

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