Re: Americans are sometimes...(Part II)

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by MAB062183, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. Take a look at this, from C&D's test results. That's the "baby Viper" vs. the "baby Ferrari" vs. the "top of the line Ferrari" (LOL!).
    Notice that to open up any significant margin over the Viper at speeds over 60 mph, you'll need the F50. But at what cost? Remember that finely tailored, luxurious interior of the 360? You won't get it in the F50. It's GONE. Poof! But don't worry, the consolation is that you need to pony up $560,640 for a 2-year lease on the F50. Assuming you've met Ferrari's stringent requirements.
    But wait, that's not really the "baby Ferrari" at all. The 360 Modena Spider would be a little stain under the Viper's footprint.
     
  2. Hahaha! I see what you're doing. You're cross referencing the numbers from MT (360 Modena), with those of R&T (Viper). Absolute folly.

    What was the exact test date of the Viper ACR by R&T? Can you please scan the Technical Data sheet? Every test by R&T will have this.
     
  3. #28 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>www.fast-cars.net tested the 360 at 3.9. The top speed shows about a slight advantage to the Modena (185mph ACR to the 189mph 360).</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Bvllf*uckingsh*it!! Fast-cars.net does NOT test the cars, moron. Look at the bottom of the link you're looking at:
    http://www.fast-cars.net/thecars/page/?id=118
    "Stat Source: Motor Trend Febuary 2000"

    Motor Trend tested that car, NOT fast-cars.net. And there's no mention of top speed anywhere on that page. Are you pulling this outta your ass again?

    Hmmm...0-60 in 3.9. On the very same day, the Viper ACR did it in 4.2, not 4.4 as you stated.
     
  4. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>The Quarter mile was 12.6 for the ACR while the 360 showed 12.2.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    12.2? That guy really needs to learn how to round off numbers. (12.25 rounds *up* to 12.3, not 12.2). Hmmm...the trap speeds for the 360 Modena at fast-cars.net and the Motor Trend test are identical. Coincidence? Check out the ACR steaming right by.
     
  5. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>The slalom for the Modena was 69 mph while the ACR pulled off 63.6 in a 700 ft slalom.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    69 mph for the Modena. Hey, it's the same in this Motor Trend test, below. Coincidence? Waitaminute...the ACR tested the same day went 71 mph! LOL!!!
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>The 0-100 was 9.8 for the Viper while the 360 had 9.7.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    9.7 for the Modena? Hey, look! In that Motor Trend shootout, the Modena also did 9.7 to 100. Coincidence? Waitaminute, what's this? The ACR tested on that very same day did it in 9.6? Bwahahahaha!!!

    (And this is one of the slowest Vipers ever tested against one of the fastest 360's ever tested, LOL!!!)
     
  7. LOL! Cross referencing to make oneself look better, seems like something 550WOLVES would do! Hmmm...

    Hey gsolinas, did you hear Ferarri is making a 360 GT? Yeah, they plan to re-enter LeMans and FIA GT with it. Also interesting, The 360 GT will compete in the LeMans '03 GT class, with 911 GT3's, sorry no M3 GTR's unless they figure a way back in..., hey wait a minute! The 360 won't even be in the class of the Vipers(GT2)! Maybe a 575 GT could compete in GT2, but then they would have they're asses handed back to them by the Vipers, so they won't.<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>This Modena came to a complete stop in a mere 117 feet while the ACR managed to stop after 156 feet, both from 60mph.

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    117 feet for the Modena? Hey, look. In that MT comparo, the Modena also stopped from 60 in 117 feet. Coincidence? The Viper ACR (without ABS) was ony 4 feet behind, not the huge margin you're talking about.
     
  9. #34 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Hey, look. You forgot a figure that fast-cars.net included, the skidpad numbers. .90g according to http://www.fast-cars.net/thecars/page/?id=118.

    But wait! According to that Motortrash comparo, their 360 Modena ALSO pulled .90g. What's this? The ACR tested at the same time pulled .99g? WTF?!!!
     
  10. And here's one both you and fast-cars.net forgot to mention, the standing mile. The Viper easily squashes the 360 Modena F1. But then again, it had already beaten the 550 Maranello the year before, so what else is new?
    LOL, the Modena coupe can't even dispatch the BMW Z8, a car that got a terrible start off the line in this comparo. Good god, even the old 385-hp Corvette Z06 is over a second quicker and over 8 mph faster.
     
  11. Speaking of GT racing, Chrysler has pulled most of its support for the Viper during much of the last 2 years, focusing instead on NASCAR and the Le Mans campaign. As such, the Corvettes are pretty much having their way. Except in international GT racing, where the Viper took the title (yet againt) last year in FIA GT and the French FFSA GT championship last year. Prodrive made a valiant effort with its 550 Maranello, but came up short, as did Lister. It may be Lister's turn this year. The Larbre and Carsport Holland Vipers are looking pretty strong though.

    Current FIA GT standings after the last weekend's race at Brno:

    1. Lister Storm Racing : 29 pts
    2. Larbre Competition Chereau Viper: 19 pts
    3. Carsport Holland Viper: 15 pts
    4. Paul Belmondo Racing Viper: 14 pts.
    5. BMS Scuderia Italia 550 Maranello: 1 pt



    Wonder if Oreca will team up with the '03 Viper...
     
  12. And back to Mr Vortech's question about "state of tune", take a look at the pic below. These are all kits available from Koenig, a supercharger for the Viper and turbo systems for the F50 and the 360 Modena.

    The F50 upgrade costs €104,200, for an increase of 330 hp over the stock F50's 520 horses. This works out to about €315 for each extra horsepower over stock.

    The 360 Modena upgrade costs €40,000 and gives 200 hp over stock. About €200 for each horsepower over stock.

    The Viper upgrade costs €19,940 and gives 300 hp over stock, if we're going by typical Euro Viper hp ratings (400 hp). This comes out to €66 for each horsepower over stock. If it's the 378-hp Euro Viper, the cost is even less. This is somewhat of an indicator of what the stock engine is putting out vs. what it's capable of. Clearly, getting even more power out of the Viper's V10 is a simpler task than getting that same amount out of other cars whose engines are nearly maxed out already straight from the factory.

    In the US, it's common knowledge that the simplest of bolt-on mods can easily net a 50-hp gain in power on a Viper. Things like lower-restriction intakes ("smooth tubes") and K&N filters (both responsible for at least 10 horses, as seen in the stock Viper ACR), header, lower restriction cat-back exhaust, etc. can see the Viper jump near or into the 500-hp zone.
    Want more? Look to Lingenfelter, or Apex Motorsports, or DLM, or TNT for boring/stoking, roller rockers, longer duration cam, ported heads, upgraded injectors, reprogrammed ECU, heavier duty valvetrain, lighter pistons, etc and you will be seeing 725-777 hp. Naturally aspirated. And with no detriment to the drivability of the car; the bottom-end torque is still there (witness the massive torque of the Koenig Viper kit).
    That Dodge can back such a powerful, stock engine with an available 7-year/100,000-mile warranty is a testament to its durability. In this class of performance, it's virtually unheard of. And if you look at engine failure rates of GTS-R's at Le Mans vs. their Porsche GT2 counterparts, you'll see the bulletproof nature of the engine.
     
  13. WOW...whoever gets to be one of the guys that does all of these extensive tests is one lucky SOB. I would kill for a job like that! ;)<!-- Signature -->
     
  14. Hey Guibo,

    In the prequel to this thread, someone was dissing your automotive education. What is your automotive education, anyway? You sometimes sound like you would be in engineering. And you have evidence for everything. I was just curious how you know what you know. Do you just stay current in your reading, or is there more to it than that?
     
  15. OK, for a little background, here goes.

    The first car that really got me interested in cars at all was the Porsche 928. I know, I know. Some may think it kind of odd, but the fact is, for a little kid like me to see this car when it first came out in the '80s(*), it was quite mesmerizing. Not a lot of people missed it with the passing of the final GTS version, but I was bummed to see that line of cars go.
    At around this time, I started really reading about cars in R&T. Nice pics, good writeups, and a very decent Technical Q&A section. I think my oldest issue might even date back to 1983. C&D and MT would follow later, with better coverage of tuned cars and better head-to-head comparos.
    In the early '90s(*), I picked up my first car, a Datsun 240Z. Great car, and good to tinker with. A simple car to learn the basics of car maintenance: tuneups, oil changes, messing with various points/distributor setings, practicing valve adjustments, tuning and synchronizing dual SU-type Hitachi carbs, etc. I even swapped out the blown stock shocks for some nearly teeth-rattling KYB's. (That was a PITA, I wouldn't do that again today.) Such a good car, I bought another one, which I still have to this day.
    Then, I picked up a BMW 2002 to drive, and later on, yet another one to drive and tinker with.
    Nowadays, I stay current with most of the major US car mags, plus a sprinkling of evo, CAR, Autocar, Bimmer, BMWcar, European Car, Excellence, etc., when there are articles of interest. I also occasionally pick up the great UK classic car mags like Thoroughbred & Classic Cars and Classic & Sports Car. And of course, the Internet is a valuable resource for technical automotive knowledge. I sometimes just read various Porsche, Viper, Ferrari, TVR, and BMW owners' boards just for the hell of it.

    If this background sounds ripe for creating a hp/l junkie, you're right. My favorite cars for much of the '90s was the NSX, 993 Turbo, and M3. But perusing this forum back in early '01 (and I mean, actually *reading* it, understanding it, and not posting prejudicial BS), I found that there's so much more to good engineering than mere hp/l figures.

    *gsolinas, kinda blows your theory about me being 10 years old out of the water, doesn't it?
     
  16. Sorry but that C&D test didn’t indicate Viper dominance at all. Keep crying the price game though. It’s the only thing working in your favour.

    The top speed of the Modena is everywhere I’ve read about the car so that is why it is down there. It is the same as the Viper’s 185 estimated time. Maybe they hit it and maybe they didn’t but I’m not complaining. I just take the numbers and post without whining.

    Obviously it didn’t have ABS. I already said that.

    The acceleration post also indicated a slight advantage by the Modena. So why did you post that? But why are you nitpicking and splitting hairs with me? I didn’t test the car R&T did. Grab yourself a box of tissue and send them an e-mail. By the way, “steaming by”? You call 6 one hundredths of a second steaming right by? And the huge margin I’m talking about came from a magazine not me. Again take it up with them.

    But all this is proving is that those mags are more or less full of shit like I’ve always claimed. Otherwise the testing would be more consistent. Regardless you aren’t proving much. In many cases the Viper still loses even though Motortrash is testing it. And I wouldn’t go calling the Motortrend Viper the slowest Viper test since the R&T test was far worse.

    Hey Meradur, that is what I’ve been saying all along. The Modena is not in the Viper class yet competes so well with it. Even beating to the point that Guibo has to go off on a rant LOL. It might not beat it in everything but even by Guibos posts it does better in many things.

    As for your background Guibo, in your own words…”Bullfekinshit, prove it”!
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  17. <!-- Signature -->
     
  18. I think the reason that people bring up the price of viper so much is because that what makes it so amazing great power great speed so little money its just likes when someone will bring up how ferrari has such nice interior or is hand made does that really matter as far as speed and times go not really but it what makes it so amazing.<!-- Signature -->
     
  19. I'm a bit tall, for a 10-year old. No?
     
  20. Re: Americans are sometimes...what?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Sorry but that C&D test didn’t indicate Viper dominance at all. Keep crying the price game though. It’s the only thing working in your favour.

    The top speed of the Modena is everywhere I’ve read about the car so that is why it is down there. It is the same as the Viper’s 185 estimated time. Maybe they hit it and maybe they didn’t but I’m not complaining. I just take the numbers and post without whining.

    Obviously it didn’t have ABS. I already said that.

    The acceleration post also indicated a slight advantage by the Modena. So why did you post that? But why are you nitpicking and splitting hairs with me? I didn’t test the car R&T did. Grab yourself a box of tissue and send them an e-mail. By the way, “steaming by”? You call 6 one hundredths of a second steaming right by? And the huge margin I’m talking about came from a magazine not me. Again take it up with them.

    But all this is proving is that those mags are more or less full of shit like I’ve always claimed. Otherwise the testing would be more consistent. Regardless you aren’t proving much. In many cases the Viper still loses even though Motortrash is testing it. And I wouldn’t go calling the Motortrend Viper the slowest Viper test since the R&T test was far worse.

    Hey Meradur, that is what I’ve been saying all along. The Modena is not in the Viper class yet competes so well with it. Even beating to the point that Guibo has to go off on a rant LOL. It might not beat it in everything but even by Guibos posts it does better in many things.

    As for your background Guibo, in your own words…”Bullfekinshit, prove it”!
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    From what I've read gsolinas, you're back to your usual BSing. How is he supposed to prove his background to you? Why don't you go ask the FBI how old he is, where he's from, where he lives now, what the color of his hair is, and how he got so smart? It's comments like that which make you seem so immature. I also see that you are still complaining about how "biased" the American magazines are. How the hell is someone supposed to prove to you that your Ferrari isn't as fast as the Viper if every time we show proof you say that the sorce we got it from is biased. It's not possible. Hell, everything that says something good about America is biased in your mind. The Viper pulled out better stats yet you think that we should be crying and that the price is the only thing going for us? You never cease to baffle me with your immature remarks. I'll have fun argueing with you again but I don't have time right now. Don't worry, I'll be back when I have time. By the way, long time no see. How's the mrs.? Good to "see" you again. (i guess). You sure have written a lot of posts since the last time I saw you. You were around 50. You must have made quite a few enemies my now. Haven't seen you say anything nice yet besides when someone says "I agree with gsolinas" which is extremely rare.

    Here's to you amigo!
     
  21. F*uck. For a 10-year-old, I sure seem to be getting away with a lot.

    And for a 10-year-old, I sure do seem to have an unusual interest in old BMW's, no?
     
  22. But enough about me, for now. How about you, gsolinas? Let's see some proof that you are indeed this importer of exotic automobiles. Your emails with me have been, uh, less than conclusive.
     
  23. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>BR>
    Importing forms? Get real, I already said I was posting nothing relating to personal identification. The next time I import, (later this summer) I’ll post the pictures.


    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    gsolinas: i see your hypocracy knows no boundries! why dont you scan a form like the man said and black-out all important info... pics would only prove that you've been to an importer or finally found pics on the net.

    also, you haven't rebuted a single argument, but have only rehashed previous arguments! come on man!

    hats off to Guibo! hey Guibo, email me at [email protected] will ya? i'd like to talk.

    peace<!-- Signature -->
     

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