Re: Camaro haters beware!

Discussion in '2000 Ford Mustang Cobra R' started by Gm4life, Aug 9, 2002.






  1. YOU BIG DUMMY
     
  2. I'm probably going to get nailed for this one but I feel it needs pointing out. OK. What the New Cobra is producing with a supercharged 4.6, Chevrolet is producing with a naturally aspirated 350 plus ten HP more. Don't get me wrong 390 HP and 390 TQ are impressive numbers. Personally, and these are my words, I'd take the Corvette. Not because I am a Ford hater or anything of that sort but Chevrolet is still using old school technology in their vehicles. Look back to '96 and the last years of the 5.0. A friend of mine had a beautiful '94 GT. Manual transmission, convertible, CD, the works. On the first day he had it we went out crusing and I can say from direct experience that the engine had a lot of pull because of the torque but lacked any acceleration because it was only rated at about, correct me please if I'm wrong, 210-215 HP I believe. Which translated to about 180-190 HP at the ground. Also, being a convertible didn't help either.

    Then came the 4.6L. Advanced modualr design, overhead cam, better efficiency, and better emission performance. Also, being 20c.i. small than it's predecessor it still put out the same numbers in terms of power 215 HP and 285 TQ. Not too bad. However, this posed a problem not only to the aftermarket but to Ford itself. The 4.6 was rushed to the Mustang without being fully refined so until '99 their were problems and concerns over the life of the Mustang. Happily it survived.

    Now that that little history is over I can get to my point. All through this Chevrolet was using the same overhead valve technology in the Camaro and Firebird it had used since the dinosaurs ruled the earth becuase, frankly, it still works. Why get rid of something that is proven functional and can stand the test of time? The LT1 and LT4 engines were cranking out numbers in the 280's and 300's respectively. Then came the LS1 and LS6 with about 325 and 350, give or take, respectively. I even own a '96 Firebird Formula. Now the new GT's are giving me a run for my money but still I can pull away at top end. When I say this I should point out that I usually go up against slightly modified cars because I too have modified my car with small upgrades (i.e. intake, exhaust, throttle)

    I have a lot of respect for the Mustang and it's heritage and I love some friendly competition at the track. But I would like Ford to drop the supercharger and try to build a solid engine without power adders that can run with and/or out run the Corvette. That would be an achievement for Ford and Ford lovers everywhere in my book. I don't call that wishful thinking I do believe it's possible. But my preference is GM. That's what I grew up with and thats what I like. But no matter what I love the muscle car in all it's forms.

    Carry on guys
     
  3. it's cudos.
     
  4. Hey Firebird Formula! Have ya run up against an '03 Cobra yet? Just curious as I own one. Nice post BTW. Funny thing is, this is the first Mustang I've owned. The rest were mostly GM and Mopar. I used to sell cars so I got to drive almost everything but I really like this car. Cars are cars man and I love 'em all if they're fine and fast. Yes, even the Euro's and Ri^cebuckets.
     
  5. No, I haven't had the chance yet. I understand their pretty quick, though I haven't seen one in action yet. As I know, from what I have read in Car and Driver, it probably would have my car, as it is now, for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and still have enough left over for a snack later on in the quarter and road track. However, I still have the claim of higher top speed. But then again when will I ever use it? Show me where I can get to 163 and I'll do it.
     
  6. well, i agree with most of that cept for the Chevelle part. I think the 1970 chevelle looked BADASS, but it was FAR from the best muscle car ever. Sure it had the most "official" torque and horsepower, but it weighed like atleast 5000 lbs., thus it couldnt beat say a 1970 Challenger with either a 440 6pak or the mighty HEMI.

    And why in f*** would i prefer the looks of a Firebird/Camaro over a stang? ARE U MAD MAN?!?!? Dood, the stangs since like 88 have looked better than the Camaros. Plus, not to mention, the 67-68 stangs...best looking stangs ever! Wait till the 05 comes out, WAY better looks than even the 67 Camaro.... Hell, the 95-97 Camaros were BUTT UGLY. And in 98, when they switched the front headlights, they looked alot better...but still not better than the stang.
     
  7. I agree with this guy for the most part. Leave it to Chevy to make the best naturally aspirated engines. Naturally aspirated engines are way more impresive than a supercharged. I'd take a Z06 over this anyday. To me this car is just alright. Looks just like most stangs except with a body kit. Kinda sad that they only make about 300 of these cars a year and think they are so special. At least make a rare car that's buff. The Z06 is produced in much larger #'s and are naturally aspirated and 405 hp. Why would you rather have the slower "special" car? I'd rather go faster than have this thing. Plus if you try to mod this thing, chances are the value will go down since stock rarities are worth more stock. So if you buy this car to eat z06's by modding it, that just shows your retarted by buying an even more expensive and slower car just to decrease it's value and prove a point to a smart Z06 owner. Does that make sense? Yes, it makes perfect sense if your a die hard Ford fan, but not if you have common sense. Also to that one guy saying how great the Saleen mustangs are. Yea some of them are fast(NOT Z06 fast, more like 12.6's and 12.7's) but its because they are built by Saleen. Go to Saleenunlimited.com, or straight to the source at saleen.com. Click on any Saleen mustang and then specs and you will see that every performance part in the Mustang is by Saleen and is not associated with Ford. A Saleen Mustang is not a Ford Mustang. So if I throw a chevy engine in a mustang its a Chevy Mustang? That's basically what your saying. Saleen uses the body of the mustang and they even moidfy that too. Pretty much the only thing Saleen uses from Ford is the name Mustang and the little horsey ornimante on the front. Seriously Saleen changes the whole interior with their stuff from leather seats to floor mats, to side skirts, to fascia, to the spoiler, to the hood, everything. Saleen makes there own Mustang and Ford makes there's. Moslar used a Z06 LS6 engine in its photon but that doesn't mean its a chevy, it's a moslar. (Saleen should buy the Mustang nameplate from Ford since they make them better). Saleens are way overpriced though(especially the S7!). Why pay almost $60,000 for a Saleen S351 to be slower then a $52,000 vette? Better yet save up for a Viper.
     
  8. Leave it to Chevy to make the best naturally aspirated engines. Naturally aspirated engines are way more impresive than a supercharged. I'd take a Z06 over this anyday. To me this car is just alright. Looks just like most stangs except with a body kit. Kinda sad that they only make about 300 of these cars a year and think they are so special. At least make a rare car that's buff. The Z06 is produced in much larger #'s and are naturally aspirated and 405 hp. Why would you rather have the slower "special" car? I'd rather go faster than have this thing. Plus if you try to mod this thing, chances are the value will go down since stock rarities are worth more stock. So if you buy this car to eat z06's by modding it, that just shows your retarted by buying an even more expensive and slower car just to decrease it's value and prove a point to a smart Z06 owner. Does that make sense? Yes, it makes perfect sense if your a die hard Ford fan, but not if you have common sense. Also to that one guy saying how great the Saleen mustangs are. Yea some of them are fast(NOT Z06 fast, more like 12.6's and 12.7's) but its because they are built by Saleen. Go to Saleenunlimited.com, or straight to the source at saleen.com. Click on any Saleen mustang and then specs and you will see that every performance part in the Mustang is by Saleen and is not associated with Ford. A Saleen Mustang is not a Ford Mustang. So if I throw a chevy engine in a mustang its a Chevy Mustang? That's basically what your saying. Saleen uses the body of the mustang and they even moidfy that too. Pretty much the only thing Saleen uses from Ford is the name Mustang and the little horsey ornimante on the front. Seriously Saleen changes the whole interior with their stuff from leather seats to floor mats, to side skirts, to fascia, to the spoiler, to the hood, everything. Saleen makes there own Mustang and Ford makes there's. Moslar used a Z06 LS6 engine in its photon but that doesn't mean its a chevy, it's a moslar. (Saleen should buy the Mustang nameplate from Ford since they make them better). Saleens are way overpriced though(especially the S7!). Why pay almost $60,000 for a Saleen S351 to be slower then a $52,000 vette? Better yet save up for a Viper.
     
  9. In defense of the Cobra I think it could use with a few pounds shaved off of it. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Chevy blocks in the Z06 Corvette made of aluminum. I think all LS series engines are aluminum. The block my LT1 is manufactured from is cast iron. Were the '00 Cobra built with an aluminum block instead of a cast iron one then I think the designers would have saved at least a few hundred pounds of weight. That is part of the reason that it should handle better, not like it doesn't handle well now. There is too much weight in the nose and not enough out back. I believe the weight distribution on a '00 Cobra R is about 57/43. Where as the Z06 is more like 53/47. Well balanced for both cars but the Z06 weighs in almost 500lbs. less than the Cobra R. It's no wonder the Z06 can keep up. But realize this is a street legal racing car. No stereo, A/C, or any of those fancy things. Plus, this car is hand built. That's really what your paying for. One last point it has technology that has yet to hit widespread open market (i.e. dual mass-air).

    I think Ford did a good job but limiting it to a production run of only 300 really hurt. It would at least have been nice to see 750 or perhaps 1000. However, budget concerns and price would have been affected as well. Frankly, if I was a car collector and had the money to put down, yes, I would have bought one of these. Modifying it though would be a different story. I had heard a report from 5.0 Mustang Magazine of someone fabricating a supercharger to this car and removing the catalytic converters and pulling something like 200hp or more out of the engine. But that cost a lot of money because no one knew how to adjust the new electronics. For the type of car it is I wouldn't have it for any daily driver. Maybe to the local Sonic in the summer once in a while. For a pure racing machine or something to kick at high speeds through the deserts with, oh yeah. Two things though I would change, though. One the wing. I know it has a purpose but I think, for lack of a better word, its hideous. Second, I would up the gear from a 3.55 to a 3.73. Just give it a little more kick. Just my thoughts personal thoughts on this one.

    Soldier on fellow enthusiasts.
     
  10. ooooo, im gonna have ALOT of fun here....
     
  11. lol, nice post, i like that.

    But the S-281(regular) would get burned as would the supercharged S-281. The starting saleen that would burn a Z06 would be the S-281E. The S-351 was a work of art. I LOVED that car. Too bad they dont make it anymore.
    The SR smoking the hell out of a Z06 is pure logic.
     
  12. Really? The Camaro SS had a faster top speed than ANY mustang? Even say a 67 Shelby GT500? Are you sure?

    The 2003 Cobra not made in 2003? WTF kinda sense does that make?

    Yeah, well, a supercharger isnt my type of thing, but imagine how much bang for yer buck itd be if IT was NA but with the same power. Say you were to put longer connecting rods and hemispherical combustion chambers in the 4.6L Ford 4-valve. You could get similar results as the Z06 but at an even greater discount than before. Ford priced the Cobra pretty good for a car with a supercharger.

    The Z06 produces less power at the wheels? What? Are u frikken serious?

    The Z06 is not faster than all saleen mustangs, by far no. Go to the saleen website, click on Automobiles, then on SR and click on performance. It shows 1/4 times of the SR among many cars, including the Z06.

    You didnt really prove that u knew more than him bout mustangs, lol.
     
  13. Dood, your quote is awesome, totally. But Ford edged out Chevy by using a new engine. It was risky, yes, but it worked. Ford can advertise using a "new!" engine where as Chevy cant. The term "new!" or "new design" will attract customers. I would personally pick a Ford 351 Cleveland over both Ford's 4.6 and Chevy's 5.7 (the 351 is oldschool).
     
  14. Best NA engines, ummm, suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. Dood, any company can make the same type of power out of the same block. All it involves is longer connecting rods, small combustion chambers, camshafts with bigger cam lobes, and maybe even some hallowed out valves.

    About modifying the Cobra R, i GUARANTEE you you can get amazing power out of it by increasing PSI. The people at MM&FF got like 70 extra horses by making a few exhaust mods and increasing supercharger PSI. So sometimes it pays to have a supercharger seeing as how its a fast way of increasing power output.

    "Yea some of them are fast(NOT Z06 fast, more like 12.6's and 12.7's) but its because they are built by Saleen."
    Are you saying that a Z06 can run a 12.5 or better? I doubt it. Im guessing a 12.7 at the best. A Saleen S-351 could probably run a 12.6 if it had better tires (i heard the tires on the Saleens slip too much). And you want good 1/4 mile thats PROVEN? Go to the Saleen website and find the starts for the SR. It burns the Z06.

    "Click on any Saleen mustang and then specs and you will see that every performance part in the Mustang is by Saleen and is not associated with Ford"
    Dood, the engine is exactly the same except for those few parts, i.e. an intercooler, supercharger, crankshaft, pistons, connecting rods, and maybe some valve stuff. Otherwise, its still Ford.

    "Saleens are way overpriced though(especially the S7!). Why pay almost $60,000 for a Saleen S351 to be slower then a $52,000 vette? Better yet save up for a Viper."
    HAHAHA! yer funny. Dood, Saleens arent really what Id call "overpriced" seeing as how they upgrade suspension, brakes, wheels (not necessarily tires, but wheels), interior, and not to mention engine. And the S7 is the wrong car.
     
  15. Nope, yer right. The Z06 block is made of aluminum and i read somewhere it was only 106 lbs.! Must be a small block with huge ass cylinders.

    "Were the '00 Cobra built with an aluminum block instead of a cast iron one then I think the designers would have saved at least a few hundred pounds of weight."
    Well, believe it or not but iron blocks have been proven to be better for handling, atleast on the slalom. The heavier weight gives the car a lower center of gravity. This is noted in the October 03 Issue of MT where they test the Mach 1 on the slalom. Despite having more power and a lighter engine, the Bullitt Mustang ran a faster slalom time (as tested a few years back) because it has a lower center of gravity. So having an iron block isnt all that bad.

    I personally like the wing. Its not "great", but not like those rycer wings that look absurd seeing as how those cars dont even need them.
     
  16. wtf i just wrote out this long ass article, and i cant include "r * c e" in it so the entire damn thing is gone!!!

    #$%#ing assholes!!!

    it was a good one too, i was about to stomp all sorts of ass.

    i'll write it again later.
     
  17. yeah, it happened to me too once. Then i discovered noone can say the "r"-word. Just say ryce or r!ce.
     
  18. you didn't discover anything, you just kept trying to do it until I told you that you can't.
     
  19. i discovered by your telling me, WHATEVER!
     
  20. But chevy does make the best naturally aspirated v8's. Wait till 06 when the 500hp Z06 has the same amount of horsepower as the sc gt.

    "About modifying the Cobra R, i GUARANTEE you you can get amazing power out of it by increasing PSI"

    I Guarantee you are right but the fact remains it will reduce the value of your car. A car that is rare tends to be worth more stock. This is a fact.

    Are you saying that a Z06 can run a 12.5 or better?

    Yes... This has been proven. Perhaps your thinking of the first Z06 of 02 with 385hp. It did high 12's. The new ones do mid 12's. I raced one at Fontana and they ran a 12.4. I talked to the guy afterwards and he said its all stock except a K&N Filter.

    Dood, the engine is exactly the same except for those few parts, i.e. an intercooler, supercharger, crankshaft, pistons, connecting rods, and maybe some valve stuff. Otherwise, its still Ford.

    ...Like I said saleen modifes the engines with all of their own stuff

    HAHAHA! yer funny. Dood, Saleens arent really what Id call "overpriced" seeing as how they upgrade suspension, brakes, wheels (not necessarily tires, but wheels), interior, and not to mention engine. And the S7 is the wrong car.

    I think so. A mustang is not exactly an "exotic" car. They are supposed to be cheap and good bang for the buck. So they make a some suspension changes, brakes, wheels, tires, and engine differences and sell it for a lot of money. I never see saleens on the street anyways so i guess most people also think so.
     
  21. Well, remember that its a 6L vs a 5.4 (might not make much difference, but still. You gotta remember that The Ford GT probably doesnt use the following mods/parts:
    Hemispherical combustion chambers
    beehive valve springs
    hallowed out valves
    longer connecting rods
    bigger cam lobes.
    The major thing is the hemispherical combustion chambers, that'll give it alotta extra power, maybe even make up for the loss of the supercharger, and still in a smaller engine than the Vette.

    And the 2003 Vettes got 385 AT THE WHEELS. Not 385 at the crank.

    Actually, I see a decent number of Saleens. I see more Z06s, but I still see alot of Saleens. I live a block away from someone who owns a Saleen, lol. And of course the price will be higher. Ya think Saleen plans on LOSING money?
     
  22. This damn thing won't let me say Gap with a J.
     
  23. Thats stupid, like if your talking about an Uncle Ben's Ryce bowl, you cant do it.
     
  24. It wont? My old forum sig said "Gap with a J".
     
  25. Yea it just did that to me recently. Oh Well.
     

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